Post release bugs?

[rjshae]

There was an interesting concern raised in this article on games.on.net. Despite the QS from the Oblivion team and the beta testing we know they'll have from the higher end contributors, it seems almost inevitable that a new game will be released with at least a few high impact bugs. What I am wondering is how much post-release support we'll be able to expect in terms of addressing these issues? If the game is a financial success beyond the KS income, then such support seems likely. But I'm less sure about the case where the game experiences only light sales in the non-KS market. Will it get sidelined at that point?

 

What do you think?

[Labadal]

With enough bug spray, they'll get it fixed in no time.

[rjshae]

With enough bug spray, they'll get it fixed in no time.

What brand do you use? I'd love to have some of that for some of the clunky crud software we get stuck with at the office.

[Humanoid]

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, they *have* to make an expansion, we paid for it already.

 

So no worries, be happ(il)y (bugfree)...

[Ieo]

Well, they *have* to make an expansion, we paid for it already.

 

So no worries, be happ(il)y (bugfree)...

 

Actually, we didn't pay for it already. All KS funds are supposed to go to the base PE game proper, and the expansion is supposed to be developed with post-ship funds. At least that was the last I heard from somewhere... This, I think, was to separate the expansion from the bad feelings about "day one DLC" where stuff is actually cut from a base game to be resold later.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Ieo

[metacontent]

But isn't this a game Obsidion has essentially already done before several times, and haven't they also hired extra people who have also made this type of gave several times before, and in the past done a good job with it?

 

And isn't this a relatively (in terms of todays technology) an easy style of game to make?

 

There are always bugs, but I would be quite surprised if it didn't ship with plenty of polish.

Edited October 23, 2012 by metacontent

[Ieo]

But isn't this a game Obsidion has essentially already done before several times, and haven't they also hired extra people who have also made this type of gave several times before, and in the past done a good job with it?

 

And isn't this a relatively (in terms of todays technology) an easy style of game to make?

 

There are always bugs, but I would be quite surprised if it didn't ship with plenty of polish.

 

Well, they are using new tech. While they're ignoring elements that create substantial debugging complexity (e.g. multiplayer), this is still the first time they've used Unity.

[metacontent]

But isn't this a game Obsidion has essentially already done before several times, and haven't they also hired extra people who have also made this type of gave several times before, and in the past done a good job with it?

 

And isn't this a relatively (in terms of todays technology) an easy style of game to make?

 

There are always bugs, but I would be quite surprised if it didn't ship with plenty of polish.

 

Well, they are using new tech. While they're ignoring elements that create substantial debugging complexity (e.g. multiplayer), this is still the first time they've used Unity.

 

I see, I hadn't considered that. I still think with all of their experience, not just as game developers, but particularly with this style of game, that despite the new tech they will do a good job.

 

Sorry, I'm clearly being a fan boy, I'll show myself out.

[eselle28]

I'm sure they'll provide support and patching. They already have an expansion in the works, and from what it sounds like, they're hoping to turn this into a franchise and make other games in this setting. Do you think they're foolish enough to risk the goodwill they've earned with their Kickstarter by releasing a product and then not fixing criticalbugs? This is the sort of niche product where fan happiness and word of mouth are crucial, and there's no third party to point fingers at. I'm pretty confident they'll do right by their customers.

[lordgizka]

As I understand it, Obsidian doesn't actually have an in-house QA department. So, as it is good practice with any RPG games, I'll just wait a bit after release. A month, maybe. I still remember what Dragon Age games were bug-wise. And they had massive funds to QA the damn games. I'm not terribly optimistic, basically.

Edited October 23, 2012 by lordgizka

[Super_Cat]

I think usually the publisher is in charge of quality assurance, so Obsidian might not be entirely at fault for past buggy releases. However since Obsidian is self publishing this time they will have to hire and pay all the QA testers themselves.

 

Since they seem very dedicated to the success of this product so I'm sure they will take QA seriously and have a lot of post-release support. After all, with the Kickstarter funds coming from the fans, they are pretty much risking their reputation.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Super_Cat

[Jojobobo]

They've said in an update or interview somewhere they'll do patches if they're needed, I can't for the life of me remember where now though. In any case, there's no need to worry.

[Rosveen]

"It’s not that controversial to say that Obsidian is a name almost synonymous with rushed or buggy games. KotOR II, Fallout: New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Neverwinter Nights 2 all featured a number of bugs on launch, prompting many gamers to question whether the company ever did any kind of QA."

 

For the thousandth time: the publisher is responsible for QA, not the developer. And "rushed"? Who decides when to release the game? That's right, the publisher.

 

People at Obsidian know their reputation. They realize that if this game turns out buggy/incomplete/broken in any shape or form, they'll be the ones to blame. I believe they'll take it seriously.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Rosveen

[Justinian]

Bugginess was one of my (only) initial concerns when the project was announced. Then Feargus on the NWN podcast reassured everyone that polish was one of the key focuses going in.

 

With no publisher pressure and the wide beta testing, I could see this following on from DS3 as being another polished Obsidian game.

 

I just hope they actually allocate that extra time at the end to QA aggressively. I'm sure most of us wouldn't mind at all if they took an extra 6 months just to make sure the finished game was the best they could make.

[Hassat Hunter]

Actually, we didn't pay for it already.

Wrong interpretation of my words .

I meant most (higher tier or addon) already put down money to get the expansion. So they obviously need to make one, since we paid for it.

It doesn't have to do with their 'using profits for the x-pack' money...

And isn't this a relatively (in terms of todays technology) an easy style of game to make?

RPG's with many quests, multiple pathways and resolutions and complicated combat is NEVER easy to make.

It still is a lot harder to QA than, say, Call of Duty.

 

So while I expect OE to ship the game best and bugfree as they can, thinking it'll have no bugs (actually, that's true for any software) will be too positive thinking.

As I understand it, Obsidian doesn't actually have an in-house QA department.

They actually do now.

Not hitting the same stone twice and all.

 

And seeing DS3 actually got a reputation as being bug-free, I don't doubt without publisher pushing the date and throwing the ball at QA (I am looking at you, LA) it should be as bugfree as an RPG on release can be...

[Rosveen]

Actually, we didn't pay for it already.

Wrong interpretation of my words .

I meant most (higher tier or addon) already put down money to get the expansion. So they obviously need to make one, since we paid for it.

It doesn't have to do with their 'using profits for the x-pack' money...

You didn't pay for it. You're receiving it for free if you pledged more than $XX (don't remember now) or added $20 to a lower pledge.

Thing is, they're bound by the Kickstarter rules to deliver all pledge rewards. So if they promised an expansion pack (be it free or not), they need to make one.

[Hassat Hunter]

I'm pretty sure I added $20 for the x-pack, and then when the survey gets around I'm going to state it was for the expansion.

 

How much more "paying for something" it can get, I have no idea.

That I pay $20 to get something free ("so free it costs $20!")... well, that just makes no sense...

Edited October 23, 2012 by Hassat Hunter

[jivex5k]

Your not really paying for the items, they are just rewards that could possibly go unfulfilled.

That's the risk in Kickstarter, you might not get what you were promised/expected/wanted.

 

A lot of people may have felt their contribution was a preorder or something along that line.

In actuality, their contribution is a statement of their trust in Obsidian to deliver a product based on their pitch.

 

Regardless, this is way off topic.

 

In regards to the post release bugs, they're are bound to be some. Especially in a game with so many choices and moving parts.

However, the community support seems pretty invested already in this game and I can only see it increasing over time.

 

Coupled with the private beta we should hopefully eliminate a lot of bugs as a community before it goes gold.

And there's always a possibility of a public beta, but I don't see that likely in this case for some reason, just my gut.

 

A benefit to this game being a single player cRPG is the inclusion of a console to input commands. While not ideal, these often can save otherwise doomed character progression.

 

TLDR: It's a cRPG, it'll have a lot of community support and a console, we'll get through the rough times!

[Hassat Hunter]

Your not really paying for the items, they are just rewards that could possibly go unfulfilled.

That may be true for the tiers... not so much the addons.

 

Unless people where NOT paying $10 for playing cards near the end. And I just imagined that...

[Daulmakan]

Well, they *have* to make an expansion, we paid for it already.

So no worries, be happ(il)y (bugfree)...

Actually, we didn't pay for it already. All KS funds are supposed to go to the base PE game proper, and the expansion is supposed to be developed with post-ship funds. At least that was the last I heard from somewhere... This, I think, was to separate the expansion from the bad feelings about "day one DLC" where stuff is actually cut from a base game to be resold later.

From the Kickstarter page:

 

New Add-On

 

Due to popular demand and for a limited time, we are offering the ability to add our first expansion pack, due out approximately six months after Project Eternity ships. Any money contributed to add-on the expansion now will be used to make the main game larger. The expansion budget is not being created by money from this Kickstarter.

 

I believe you're both correct, you're just saying different things. The ones that got the expansion add on, they paid for the right to have it when it's out (Hassat Hunter), they did not pay it in the sense of directly funding it/covering its cost like a "normal" expansion buying process would've gone (Ieo).