Question regarding development costs?

[DemonKing]

I was wondering how much Planescape Torment and IWD 1&2 cost to make and if it was anywhere close to the $4million raised for Project Eternity.

 

Obviously 10 years have past since the last of those games were released but I was just trying to get a feel for exactly how much could realistically be achieved with $4million.

[Leferd]

Feargus was already asked this but he's under an NDA. My guess is maybe under $6 million. Relatively small teams with truncated development times minus inflation + overhead and licensing and marketing. Of course I have no basis for this.

[eimatshya]

According to the talk that Tim Cain gave on the development of Fallout 1 (posted on Obsidian's Facebook page), that game cost around $3 million dollars (although that was in the mid 90s). I think they had to build their own engine for that game, however, so that would push the costs up. Also, the folks at Obsidian have lots of experience making this sort of game, so that increased familiarity should help keep costs down for them.

[Mrakvampire]

Don't expect that Obsidian will create this game only with funds raised by kickstarter. I'm 1000% sure that they will use something from this list:

1. Their own money reserves

2. They will go to publisher right now with 'Look, we have a support' and get money from them

3. They can go to other independent investors

4. Bhaal, Lord of Murder with give 100000 gold pieces.

[nikolokolus]

Don't expect that Obsidian will create this game only with funds raised by kickstarter. I'm 1000% sure that they will use something from this list:

1. Their own money reserves

2. They will go to publisher right now with 'Look, we have a support' and get money from them

3. They can go to other independent investors

4. Bhaal, Lord of Murder with give 100000 gold pieces.

 

1. Unlikely, they just went through some layoffs last year

2. Not a chance. Why go to a publisher when they will want exclusive rights to the IP they want to create. KS was used because publishers didn't want a small potatoes, PC only game.

3. Perhaps ...

4. Derp.

[Mrakvampire]

1. Unlikely, they just went through some layoffs last year

 

Maybe, but layoffs doesn't mean lack of financial reserves - just negative balance.

 

2. Not a chance. Why go to a publisher when they will want exclusive rights to the IP they want to create. KS was used because publishers didn't want a small potatoes, PC only game.

 

Publishers can work with a model that exclusive rights to the IP will be in Obsidian's hands. They can work for a % from sales.

Btw there are different publishers out there. Some are smaller, some are bigger.

[Pshaw]

Unless somebody came out and said the numbers we'll never really know for sure. I believe the average costs for a video game was around 1million or so when they were released. Which is probably why the initial goal for the kickstarter was 1.1mil. I know it was said that for Baldurs Gate enchanced edition to be considered a success it would need to sell 200k units, which is 4million, and they already had a blueprint to follow in remaking it. Granted that doesn't take into account the retailers cut or the publishers cut and the fact that they want make a profit not just break even to be a success. So after all of that I'd say the cost of enhancing BG was probably around 1-2million.

 

So I'd say to make a game just like Baldurs Gate I'd imagine 1million is near the mark for minimum costs. However I'm pretty sure we're going to be seeing higher graphic fidelity than the Baldurs Gate series which does drive up costs. Keep in mind that Dragon Age 2 cost around 40million to develop and that game certainly cut a lot of corners. 4 Million is a pretty modest budget.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pshaw

[DemonKing]

Keep in mind that Dragon Age 2 cost around 40million to develop and that game certainly cut a lot of corners. 4 Million is a pretty modest budget.

 

I can't believe they spent $40million making the steaming pile of excrement that was DA2 - they were working with an existing engine and only really had to develop the story/dialog plus some new art and sound assets. If it really cost $40 million to make Bioware are in more trouble than I thought.

 

Well, it will be interesting to see what Obsidian can produce for 4 million (particularly considering a substantial portion of that is already committed to making two major cities and a megadungeon).

[UncleBourbon]

Keep in mind that Dragon Age 2 cost around 40million to develop and that game certainly cut a lot of corners. 4 Million is a pretty modest budget.

 

I can't believe they spent $40million making the steaming pile of excrement that was DA2 - they were working with an existing engine and only really had to develop the story/dialog plus some new art and sound assets. If it really cost $40 million to make Bioware are in more trouble than I thought.

 

Well, it will be interesting to see what Obsidian can produce for 4 million (particularly considering a substantial portion of that is already committed to making two major cities and a megadungeon).

 

I would assume that the 3D high-quality graphics they used, as well as the console licensing issues and such contributed to the costs... And I wonder if advertising is included in the $40 million. That said, a tenth of that does seem kind of low. But I'm pretty sure the obsidian team are masters of the infinity engine, and the comment about coming up with some more funding - either through equity or investment - is possible. Especially as the project shapes up and assumedly become a very promising, demanded product.

[scipioafricanus]

Hah ha..Demon King, glad to see you weren't a fan of Dragon's Age, actually I think I gave up at number one, the whole 3D run through rts combat blah blah left me cold. Skyrim was a lot better, never completed it but did put in 100 plus hours of enjoyment, so consider that value for money. But I CAN'T WAIT for a return to old style isometric partying with a view of your whole party and options to control your whole party in combat. I guess for a lot of us older gamers (I'm 42), we grew up with this. I still remember playing I think Might and magic (or something) in 1999, with this kick ass Monk, called Monki rather imaginatively, and some other great characters, and the thrill when Monki did an attack and hit like serveral times for D1-60 damage against multiple opponents. That is what i am looking forward to. Real combat and not just fevered slashing with a sword like in Skyrim/Dragon's Age.

[RaccoonTOF]

But I'm pretty sure the obsidian team are masters of the infinity engine

 

Just thought I'd point out they they are not actually using the Infinity engine for P:E - that is going to be the inspiration for the style, but not the actual engine used for the game. Same deal with game mechanics - it will be entirely their own game system, not any existing ruleset that is just altered for their world.

[BSoda]

1. The already have an engine (Unity)

2. They already have a lot of tools (e.g. for managing dialogue)

3. There is no publisher taking its (huge) cut out of the later earnings (so they can throw some of their own money in, if needs be)

 

4 Million will be enough to make a BG2 like (in scope) game, imo.

[BruceVC]

1. Unlikely, they just went through some layoffs last year

 

Maybe, but layoffs doesn't mean lack of financial reserves - just negative balance.

 

2. Not a chance. Why go to a publisher when they will want exclusive rights to the IP they want to create. KS was used because publishers didn't want a small potatoes, PC only game.

 

Publishers can work with a model that exclusive rights to the IP will be in Obsidian's hands. They can work for a % from sales.

Btw there are different publishers out there. Some are smaller, some are bigger.

 

Another important point is that in the past Publishers have only gained the IP of Developers because the Dev's had no bargaining power. They had to use the Publishers and agree to there demands as they needed there investment. Obsidian with PE is not that dependant, they have generated a large amount of money that could fund the game on there own. But they could still utilize a Publisher, they would keep the IP and the Publisher could earn a portion of revenue on sales

Edited October 19, 2012 by BruceVC

[metacontent]

They are sure to get back any money they spend when it comes time to actually sell the finished game.

 

Sure a lot of people who would buy such a game have already done so through kickstarter, but I believe that this kickstarter publicity has had the added effect (besides 4 million dollars) that a lot of people who might not have take such a game seriously, will give it a shot when the game is finished and ready to be sold to the public.

 

So sure, I could imagine the possibility that Obsidian goes over budget with PE and has to dip into their own pockets to get the game finished and sold, but I'm not worried, I think they will make it all back and then some.

 

edit: Then again, if it seriously flops this could break the company. (knock on wood)

Edited October 19, 2012 by metacontent

[Althernai]

Another important point is that in the past Publishers have only gained the IP of Developers because the Dev's had no bargaining power. They had to use the Publishers and agree to there demands as they needed there investment. Obsidian with PE is not that dependant, they have generated a large amount of money that could fund the game on there own. But they could still utilize a Publisher, they would keep the IP and the Publisher could earn a portion of revenue on sales

They could, but why would they? They have collected $4.16M of which roughly $3.5M will go towards developing the game (the rest goes to Kickstarter, Amazon, Paypal and towards making the other rewards and add-ons). This is roughly of the same order as any of the Infinity Engine games. Given that the latter were state-of-the-art when they were made, I don't see why they need more than that.

 

Regarding modern games costing significantly more: yes, they do... but for reasons that do not affect Project Eternity. In this case, Obsidian does not have to deal with console manufacturers (it's $40K just to deploy a patch) and they start with a relatively cheap engine ($1.5K/developer) rather than trying to make their own and paying for the middleware or paying for a state-of-the-art 3D one. They're also not blowing their money on stuff like voice acting. I could understand the idea of going to a publisher if they just barely managed to raise $1.1M, but with three times as much, it doesn't make any sense.

[Hassat Hunter]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

So, I don't expect that to happen...

[Mrakvampire]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

[Piccolo]

They were confident in their ability to deliver a worthy successor to the IE games with just $1.1m, so that should put things in perspective a bit.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

 

The whole reason people are excited about this apparent Kickstarter Revolution in game development is that it means the developers are not beholden to anything but their own creativity. Aside from the IP issue, there are no publishers in this model to come and tell them how to make their game. Neither is anyone in a position to withhold funding if they don't like the direction the game is taking, or if they find it doesn't have enough 'mass market appeal.'

 

They have their funding. The sky (or...well, the budget) is the limit as to what they do with it. If they add a publisher into the mix, I suspect it will generate ill-will, as it sabotages the whole idea of what this new model can be.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Death Machine Miyagi

[Morality Games]

I was wondering how much Planescape Torment and IWD 1&2 cost to make and if it was anywhere close to the $4million raised for Project Eternity.

 

Obviously 10 years have past since the last of those games were released but I was just trying to get a feel for exactly how much could realistically be achieved with $4million.

 

The average salary in the gaming industry is $79,000.

 

They are talking about employing 20 or so people on this project.

 

Development is going to span 18 or so months.

 

That's $2,370,000. They have upwards $4,000,000.

 

I think they'll be fine.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Morality Games

[rjshae]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

Yep. We've already paid for a game, so it's unclear how this is a "betrayal". If the goal is to turn this into a series, then Obsidian will be invested in the game.

[nikolokolus]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

I don't think you're far off the mark ... if it ever became public knowledge there would be some backlash.

 

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

 

You might not be alone, but I suspect you are in the minority of people who actually backed the game.

Edited October 20, 2012 by nikolokolus

[AwesomeOcelot]

Also, it would kinda betray all of us if we gave money and they still gave their sould away to a publisher.

 

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

 

Reason #1 They said the exact opposite. Obsidian said that they had been approached to start a KickStarter by a publisher, and said they didn't think that made sense to use their reputation to get crowd funding, and then give royalties to a publisher.

 

Reason #2 They said that the game would be better without publishers.

 

Reason #3 Most publishers are full of jerks. There's stories of constant meddling, but quick time events exist, therefore we must assume publishers are evil. I call it "The gaming problem of evil".

 

Reason #4 I believe IP should be controlled by the creators, and royalties should go to the creators, that's why I pledged so that could happen.

[Hassat Hunter]

Since when getting additional funding = betrayal of fans? Fans want great game, and for me doesn't matter how Obsidian will get funding for this game if needed.

We paid for them to fund a publisher-free game. I would feel VERY betrayed. And I am sure many with me. I suppose if you're fine with that though you have a different understanding of Kickstarters function than the rest of us.

 

It does if that means they get their money with a noose and a set of set objectives/restrictions and demands.

Say, for example, OE sells out to EA. They demand multiplayer. It has to be required to get the most out of your SP-experience (otherwise less MP-pass sales of second hand sales). They also have a few objections to the mature story which then has to be trimmed. Last they want the IP so if OE wants to make sequels they need EA's permission.

Anyone who thinks that's great, raise their hand now.

Yep. We've already paid for a game, so it's unclear how this is a "betrayal". If the goal is to turn this into a series, then Obsidian will be invested in the game.

We paid for them to develop the game publisher-free. If they wanted a publisher, they should have asked them instead. It lead to debacles like KOTOR2's rush, AP being stored for half-a-year without work being done, scrapping of the Alien RPG. You want (need?) more examples?

This is the first time OE can really show what they can do, without shackles, without publisher breathing in their neck. If they sign up to a publisher, even if just for the money, there will be hell in the forums. Seriously... I don't think OE can do anything that will damage their rep and loose their fanbase more. It will most probably end Obsidian Entertainment. Fortunately they realise that.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Hassat Hunter