Update #16: Reward Updates, Combat with Tim, Mods, and the Mega Dungeon Grows!

[Macbeth]

Don't you have cats at home, people? They sleep half a day. And go everywhere they really SHOULD NOT. All the traps of Endless Paths will be theirs, seriously. Okay, the first nine, and then you're on your own. I mean, they are nice home pets, put the game doesn't sound like the Sims to me.

 

 

Yes I do have cats, I have two wonderfully mischeivious, pain in the neck, absolute sweetheart cats. Which is why I want one in game.

Idem dito!

[Inertia]

I want a pet phoenix it's my favorite mythical creature.

[Wirdjos]

For the pet, I think something like a cat would be great. Just something curious that would mess with things in the area, maybe point out something you wouldn't have noticed. I would also like to be able to name it. These are weird little things that increase my attachment to a game and a PC. Of course this is more than an aesthetic so I would prefer if they dropped the in game idea from the rewards and added it to the next stretch goal. I think it can add to the game which is why everyone should be able to have one.

[anek]

What I would love from a pet [...]

- hunting eagle

 

I like this idea.

 

Birds haven't really been done that much as in-game pets, but I think it would work really well.

When the party gets into combat, it could just fly up to a safe distance and circle the area from above, and when the fighting is over it returns to the shoulder of its owner.

[Monte Carlo]

Companion animal that has combat uses = druids and rangers = kewl

 

'Pets' = MMO nonsense = lame

[gandalf.nho]

Regarding pets, I like more a feline one, but the ideal option is the possibility of choose between some option of pets, like a canine one (a dog or wolf), a feline (maybe a lynx or another big cat), a bird (a eagle/hawk or a owl) or some more unusual ones like a ferret, fox or iguana

[Shai182]

as the mage combat goes i think you people are arguing pointlessly, the low level spells meant to be a spell that do not waste your energy, as i see it casting MM is wasting, casting choke is not that of a waste, but it's not as harmful, casting Fire Ball can exhaust the caster as it consumes a lot of energy to do etc. I back this project regardless of the spell system or combat ability, i back it cause it's an RPG and you do not always need to fight to win, you can approach events in several ways, and still get a rearward for it, that's what attracts me, and not pointless fighting.

 

as for pet, i would love to see a Dog, Cat, Fox, Wolf, Hawk.... but nothing unnatural... unless i play a mage who can enchant his pet

[metiman]

Metiman,

You may well be right. I was taking the level wide cool down to include all lower levels. I still don't see a problem with a basic low level magical attack for wizards, rather than equipping them with a sling. I don''t get the impression that the grimoires are supposed to regen until rest though. I think it could work, but it's all about balance. That's why I think it's important that you stay onboard. Obsidian needs to hear that some oldschool fans object to certain mechanics.

 

 

First off, there are not going to be any individual spell cooldowns. We don't want it to be the case where you cast a spell and then you can't recast it if you wanted to. You have to wait for some cooldown to go off. Where we will have cooldowns are in two different things: One. Spells of particular levels may have a cooldown on that level. So once you've done a certain number of those abilities at that level the entire spell level goes into cooldown. Now how long that cooldown lasts...we're going to play with that. On short battles you probably won't be able to use those spells again, but on long battles the cooldown will probably wear off and you'll be able to use those spells at that spell level again. But a different kind of cooldown exists on your grimoire. Your grimoire is a set of spells you've prepared in a book and you're actually holding that book. And those are the spells that the wizard can cast. In addition he has a few basic spells that he can always cast, but all of his other spells come from that grimoire and whenever you switch grimoires there will be a cooldown applied. The cooldown is such that you probably won't want to switch grimoires in the middle of combat, but if you do you'll be able to cast spells but you're going to have to go a few rounds using nothing but your basic spells until the grimoire cooldown is lifted.

 

He does actually say that you only have to wait a few rounds between switching grimoires. By a few he may not actually mean 3, but that's my interpretation.

 

The major problem I see with the magic system isn't so much the unlimited "low level" spells, which I interpret to be typical 1st and 2nd level spells but not 3rd level. That just makes wizards way more powerful than BG2 wizards which were already incredibly powerful. It's not the grimoire cooldown either. Actually, aside for my hatred of any kind of cooldown mechanism just as a kind of blind prejudice based on my experiences playing games that had it, I don't think the grimoire cooldown is itself really a problem at all either. Presumably that's an answer to the criticism of Vancian systems that you can't be perfectly prepared for every encounter on your first playthrough. Not a problem that I thought needed solving, but I don't see having your entire spell book available for every battle as a major problem. Again, wizards were already overpowered in BG2 and it was still fun to play them and fight them. I didn't think wizards needed any more power so as to make the melee classes a complete joke, but they could still be fun to play if the encounters are designed properly and there is good AI and the enemy mages are just as overpowered as your mages.

 

The real problem is the by-level, in-combat spell resets in which you can reset more or less all of your spells before a long combat encounter is even over. I'd be against by-encounter spell resets as well because it doesn't allow for multiple encounter attrition, but at least that doesn't allow you to get back all your spells while you are still fighitng like the Wish spell and Infinite Spells exploits in BG2. I never used Infinite Spells exploits. To me such things ruin the fun of the game. Off course, if there were an option to shut this stuff off...but that hasn't been mentioned. I'm not even sure how it would work. Just turning off the cooldowns or reducing their timers to zero would not fix the problem. I guess the by-level cooldowns could be made longer. Like 8 or 24 hours long or something like that. Or at least long enough for several long battles.

[playdude92]

I just backed Project Eternity with 35 Dollars and hope this helps make it the game it can be!

 

 

For me personally, I´m most ineterested in the societys of these fantasy worlds (i.e. culture, religion, organization, power). So if you could make an update about that, that´d be cool.

 

Also I´m hoping that the quest solving variety will turn out the way it can, with fundementally diffrent ways to do it. Having a host of diffrent approaches to any situation is what I miss most in modern RPGs. So kudos to you for trying to expand it.

 

Allright, enough for now. One last thing though: I can´t wait what you come up with for future stretch goals!

[Nonek]

I think what Mr Cain outlined was an eminently sensible compromise between vancian and modern mechanics, the small spells will I assume be trivial utilitarian things such as Ignus' basic attack, the arcane veil, knock, identify and such. The grimoires are I assume going to need preparation and memorisation, thus the draconian cooldown if you choose to switch your tome, and an emphasis on preparing the right set of spells for the enviroment you're venturing into. Personally i'd like the equivalent of D&D third level spells and onwards to be included in the grimoires, and their use to be limited by these cooldowns.

 

The much higher level spells i'd personally prefer to be basically fire and forget, whether because of their innate complexity and soul shattering efficacy, or whatever reason sounds viable in the setting.

 

I wonder, could there be a risk to excessive spell casting introduced? Something like the attraction of arcane predators, or maybe the creation of magical dead zones when too much energy is expanded in a single area. We're exerting our will upon reality, maybe at some point reality pushes back.

 

Edit: The pet, one of those fluffy mutant purse dogs that bimbos carry, just in case one runs out of loo roll.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nonek

[Labadal]

I don't think low level spells will be unlimited at the start of the game. I'm guessing you will have to reach a certain level before this is a possibility. They could also restric this feature. Low level offensive spells could be the ones that become unlimited, but buffs remain limited. There are many ways they could do it, so it's surprising to me that people are already jumping to conclusions.

 

It was another good update: mod tools, combat info and interest in another Q&A.

 

I hope you can choose not to bring the pet along if it has no actual use.

[curryinahurry]

I don't think low level spells will be unlimited at the start of the game. I'm guessing you will have to reach a certain level before this is a possibility. They could also restric this feature. Low level offensive spells could be the ones that become unlimited, but buffs remain limited. There are many ways they could do it, so it's surprising to me that people are already jumping to conclusions.

 

It was another good update: mod tools, combat info and interest in another Q&A.

 

I hope you can choose not to bring the pet along if it has no actual use.

 

Yes, a sliding scale by caster level. I also think a lot of this will be determined by how they categorize spells and their appropriate levels. Sleep at first level for example may be overpowered in a system like this. There might instead be a daze spell at first level and sleep moves up to second or third level.

[metiman]

I honestly don't understand how Tim Cain could go from something like ToEE to kooldown kombat. ToEE was utter cRPG combat perfection and will probably never be equaled let alone exceeded by anyone, and here we have the lead designer from ToEE committed to doing cooldowns. I will always consider Tim Cain to be a game design god, but this is depressing.

[Nonek]

Chin up old bean, he did say that nothing's finalised yet. Keep campaigning for a TOEE direction, personally I agree that it's yet to be exceeded.

[Labadal]

I honestly don't understand how Tim Cain could go from something like ToEE to kooldown kombat. ToEE was utter cRPG combat perfection and will probably never be equaled let alone exceeded by anyone, and here we have the lead designer from ToEE committed to doing cooldowns. I will always consider Tim Cain to be a game design god, but this is depressing.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but why not wait and see? The project is still in early its stages. We don't know how the system actually works in practice. It doesn't seem to me like the cooldowns in PE will work in the same way they work in most MMO's. I'm not the biggest fan of cooldowns myself, but I'll withold judgement and wait for further clarification.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Meti,

Again it all comes down to the balance. If each grimore is only comprised of a few powerful spells then I think it could actually add to the tactical play of wizards, especially because I'm fairly confident that Obsidian genuinely wants to make an old school IE type game. Also you have to bear in mind that this isn't a DnD game, adapted into RTwP, but their own new system. There will obviously be analogues to DnD spells, but it will be a whole different system.

[metiman]

I honestly don't understand how Tim Cain could go from something like ToEE to kooldown kombat. ToEE was utter cRPG combat perfection and will probably never be equaled let alone exceeded by anyone, and here we have the lead designer from ToEE committed to doing cooldowns. I will always consider Tim Cain to be a game design god, but this is depressing.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but why not wait and see? The project is still in early its stages. We don't know how the system actually works in practice. It doesn't seem to me like the cooldowns in PE will work in the same way they work in most MMO's. I'm not the biggest fan of cooldowns myself, but I'll withold judgement and wait for further clarification.

 

Cain just clarified that stuff. Basically it's in-combat, by-level spell resets, the spell suite concept that Sawyer mentioned previously with like a 3 round cooldown for switching between them, and unlmited low level (probably 1st and 2nd) spells. If you don't have time to watch the video I transcribed the important spell related stuff further up in the thread.

[metiman]

Meti,

Again it all comes down to the balance. If each grimore is only comprised of a few powerful spells then I think it could actually add to the tactical play of wizards, especially because I'm fairly confident that Obsidian genuinely wants to make an old school IE type game. Also you have to bear in mind that this isn't a DnD game, adapted into RTwP, but their own new system. There will obviously be analogues to DnD spells, but it will be a whole different system.

 

You mean like weaker spells to avoid making the mages like gods? As far as the grimoires go, I don't think they are the problem anyway. The problem is the by-level spell resets to avoid the whole resting thing. I think the devs are going to be surprised at how badly that messes up the game when they start doing their playtesting. This isn't the first time such systems have been tried and it won't be the first time such systems have failed.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

Come on metiman, he said that was their starting point. Also, I still don't think that the cool downs apply to the grimoires. He specifically states at one point that you have to rest to renew them. Let's say you''re a low level wizard. Perhaps you only have one Grimoire. At X you get 2. At Y, 3. Neither we nor Obsidian know yet.

[shibby191]

Thanks for the update. As soon as I found out about this a couple weeks ago I pledged. I still have my CDs of BG1/2, IWD1/2 and so forth.

 

Pets...meh. I'd prefer a pet system similar to that of Torchlight where they actually can do something and level up with you vs. just cosmetic like MMOs. But I'm fine either way.

 

Combat sound really cool.

 

Magic...I was curious on this one. Frankly...while I loved those games back in the day having limited spells and being useless gets boring quick. Like others I'm "used" to a mana regen type system most games have over the past 10 years. If you guys have every played DDO they sorta compromised in between. Spellcasters have mana called spell points but it's a limited pool and does *not* autogen. You can get your mana back by resting or potions (which are rare). But this means you need to be wary of your scarce resource of spells between encounters. Lower level spells cost next to nothing to cast, higher level spells cost a lot.

 

It sounds to me like PE is going down a similar path. I see "lower level" spells being unlimited as perhaps a Magic Missile light type spell that maybe only does 1-4 damage and doesn't scale (i.e. like using a sling). But a fireball is much more taxing and thus you can cast only a limited amount of them before going on cooldown.

Another way to do this is to have a "mage staff" that fires something at range that doesn't wear out. You had this in the Dragon Age games for example or in DDO you can have a Wand of Eternal Magic Missle "lite" (1-3 dmg) so the Wizard has something to do and can at least do some damage, no matter how limited, without getting into melee. Once their cooldown is over they can cast something again. I can certainly get behind a system like that.

 

All in all I like the direction the whole game is going and this is my first kickstarter I've backed. Keep it up!

[Ieo]

I just wanted to say..... HOW DARE YOU POST AN UPDATE WHILE I WAS ASLEEP. AND IT'S ONLY 6:40am OVER HERE ON A SATURDAY MORNING. I AM MOST DISPLEASED.

 

*goes to read, grumpily*

[Bloody Hypocrite]

A low level wizard might only have a basic attack. As a wizard gains levels, he would probably a few more tricks up his sleeve that aren't unbalancing, but still readily accessible. I definitely see where you are coming from, but as a gameplay mechanic, it all depends on how they balance it. Nobody can say that it will be overpowered, or under powered yet.

[Krios]

I like to ask about that memorial stone. Has the devs decided if there will be like one big obelisk or will it be an area of stone tablets? Will everyone be able to decode the same tablet or will only players who got the reward be able to get that unique decoding ring? This reward just sounds so cool! Pets, again I hope we get a selection of pets. We get to choose one of them to be our traveling pet for one entire run of game. When we begin a new game, we get to choose again. That will give the Player a choice.

[metiman]

Come on metiman, he said that was their starting point. Also, I still don't think that the cool downs apply to the grimoires. He specifically states at one point that you have to rest to renew them. Let's say you''re a low level wizard. Perhaps you only have one Grimoire. At X you get 2. At Y, 3. Neither we nor Obsidian know yet.

 

Where does Cain say that you have to rest to renew the grimoires? Cain seems to say that such resets will be short enough that they will probably happen during any long battle. Also, by "rest" are you referring to something like a brief pause or to actual sleep? It doesn't look like sleep is going to do a whole lot in this game and sleep certainly doesn't seem to be connected with magic at all.

[Bloody Hypocrite]

From your quote of Tim "It's the higher level spells that have a certain limit on how many times they can be cast before the wizard will have to rest."