Would you like to see orchestral score as a stretch goal?

[el pinko grande]

I turn the music off in every video game I play. So I have no opinion about how they handle the music. They could compose the entire thing in MIDI and I wouldn't care.

[Chunkyman]

Music in a game is very important. It allows a mood to be set and gives you something nice to listen to when not engaged in fun actions. When music in a game is bad, it can ruin the mood of a scene and cause undo boredom when not doing something exciting. For instance, in TES games I spend huge amounts of time walking. Walking (in and of itself) is boring, but that boredom is offset by enjoying the very pleasant music. If instead I had to walk in silence (or with poor quality music), walking would be horribly boring and tedious.

 

Because of all this, I believe it would be worthwhile to add a stretchgoal for a real orchestra to perform the game's music.

[anek]

I turn the music off in every video game I play.

 

[ogrezilla]

I don't dislike music or anything, but I almost always play in the same room where my wife is also doing stuff. So we both tend to turn off game music. And honestly, if I want music I'll usually listen to my own.

Edited October 5, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Justin Bell]

In terms of cost, the range can vary quite a bit. I did say in that one post that Orchestras can be prohibitively expensive, and they can. That said, there are some Orchestras in Europe and Russia (like gakmen suggested) that are less expensive and will still sound great.

 

I wonder though, what about just having some live musicians mixed with the sampled score? Small ensembles would definitely cost less and would still have a positive effect on the overall sound. That can add a lot to enhance expression and realism, in fact I did that on one of the campaign trailer tracks with some of the Horn parts... For those concerned about budget, what do you think of that as a solution?

[Nonek]

Bugger orchestra's let's get Earth, Wind and Fire!

[Tychoxi]

I'm all for spending many, many, *many* monies on music, but I don't think I want the score to be "orchestral". So I voted "don't care", not that I actually lack care in the business hereby being discussed, but rather, 'tis the only option that happens to portray my feelings towards the aforementioned business in "closely enough" a fashion. Not to mention that it be Obsidian who shall decree if an Orchestra - be it of the kind that is manouvered in the dark or not - is the best fit for their misucal directions and needs.

 

Now, to get a few artists - say a string quartet plus oboe, tambourine and trumpet - and using them to wisely enhance the score sounds great.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Tychoxi

[Ieo]

In terms of cost, the range can vary quite a bit. I did say in that one post that Orchestras can be prohibitively expensive, and they can. That said, there are some Orchestras in Europe and Russia (like gakmen suggested) that are less expensive and will still sound great.

 

I wonder though, what about just having some live musicians mixed with the sampled score? Small ensembles would definitely cost less and would still have a positive effect on the overall sound. That can add a lot to enhance expression and realism, in fact I did that on one of the campaign trailer tracks with some of the Horn parts... For those concerned about budget, what do you think of that as a solution?

 

 

Hi Justin

 

I do appreciate you coming in here to answer particular concerns with your knowledge; rare accessibility on the creation side of things, much thanks. I think small live ensembles would be a great compromise--string quartets, whatever, soloist parts--music is significant in setting/amplifying mood and immersion, IMO. Even electric instruments don't sound right to me compared to acoustic, but that could just be me. (Just please ensure everyone is in-tune. ) If something like this can be added to a stretch in combination with something else, that'd be fantastic--I suspect people without musical training or considerable instrument appreciation would have no idea how this matters, though.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I turn the music off in every video game I play. So I have no opinion about how they handle the music. They could compose the entire thing in MIDI and I wouldn't care.

 

I do that with a lot of games too. Dual monitors, one for playing games and the other to watch TV shows.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

In terms of cost, the range can vary quite a bit. I did say in that one post that Orchestras can be prohibitively expensive, and they can. That said, there are some Orchestras in Europe and Russia (like gakmen suggested) that are less expensive and will still sound great.

 

I wonder though, what about just having some live musicians mixed with the sampled score? Small ensembles would definitely cost less and would still have a positive effect on the overall sound. That can add a lot to enhance expression and realism, in fact I did that on one of the campaign trailer tracks with some of the Horn parts... For those concerned about budget, what do you think of that as a solution?

 

I already like your music so far and I like this suggestion. More choice is a good thing and may yield better reults. Make it so!

[Justin Bell]

@jerf, how do you feel about expanding the reach of this pole to include a fourth option? Something along the lines of: Small ensembles and soloist recordings of live musicians please. Best of all worlds in terms of cost and quality.

 

Is that even possible? It's entirely up to you though, and if you feel it would dilute the spirit of your poll I certainly understand and respect that!

[Sensuki]

Definitely do the main theme of the game with live musicians.

 

 

Doesn't have to be in that style, with that many people at an American University though , +1 to Eastern European probably cheaper and just as good.

 

But yeah I wouldn't mind a more minimalistic / intimate soundtrack personally. Small Ensembles and soloists for stuff like Percussion, Kantele, guitar, clarinet etc

 

I understand that Feargus sent you a kickstarter comment from the kickstarter Q&A

 

Question: Could you please ask Justin Bell to take a look at how music was implemented in the first Witcher game? I think that it was a brilliant example of combining "mystical", "ancient" and "emotive".

Feargus: I'll send you comment to him right now.

 

That's a good suggestion as it uses a more minimalistic approach to many tracks while still having a great effect when combined with the in-game ambient sounds.

[Freddo]

I agree with the question guy, The Witcher have an awesome soundtrack, one of the better soundtracks in the recent years for sure. Here are my favorites.

(Especially when the harp kicks in around 2:37 to the end)

 

Was a bit disappointed in the Witcher 2 soundtrack though, didn't really seem to have any of those calm memorable songs W1 have (which were made by Paweł Błaszczak who didn't work on W2).

was kinda nice though. Edited October 6, 2012 by Freddo

[Sensuki]

The best Witcher 1 track IMO was in one of the extra modules ,the price of neutrality - the ambient track to that was amazing, but I can't find it anywhere.

 

The Witcher Soundtrack also doesn't include many of the best ambient tracks from the game either.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Sensuki

[eimatshya]

Yeah, I'd actually be more interested in seeing a small group of musicians perform the score. Having to work with such a restriction can lead to some very creative music. And honestly, many of the most memorable game scores for me have been minimalistic.

 

That said, I'm sure Obsidian knows what will work best for their game, so I look forward to enjoying whatever they decide to go with.

Edited October 6, 2012 by eimatshya

[Justin Bell]

Just curious when you say prohibitively expensive. As in... up to say a quarter of the budget!!?? What sort of figure would we be talking??

 

No no, not that much at all. A budget for a hollywood caliber orchestra can cost as much as 80-100k+ for a full orchestra (80+ musicians), conductor, engineer, orchestrator, copyists etc for about 60-ish minutes of music. Which is lots of money, especially for a game like Project Eternity.

 

But there are ways to bring that price down significantly. The size of the ensemble, their international location, and other factors play into that. In otherwords, there are options, and the example I gave of the "prohibitively expensive" orchestra is definitely on the higher side of those options.

 

I do appreciate you coming in here to answer particular concerns with your knowledge; rare accessibility on the creation side of things, much thanks. I think small live ensembles would be a great compromise--string quartets, whatever, soloist parts--music is significant in setting/amplifying mood and immersion [...]

 

My pleasure. This is what's great about Project Eternity. We're free to talk to you all.

 

I think if the community is vocal enough about it, and it matters to enough people, this could be feasible. I can't promise anything but it's worth a shot. That said, even if we don't get an orchestra or a budget to record musicians, we're still going to do everything we can to make the best score possible for the game.

 

EDIT: One other thing I feel is important to note... In terms of the budget for the game, if there was ever a feature that seemed too expensive or that perhaps threatened to minimize the core experience in some detrimental way, I don't think we would pursue it. So if it's determined that hiring live musicians just isn't feasible for this project, there will more than likely be a very good reason for it.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Justin Bell

[Haerski]

I agree with The Witcher point. Less can sometimes be more and in TW the beautifully melancholic score with folk music elements fits much better into fantasy world than epic but usually generic orchestral arrangements. The Witcher has one of those few soundtracks I still listen constantly.

[True_Spike]

I think people really do not understand how big of a difference that would make. There are, certainly, some budget solutions and a stretch goal of this sort would attract a lot of people (besides, it would be an original one, something other than more classes, more races, more of the same). I don't want to speak for Justin, but I'm sure he'd absolutely love to work on this and a professional's opinion speaks volumes about the benefit of working with an orchestra. Am I right?

[Starwars]

I think people really do not understand how big of a difference that would make. There are, certainly, some budget solutions and a stretch goal of this sort would attract a lot of people (besides, it would be an original one, something other than more classes, more races, more of the same). I don't want to speak for Justin, but I'm sure he'd absolutely love to work on this and a professional's opinion speaks volumes about the benefit of working with an orchestra. Am I right?

 

This is something that I think is a narrow-minded view to take. You can compose good music without an orchestra. You do not need an orchestra for a fantasy soundtrack. Having an orchestra does not mean that the soundtrack will be better.

If one really wants to embrace the classic, epic, fantasy style, then yes... An orchestra would obviously be a good choice.

But again, just having an orchestra does not equal having a better score. It does not make things more "professional" than any other approach. Something like the Diablo 1 dungen tracks, or the various soundtracks to the Silent Hill's would've not benefitted from an orchestra. There are so many ways to approach music in games and more often than not, it's disappointing to me to see that musicians don't (or are maybe not allowed) to really get experimental with what they do. And so often you get orchestral music that, which while it may be great on its own, is simply put on "top" of a game instead of the music feeling more organic to the world and bringing out the intricacies of it.

 

The world of PE seems to be a vastly multi-cultural one, so let's bring in lots of influences from different cultures. Like someone mentioned, a great strength of something like the Witcher 1 soundtrack was that it really gave texture to the world, it spoke of the culture one could see in the game. It reinforced the sense of being in a *place*. An orchestra is not *needed* for this approach for example, in fact , in many cases, it would probably be superflous.

 

I think it'd be awesome to get some live musicians/instruments for the soundtrack, and I think mixing that with cleverly used music composed on a computer can produce fantastic and interesting results. And of course, would likely keep the costs down.

 

That's not to say that one can't get experimental while working with an orchestra of course. But it has a tendency (for whatever reason) to instantly put the soundtrack down the same ol' boring epic fantasy music stereotypes that we've heard oh-so-many times.

[Jarmo]

Just curious when you say prohibitively expensive. As in... up to say a quarter of the budget!!?? What sort of figure would we be talking??

 

No no, not that much at all. A budget for a hollywood caliber orchestra can cost as much as 80-100k+ for a full orchestra (80+ musicians), conductor, engineer, orchestrator, copyists etc for about 60-ish minutes of music. Which is lots of money, especially for a game like Project Eternity.

.... But there are ways to bring that price down significantly. The size of the ensemble, their international location, and other factors play into that.

 

 

It's really, really difficult to have an informed opinion on this. Not knowing the actual music or how much better it'd be with a few real musicians added in, or with the full orchestra. It's possible to do pretty neat things with a violin + cello, and adding 30 trumpets on top wouldn't necessarily improve. All depends on stuff and then more stuff and I don't really know either of the stuffs.

 

What I can say though, is if there was a situation where I'd have to choose between good music and amazingly good music, but having the amazing stuff required cutting a location from the game, a village or a dungeon. I'd cut the location and it wouldn't even be a tough choice.

 

It's that important.

 

I think people really do not understand how big of a difference that would make.

 

Yep, that's the thing really.

 

But it goes the other way too, a bunch of rock bands have made recordings with a full orchestra,

and it's never been as good as it was with just the band. Just adding stuff doesn't help.

 

Then again, if it's the kind of music that benefits from a bunch of live musicians, and there's

a way to add them without it being prohibitively expensive, hell yeah go for it.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Jarmo

[Jarmo]

As a related note, I'd love to see (or even hear) a choir on some specific epic instances.

It can really add to the mood, but I guess when we're speaking of prohibitively expensive, this is what we're speaking of.

[Indiphilo]

In terms of cost, the range can vary quite a bit. I did say in that one post that Orchestras can be prohibitively expensive, and they can. That said, there are some Orchestras in Europe and Russia (like gakmen suggested) that are less expensive and will still sound great.

 

I wonder though, what about just having some live musicians mixed with the sampled score? Small ensembles would definitely cost less and would still have a positive effect on the overall sound. That can add a lot to enhance expression and realism, in fact I did that on one of the campaign trailer tracks with some of the Horn parts... For those concerned about budget, what do you think of that as a solution?

 

I think that is a great solution! I'm also in favor of extending the poll for a mixed live/sampled score.

 

Personally, I can't really get into classical scores played entirely by sampled instruments, as they often lack the depth and soul to bring out what the music is trying to express. But with that said, PE:s score doesn't have to be classical only! I'd love some more experimental and modern/ambient touches as well, which can be done really well with a sampled score.

[Karranthain]

Personally, I would be fine with just recording musicians' performance - e.g. a classical guitarist's or cellist's solos weaved into Justin's work.

I'd imagine that'd be much cheaper.

[EDITEDIT]

Yes, i would definately like to have an orchestral score.

Better than another class.

Maybe we can get one at a stretch goal of 2.7 or $2.8 million?

[TrashMan]

Hire Yokko Kanno to do the music...