Anti-Dragon Age 2?

[entrerix]

I do agree that games should cut out the bull**** so you can sit down and just play the thing when you want to.

 

Want to play Zelda: Skyward Sword? Zelda: TP? Zelda: Wind Waker? Better not, there's like 30+ minutes of forced tutorial and cinema before you get your bloody sword.

 

Want to play OoT or Majora's Mask? Sure, you're already playing the game after the first, relatively short cutscene that is usually skippable.

 

This is what's wrong with "cinematic" games.

 

i like this post, its one of the things that is completely terrible about most modern jrpgs too. FF7 you are fighting enemies within a minute of starting the game, learning quickly as you go, and the tutorial area that opens up after the first couple hours is completely optional.

 

FF13... wow, no.

[IcyDeadPeople]

I do agree that games should cut out the bull**** so you can sit down and just play the thing when you want to.

 

Want to play Zelda: Skyward Sword? Zelda: TP? Zelda: Wind Waker? Better not, there's like 30+ minutes of forced tutorial and cinema before you get your bloody sword.

 

Thank you! Long, unskippable cut scenes kills any game's replay value for me. I've even purchased a couple games on Steam that started out with super long cutscenes and QTEs etc., and it was so annoying I thought, "Why bother with this crap?," uninstalled and never played the game.

 

I don't buy games in order to sit around passively watching a movie, I want to spend more time actually playing the game.

Edited December 1, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[anubite]

I was going to suggest to you that you try KOTOR2 with the restoration patch, if you liked KOTOR1, though... well, it doesn't have all that much replay value. The main issue being the first zone. I mean, you get right into the action in KOTOR2, there isn't that much of a tutorial, but Peragus Mining Facility is like a psuedo-horror level with no replay value and it moves very slowly, making for an awful barrier of entry for replay. But then again, Peragus is about as bad as Irenicus' laboratory so maybe that's just the general design flaw in most RPGs - the first zone is always a chore to slog through.

 

DA2 is surprisingly easy for replay. You can skip through most of the dialogue you've already heard and you're always fighting things, at least. Though, this is more to its detriment after about five minutes, when you've exhausted the game's entire depth with about three or four encounters, two of which being straight-up ambushes.

 

Not that I'm advocating for games putting you constantly in the thick of combat or action. That can be mind-numbing and exhausting. Vary activity for players to do, but... don't make us passive. That's the main thing. If you're not being challenged, if there's no thinking in involved, if you're passive... then that area of the game has a large issue.

Edited December 1, 2012 by anubite

[IcyDeadPeople]

I was going to suggest to you that you try KOTOR2 with the restoration patch, if you liked KOTOR1, though... well, it doesn't have all that much replay value. The main issue being the first zone. I mean, you get right into the action in KOTOR2, there isn't that much of a tutorial, but Peragus Mining Facility is like a psuedo-horror level with no replay value and it moves very slowly, making for an awful barrier of entry for replay. But then again, Peragus is about as bad as Irenicus' laboratory so maybe that's just the general design flaw in most RPGs - the first zone is always a chore to slog through.

 

DA2 is surprisingly easy for replay. You can skip through most of the dialogue you've already heard and you're always fighting things, at least. Though, this is more to its detriment after about five minutes, when you've exhausted the game's entire depth with about three or four encounters, two of which being straight-up ambushes.

 

Not that I'm advocating for games putting you constantly in the thick of combat or action. That can be mind-numbing and exhausting. Vary activity for players to do, but... don't make us passive. That's the main thing. If you're not being challenged, if there's no thinking in involved, if you're passive... then that area of the game has a large issue.

 

Loved KOTOR2, played it only once and haven't played KOTOR1 or tried KOTOR2 with mods yet, although I bought it recently on Steam, so I look forward to trying the restoration patch.

 

I played Dragon Age 2 twice, never finished the game, but I had to restart after I got about 75% through in order to help beta test one of the patches. It's great that you can skip the cutscenes. However, the replay value was killed by the fact that there were only three class options and no other races beside Human, no alternate origin stories, no crafting in the game, no joinable factions, crappy side quests, recycled environments, etc.

[alanschu]

I was going to suggest to you that you try KOTOR2 with the restoration patch

 

I actually haven't played this yet. I don't know where my KOTOR 2 discs are, but I did pick it up off Steam for dirt cheap a few days ago. Does anyone know if it will work with the Steam version?

[Humanoid]

Yep, indeed it's easier.

[Deraldin]

I was going to suggest to you that you try KOTOR2 with the restoration patch

 

I actually haven't played this yet. I don't know where my KOTOR 2 discs are, but I did pick it up off Steam for dirt cheap a few days ago. Does anyone know if it will work with the Steam version?

 

Should work just fine from what I've seen.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Humanoid.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Deraldin

[alanschu]

Humanoid gets the like. Where as you have failed me for the last time, Admiral.

[Majek]

No exploding bodies please.

 

Hmm maybe i should replay KOTOR 2 too. Never had any problems with Peragus myself, same goes for Irenicus's dungeon.

And because i haven't played normal Kotor 2 in 7 years, are there any good looking lightsabers in the normal game? Since USM isn't compatible with restoration project. :/

[Hassat Hunter]

If you *really* hate Peragus, there is always the Skip Peragus mod too...

[Gorth]

I might have to check out that no-peragus thing. Does it work with TSLRCM?

[GhostofAnakin]

Kirkwall should have been how big Denerim was. Unfortunately, there should have been much more than Kirkwall and some outlying sections in DA2 as well.

 

Also, Isabella's party banter is the most amusing no matter who else is in the party.

[GhostofAnakin]

I just realized I butchered my first sentence. I meant that Denerim in DA:O should have been the size of Kirkwall in DA2. Kirkwall, with it's various areas, just seems a lot bigger than Denerim was. DA2's issues arise when you realize there's not really anywhere else other than Kirkwall to visit. DA:O had a bunch of other places of decent size to travel to.

[Hurlshort]

Agreed, when I reached Denerim, which was built up as a big deal, it was a huge letdown. It was empty and super tiny.

[Serrano]

I think personally I side with convenience over grandure, walking all the way there and back is one of my most hated activities in RPGs.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Serrano

[Azure79]

My favorite RPG city has always been Baldur's Gate. I don't think anything has come close the capturing that 'wow I'm in a city' feel.

 

Oh wait, Sigil was also great.

[Hurlshort]

I think personally I side with convenience over grandure, walking all the way there and back is one of my most hated activities in RPGs.

 

Baldur's Gate was pretty easy to get around, but it still had a sense of being a city. Denerim was a market with four merchants and a few houses.

[Volourn]

Athkatla was a better city than Baldur's Gate. It felt a lot more alvie, and the npcs and quests had more depth. there was a lot more mystery and happenings in Athkata. Between the Cowled wizards, and the two thieves guilds lots was happening.

 

And, yup, Kirkwall is vastly superior to denerim.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Volourn

[Cultist]

DA2 got only Kirkwall, Denerim was one of the few locations, we got Orzzammar, Redcliffe and Lothering. Could not compete with Baldur's Gate, but still filled with quests and miniquests. And encounters were actually more diverse than another group of paratrooping clones.

[anubite]

DA:O has a lot of hubs

 

Denerim

Ogrimm-err-Orzimmar

Radcliffe

Campfire

Mage Tower/Docks

Dalish Camp

 

DA:O simply has a Dalish Camp and Kirkwall, there aren't any 'civil' areas to explore besides those two.

 

Large city-esque locations are expensive to render in games. Baldur's Gate/2 perhaps has spoiled us, it's comparatively easy to render large cities with isometric design.

 

I do like the style DA:O/Kirkwall approach cities though. Generally speaking, you have X unique locations within a city and travel to them via a map. It's cheap and efficient, than rendering a whole bunch of useless space. Ideally though, Denerim/Kirkwall should have had at least 50% more locations to go to, considering how most of the city locations reused textures/zones anyway. This is especially true of Kirkwall - DA2 should have been more about Kirkwall, and I think that's a good design for a game, but instead, it was mostly about caves and blood mage warehouses.

 

Skyrim for me was a massive letdown, because Obsidian had several huge city spaces to explore (and Skyrim had like two to three hovels per city district of only four major cities). I guess I find exploring cities to be much more interesting than caves or forests or beaches - but perhaps that is because cities are easier to make interesting, because you generally find civil enemies in cities you can discuss things with before you murder them.

[Hurlshort]

Actually I thought the Dwarf city in DA1 was a lot better than Denerim. It felt fairly massive.

[anubite]

It is - I mean, barring the end-game areas of Denerim. The Dwarf City has only "unique" areas to it plus the deep roads. Denerim has the square, the pearl and then you have the same "back alley" zone repeated around 5 times.

[Nepenthe]

Actually I thought the Dwarf city in DA1 was a lot better than Denerim. It felt fairly massive.

I was under the impression that Denerim wasn't even supposed to be that big, they're just a fairly minor kingdom. The opposite for Orzammar.

[Cultist]

Kirkwall area was massive. The problem is that it's huge areas were completely empty and dead.

[Nonek]

It wasn't just the areas of Orzammar that were superior to me, but the fact that Criers stood on the street corners, many dwarven phrases were used during conversations and there was a lively vibrant society represented independent of the protagonist. The culture of the dwarves was well represented, and distinctive whereas the rest of Dragon Age was, for all intents and purposes the usual rennaisance fair simulation, without any distinct cultural mores being shown only told of in the journal.

 

The Qunari and dwarven nations were the only things that really intrigued me within the entire setting, the fade might have been interesting if if was more than just a blurry set of levels, but it didn't take advantage of the premise and so like the rest was fun for a while but in the end dull piffle.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Nonek