good and bad from Arcanum

[AgentOrange]

Map stuff- I actually liked the "connect the dot" method, since it allowed you to create circuitous paths that otherwise would have been difficult to accomplish in a normal RPG- I mean, you could literally make your party go through a specific door. It just gave more flexibility. And as hormalakh mentioned, you were forced to actually explore and find things. I actually LIKED having to search around for stuff, because that is what you really do when you're looking for things. "Wait, did I take the first or second left after the 4-way?", "Damn, all these houses are some sort of beige color!", "She said it was right near the monument, but I'm not seeing it!" I very much dislike being spoon fed my directions, like I'm wearing a Tom-Tom in the game...

 

I don't see how having an overhead, static map of the city would be being "spoon fed directions"...

[Starwars]

I'm replaying the game at the moment.

 

Something I really love is the main quest actually. The story is not amazing per say but I love how much investigation is incorporated into it. You're researching the past to solve the mysteries of today, visiting the Hall of Records to locate individuals etc. Sometimes it feels like a detective story which is fantastic I think. Especially since the game is still a twist on the ancient evil and chosen one things. But you're not gathering allies, raising armies and other rubbish. Nope, you are investigating. I love that about it. It also doesn't shove you in the direction you need to go. The main story is pretty linear with many "story-points" so to speak that you have to go through but the game really doesn't push you along which is rather refreshing.

 

I'd prefer the local maps to be a bit more zoomed out to have the oversight. But I sure wouldn't be opposed to having a waypoint system like in Arcanum. I also loved the inclusion of addresses, and the fact that the streets have names.

 

Main problem with the game is in my opinion that there is too much filler. Too much fighting that feels unnecessary especially.

[jethro]

I select "Other" because I feel there is no possibility to extract a single feature that defines the greatness of this game. It was the scenario, the music, the dialog, the story... that made Arcanum more than the sum of its parts. I can't point to a single game mechanic.

Edited November 1, 2012 by jethro

[Nixl]

Map stuff- I actually liked the "connect the dot" method, since it allowed you to create circuitous paths that otherwise would have been difficult to accomplish in a normal RPG- I mean, you could literally make your party go through a specific door. It just gave more flexibility. And as hormalakh mentioned, you were forced to actually explore and find things. I actually LIKED having to search around for stuff, because that is what you really do when you're looking for things. "Wait, did I take the first or second left after the 4-way?", "Damn, all these houses are some sort of beige color!", "She said it was right near the monument, but I'm not seeing it!" I very much dislike being spoon fed my directions, like I'm wearing a Tom-Tom in the game...

 

I must be doing something weird/wrong, because everytime I created circuit paths on the local map my character/game refused to do it. Perhaps I just need to reinstall, because even straight lines going perhaps over a screen away from my character created issues.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Nixl

[Hormalakh]

I must be doing something weird/wrong, because everytime I created circuit paths on the local map my character/game refused to do it. Perhaps I just need to reinstall, because even straight lines going perhaps over a screen away from my character created issues.

 

It works well for me...

[teknoman2]

giving my opinion to the poll options

1. it was good but way too random. you could get something very good at the start of the game when you could not afford it then you would have to spend days upon days of advancing time to get it in the store again when you needed it and could buy it (or the oposite: items that could be useful earlier and never apeared before, just pop up when you are at max level and no longer need them). if they add it they should give it some progressivness, making sure that higher level items come up in the store more often when you are of higher level

2. it was good just to define your initial stats, but after that the character was as if he just poped into the world from another planet. even if he was supposed to have boarded the airship at Caladon to go to Tarant, he seemed not to know where either of the cities were or if they even existed. it's like the past you chose for your character just disappeared at the start of the game

3. that was well done, but could use a little more refinement

4. maybe the best implemented feature

5. didnt really liked it... made time in the game look trivial. my first playthrough lasted over 3 years in game time

6. that was nice. and i liked the persuasion system too. you had to have both the skill and some knowledge of the subject to successfuly do it. if you tried to talk the guard into letting you in the "Boy's" mansion, you had to dig up some dirt on him to know what lie NOT to say. not a click to win option

7. this will be in eternity

8. see 1

9. it was nice, but the problem was, that most of it you had to just blindly go around the map hoping to stumble upon it. see 5

[Michael_Galt]

I don't see how having an overhead, static map of the city would be being "spoon fed directions"...

 

I didn't say that was. There are a lot of modern RPGs that give you turn by turn instructions now, so it is virtually impossible for you to not be able to find your objective. This I don't like. In Fallout, you have a PipBoy. That is an "explanation" for that mechanic. But in a fantasy setting, besides magic, it shouldn't "work" like that. I do want the ability to annotate my map, so I can use it as it's meant to be. I use maps all the time in real life, and draw and write on them.

 

I am also not saying I unreservedly love the Arcanum map. I do wish it was drawn out more. But, that being said, I do like being able to dictate the exact path for my party to take, and then just leaving them on autopilot.

 

I must be doing something weird/wrong, because everytime I created circuit paths on the local map my character/game refused to do it. Perhaps I just need to reinstall, because even straight lines going perhaps over a screen away from my character created issues.

 

You have to be careful that you aren't making a path that has physical impediments in the way (like barrels, or stationary NPCs, or lampposts, etc). If there are these things, your party will get "hung up" on them and stop altogether. That is something I wish was ironed out. You had to be careful with building your path.

 

giving my opinion to the poll options

1. it was good but way too random. you could get something very good at the start of the game when you could not afford it then you would have to spend days upon days of advancing time to get it in the store again when you needed it and could buy it (or the oposite: items that could be useful earlier and never apeared before, just pop up when you are at max level and no longer need them). if they add it they should give it some progressivness, making sure that higher level items come up in the store more often when you are of higher level

2. it was good just to define your initial stats, but after that the character was as if he just poped into the world from another planet. even if he was supposed to have boarded the airship at Caladon to go to Tarant, he seemed not to know where either of the cities were or if they even existed. it's like the past you chose for your character just disappeared at the start of the game

3. that was well done, but could use a little more refinement

4. maybe the best implemented feature

5. didnt really liked it... made time in the game look trivial. my first playthrough lasted over 3 years in game time

6. that was nice. and i liked the persuasion system too. you had to have both the skill and some knowledge of the subject to successfuly do it. if you tried to talk the guard into letting you in the "Boy's" mansion, you had to dig up some dirt on him to know what lie NOT to say. not a click to win option

7. this will be in eternity

8. see 1

9. it was nice, but the problem was, that most of it you had to just blindly go around the map hoping to stumble upon it. see 5

 

2. Yes, I will fully concede I thought this was a weakness of the story. I have played out Arcanum in my head, and I always have a backstory explaining why I was headed to Tarant.

5. To me, I think that is a winning feature. I don't like the compressed timelines that most RPGs operate under. In many cases, you go from zero to hero in a matter of weeks. This does not happen. It takes over a year to just train a special forces soldier. Bruce Lee didn't become a master in a month. While I don't think that they need to stretch it out to "realistic" timeframes, I prefer to see that months have passed in the gameworld, vice a few weeks. To me, it makes it more believable. It also makes me feel a greater sense of progress, because it isn't, "Wow, just last week I cleared out 6 bandit camps and now I'm fighting demons! Time flies when you're having fun!"

[teknoman2]

 

 

2. Yes, I will fully concede I thought this was a weakness of the story. I have played out Arcanum in my head, and I always have a backstory explaining why I was headed to Tarant.

5. To me, I think that is a winning feature. I don't like the compressed timelines that most RPGs operate under. In many cases, you go from zero to hero in a matter of weeks. This does not happen. It takes over a year to just train a special forces soldier. Bruce Lee didn't become a master in a month. While I don't think that they need to stretch it out to "realistic" timeframes, I prefer to see that months have passed in the gameworld, vice a few weeks. To me, it makes it more believable. It also makes me feel a greater sense of progress, because it isn't, "Wow, just last week I cleared out 6 bandit camps and now I'm fighting demons! Time flies when you're having fun!"

well to get from a complete noob to a respectably competent warrior at the end of the game in BG, you had to spent 2, 3 or even more months in game. it took me 147 days (almost 5 months) of in game time to complete the game last time i played it, and less than half of it was traveling.

of the 3 years game time in arcanum, 30/36 months were spent roaming around the map, even with the use of a walkthrough that indicated the location of all important areas. so i got from lv1 to lv50 in 6 months, the rest was just the time needed to go from place to place.

[Nixl]

Honestly, I think my game is the problem then at this point. For instance, my circuit routes refuse to work even if I am going down a straight path with no impediments.

 

That being said, I still think the local map covered too small of an area.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nixl

[Starwars]

No, you are right. There is some bug that causes the waypoint system to not work. I am not sure what triggers it, if it could be certain pieces of equipment or what but I have definitely gotten it as well. And it makes the game a bit annoying to play.

 

I think Arcanum is a good game to discuss because it really did do some rather interesting things and had interesting ideas. Far from everything was implemented perfectly, and some of it comes directly from its steampunk setting, but I really hope the devs take some time to study it a bit.

 

Also, while the game is wildly unbalanced, it is still the best game I have played when it comes to activating my imagination during the character creation. The sheer wealth of options, including the in my opinion fantastic split between technology and magic, really made it good for roleplaying.

[jethro]

of the 3 years game time in arcanum, 30/36 months were spent roaming around the map, even with the use of a walkthrough that indicated the location of all important areas. so i got from lv1 to lv50 in 6 months, the rest was just the time needed to go from place to place.

 

What do you think you were doing during your travel time? In the evening at the camp fire? When hunting for food? Or in the small to larger towns on the way (maybe with a shooting range or a library)? Or when you have to rest due to a sprained ankle or a flooded bridge?

 

I think it is assumed in RPGs that you keep a part of your day for training your skills, no matter whether you are traveling or on a quest in some place. You could even say that in the heat of the battle aka quest you might have less time for training.

[Tauron]

So long there is no magic vs tech. Say no to that plz.

[Michael_Galt]

What do you think you were doing during your travel time? In the evening at the camp fire? When hunting for food? Or in the small to larger towns on the way (maybe with a shooting range or a library)? Or when you have to rest due to a sprained ankle or a flooded bridge?

 

I think it is assumed in RPGs that you keep a part of your day for training your skills, no matter whether you are traveling or on a quest in some place. You could even say that in the heat of the battle aka quest you might have less time for training.

 

This. For me, it doesn't have to all be continuous, never-ending adventure, where I'm going from fight to fight, finding the next NPC to get a quest from. I like for their to some sort of sense of urgency to the main quest, but I prefer to be something that is encouraged through game mechanics, rather than being forced on me.

 

So, instead of, "you need to complete this within 24 hours" (which might be nice occasionally, as there are things that if they aren't taken care of immediately, will result in disastrous results- like Paul Revere not making his ride, for instance), it goes like this: if it is not completed within 24 hours, the game "responds" by doing x; if it isn't within 72 hours, y; if it isn't with 96 hours z; etc. Basically, as time goes on, more bad things happen as a result of not "attending to" the issue. So if you don't take out a group of bandits like you have been contracted to do, merchants start providing fewer goods. Then, they become unwilling/unable to participate in trade. Then, bandits begin attacking inside the village, and so on. That way, there are direct results from choosing to accept quests and not completing them, or possibly even from just being made aware of them and not taking some sort of action one way or the other.

 

You could potentially even have triggers that are independent of that, where they just begin as soon as you get to an area. So, all the "quest" options for an area are on a countdown. As soon as you get to that area, the countdown begins. If you don't find out what the actual "quests" are, either by stumbling upon them or being told about them, it doesn't change the "escalations" of the situations. So if you begin wondering why it is that there are more bandit attacks, or abductions, or less goods, whatever, you will find out there is a quest related to it.

 

This seems like such a good idea, I'm going to make it into another thread.

[Ywerion]

  I cant pick one from poll because all of these are valid and great and choosing only one instead multiple, is too limiting for me. 

Arcanum for me was the one game I always wanted to see created, mix of classless anything-you-can-be character creation, fantastic art and style (being fan of steampunk myself that was real blessing), astonishing soundtrack, open world which let you pursue your own goals without forcing you to progress through story, world that was deeply thought-through and was actually very believable and had own logic, huge array of ways how to complete goals or deal with enemies (this is the one game that gave so much pleasure playing a stealth char. silently destroying light source sneaking upon enemies puting explosives in their pockets... you could really prepare creative and cruel things to your enemies), also had some sweet allegory on real world religion, aswell as some really good philosophical depth, world that reacted approprietely to your character based on your gender, race, looks or even appereance (being clad in barbarian outfit vs nice suit, or reacting with you having your summoned demon by side and many others), story which was catching and had numerous twists, not to mentioned best Final Boss, who wasn't surpassed to this day, for me at least, the world itself was slowly turning from nice peaceful on the outside to the one with dark secrets of past and disturbing inside at the present, revealing itself in satisfaying pace and could have been influenced by player actions, leading to deifferent endings. 

  OK lets stop there, I can go endlessly on counless great things that made Arcanum number 1 game for me, I have only these complaints: Companions, there was little to no focus on them, they was hard to herd and control, but I could forgive that if they was more colourful an had more depth which they sadyl haven't, (for example Gar needed more love, he is memorable) follower's only contribution in the end was just their comments on various towns and cities. Next complaint is on low level cap, it was too fast reached before actual end of game, to combat I have practically same complaints like the rest of you .

 

  Sorry for long post I got carried away

[Valorian]

From the options list:

 

"The amount of things you could do that had nothing to do with the main storyline."

[Fearabbit]

Well, my favorite thing was just the general idea of magic vs. technology, as well as the manual that went into great details explaining how magic interferes with technology (stylized as 19th century scientific papers - brilliant).

 

As for things I liked about it that would be good in any RPG: My favorite would be the importance of race, not only for your main character but for NPCs too. But it's a tricky one. I love Arcanum for all that it was *trying* to do. To a certain extent I could have chosen any of the poll options, but none of them was perfect.

Sure, I liked all the exploration and all the side content. I didn't like it so much that even though I lived in that world all my life, I had no clue where certain towns were and no way of finding out other than wildly roaming the land (no roads and/or signs apparently). The map travel method was a cool way of making you feel like the world was a lot bigger, but the map was ugly and there were too many random encounters that quickly stopped being a challenge. Dialogue was brilliant and funny when the exchange was part of a quest, but generic dialogue often felt awkward because NPCs would go from one extreme reaction to another ("Why are you talking to me, you damn ogre?" - "Please, Sir, can't we lay our differences aside?" - "Of course, I apologize. What is it that I can do for you, kind Sir?"). Finding techological schematics was awesome, but by hiding the coolest looking weapons and gadgets in this system, the game ruined its own Steampunk aspect.

And so on and so forth.

[TMZuk]

I am unable to choose which feature I want more than others. In fact, most of the things listed in the poll I see as pros. There's a few of them where I can debate how well they were implemented. And I don't like the crafting system at all. That being said, I dislike crafting in general.

 

By and large, Arcanum is definately one of the better games to be inspired from. A classic, and thankyou to GOG for making such a gem available.

 

But, I'd rather see a poll where more than one option is available.

[Michael_Galt]

Well, my favorite thing was just the general idea of magic vs. technology, as well as the manual that went into great details explaining how magic interferes with technology (stylized as 19th century scientific papers - brilliant).

 

As for things I liked about it that would be good in any RPG: My favorite would be the importance of race, not only for your main character but for NPCs too. But it's a tricky one. I love Arcanum for all that it was *trying* to do.

 

Yeah, I don´t think it was perfect by any means, but I really enjoyed everything that was attempted with it. I think it got some mechanics down really well, whereas others were obviously not as good.

[Rostere]

I've thought about this a lot and I have a hard time choosing between the different backgrounds and the impact of race. What I liked most about Arcanum was how the player character creation allowed for so diverse roleplaying options. Background traits such as "Dark Elf Follower" or "Frankenstein Monster" really inspired the player to play the character in different ways.

 

Always when you talk to people about Arcanum and the different characters you've created, you'll hear of different builds.

[Caligula Dances]

Since there is only one voted I put it in for the sheer scope of dialogue possibilities and subjects, but what makes Arcanum great to me at least, was the sheer scale of the game one that had a rich setting that, offered a large variety of character builds with choice and consequence game play.

Even at the time I didnt mind Arcanum rather muddish looking graphics everything else was great, well maybe not the combat but youl could smash every orc to pieces.

[AGX-17]

Beauty was a more or less irrelevant attribute. It's a good idea, one I'd like to see implemented with much more potency in other games, but It was the Arcanum's dump stat thanks to poor execution. It didn't have any significant effects, charisma and intelligence were what mattered in conversations, and once you entered combat, the hostile NPCs' reaction dropped to 0 regardless of how beautiful your character was. At the very least, opponents should have been negatively affected statistically vs a character with high beauty and positively affected vs a character with low beauty. i.e. Male enemies would be more reticent (and thus suffer combat penalties,) about attacking a female PC with high beauty, and vice versa for female vs male, unless the hostile NPC is homosexual. The obvious other end of the scale is that hostile NPCs would be more aggressive toward ugly/low beauty characters of either sex.

 

So far I've yet to encounter any NPC who could be swayed by high beauty similar to the way the sex appeal trait worked, especially for female player characters, in Fallout 2 (it was pretty useless for male PCs.)

 

Backgrounds were by far my favorite aspect of character creation, even though a more than a few of them resulted in a net loss, statistically. Also some weren't really backgrounds so much as traits (i.e. hydrophobia and the various " x mage" "backgrounds,")

 

I'd like to see backgrounds in P:E and have them affect story and NPC interactions in some way rather than simply modifying gameplay mechanics through statistic modification as in Arcanum (trade strength, constitution and perception for intelligence and charisma, fewer critical hits and misses but greater magnitude when they occur, etc.) It also seems to me like they ought to be a bigger influence on characters' starting attributes, skills and proficiencies than race.

 

 

I could complain that the whole tech aspect of the game was underpowered compared to the magic side, but I've already said that too many times in other threads in which I've discussed my playing of Arcanum. The concept is still fundamentally interesting and could make for more, better games.

Edited January 23, 2013 by AGX-17

[Ave]

Heh, can't vote more than one item.

[Halberd]

I think it would be cool if they had map travelling like in Arcanum where you discover a lot of places by actually walking over them and time goes past as you travel. Plus there are those random encounters which weren't very good in Arcanum mind you but you get the idea.

 

Most of the rest of the poll options are already a given or already have decent chances of making it into the game or they have been voted for enough times. I just want to give a little love to Arcanum's map travelling

[Michael_Galt]

Well, this is a fairly old post, so here I am, bumping it. I feel it is appropriate after having had another update on Chris playing Arcanum... which actually made me pretty sad, because I am highly confident he didn't read anything (including the manual), before playing it (based off what little I watched in the last update).

[Amentep]

Well, this is a fairly old post, so here I am, bumping it. I feel it is appropriate after having had another update on Chris playing Arcanum... which actually made me pretty sad, because I am highly confident he didn't read anything (including the manual), before playing it (based off what little I watched in the last update).

So he's like a lot of players when they get a new game in that regard? Put it in and run with it?

 

Not me, I buy games, open them and read the manual while eating lunch.  

 

Does mean I have awkwardly timed lunches though, so I may want to rethink that strategy...

 

Unfortunately reading the manual didn't guarantee I *remembered* what I read in the manual when it came time to play the game...I remember misreading something in the Fallout manual and really messing up the character I wanted to play because I put too many points into the wrong SPECIAL skill (not that it was game ending or anything, but I did have a "why do I suck so much?" period until I realized the error of my plan).