Proposed Inventory System

[Hypevosa]

Alright, if you could change the title to Inventory Management Proposal *Edited*, this is the contents (and thanks):

 

The following is my proposal for how I believe the inventory management system in PE should work. My goal was to provide interesting depth while avoiding as much tedium as possible. I'm going to go over everything from the backpack, to equipment, to currency, and anything in between. Most of the system is automatic to stop 15 minute inventory rearrangements, while alot of detail, this is simply describing why and how it works.

 

I'm a D&D pen and paper DM, naturally you'll see some references to that here - not that it's out of place since baldur's gate and other games are D&D based, but don't feel special for calling me on it.

 

If you aren't interested in the details, I’ve put spoiler tags around the bulk of things and left the examples and TL;DR visible.

 

First and foremost I propose a system that combines volume and mass. Mass being your typical carrying capacity that's limited by your player's strength.

 

Mass, Treasure, and Currency:

 

In my opinion, all items should have weight, even money but that doesn't mean the system needs to be overly punishing.

 

Instead of including tons of raw currency, having items that have alot of inherent value but weigh very little replacing stacks of 5k gold might be an option. Carrying around that near weightless diamond would be better than just selling it for gold, and you can always just include items as part of a trade for something you want besides. Having cooler treasure than just raw currency would make the game much more interesting.

 

We could also have a dynamic currency system. Instead of using only gold as currency, have different denominations. Copper, silver, gold, and platinum would work, each coin up being worth 10 of the last. But, to keep the player from having to tightly manage all that, make it so that going to a merchant will automatically change out your coins to the highest denominations. For example:

 

The party has raided a dungeon and found 215 copper, 80 silver, and 20 gold. On going to a merchant, that is automatically changed to 3 platinum, 1 silver, and 5 copper pieces, and have people get change for purchases.

 

Giving currency weight also encourages people to actually spend it rather than hoard it - just give them things worth spending it on, even if that's a magically bound chest to store more gold in or something ("secret chest" but more permanent)

 

Volume, Tetris without the shuffle games:

 

In terms of volume, essentially the tetris system but that automatically fills itself unless you turn autosorting off. There are multiple types of packs that have X units of volume in them and room for X bulky items, such as full plate armor. 1 bulky item is equal to 32 units of space.

 

Certain bulky items will also “yield” volume slots when placed into your inventory. For example, while a breastplate and a full plate suit take up a bulky slot, the breast plate will 16 units of space to represent the hollow space you can fill with items, unlike the full plate which fills its chest plate entirely with its other pieces.

 

Placing items into your inventory will automatically let you know if you don't have enough space (no shifting tons of junk around if you don’t want to). It will automatically check with you if it's ok to move an item that was inside a pack to a strap slot should that be required to fit the new item in the pack. It acts almost like the tetris system but is meant to be hassle free for those who don’t want to play the sorting game. It takes 0 in game time to accomplish this outside combat, but trying to do this in combat will take a number of turns depending on how much needs to move around. It takes 3 rounds to find an item in a full pack, 2 rounds if it is over half full, 1 round if it is less full, and any item that is medium or small takes an additional round to find.

 

It is also possible to fill bags that are on the ground with loot - and clicking on one opens the inventory interface with the packs contents in the "ground" area so things may be transferred. Pickpocketing a bag allows the rogue to remove one item that is of long or smaller size instantly during battle, with higher chances for larger items. I think this sounds better than saying it’s impossible to pull X item out of your pack, or letting people randomly throw armor and weapons around like magic.

 

Dragging one pack onto another empties that pack's contents into it that can fit, starting with the largest items first. If the pack empties entirely and there is room, that pack is also stored inside.

 

Items that are the same will “stack” still taking up the proper amount of space, the number showing in the lower right like in baldur’s gate.

 

Types of Packs:

 

Simple pack - this is your basic drawstring bag with some rope loops for your arms - nothing really fancy. Takes up a 1 unit of space when stored.

 

24 units of space

 

Back pack - this is a larger shaped and supported pack. The straps are leather and it has a buckle close top. Takes up a 4 units of space.

 

1 x bulky slot

2 strap slots

 

Adventurer's pack - this is the quintessential adventuring backpack, large enough to hold almost anything you need to head out and find adventure, but with enough space to bring back the loot as well. It fits snugly to your back. Takes up 8 units of space.

 

1 x bulky slot

40 units of space

5 strap slots

 

Rogue's Loot sack - The stereotypical giant loot sack. Santa may want it back when you're done with it... Takes up 16 units of space.

 

4 x bulky slots

 

SPECIAL - this item can only be carried with both hands, not worn. You may attack with it, slow and awkward as it is, doing damage based on the weight of what is inside, but the more weight inside also increases the chance of it just bursting on hitting your opponent, tearing the sack asunder. It must be emptied and stored, or dropped to the ground (regardless of contents) before you can use normal weapons, and it (unlike other packs) is equipped to the weapon slot instead of the pack slot. As you cannot access other gear with it equipped, holding it shows only its contents in your inventory screen, regardless of combat situation. It is assumed you have a sheath or strap for your off hand item so you needn't constantly shuffle it around to use the sack.

 

Bag of Holding - this is a small magical rucksack with a head sized opening that leads to a minor pocket plane. It always weighs 10 lbs, regardless of contents, and carries a much larger amount of equipment than it leads you to believe, which can be summoned by thinking of the thing you want while your hand is in the sack.

 

40 units of space

 

Portable hole - The ultimate hoarder's item, this is a piece of magical cloth that, when laid against a surface, creates a hole 10 feet deep. The cloth is a 6 foot diameter circle that can fold up to the size of a handkerchief, and weighs only as much. Takes up a 1 unit of space..

 

SPECIAL: When using the portable hole you toss out a 10 foot black circle on the ground, only if there's nothing in the way. To use the portable hole, you click to enter and it essentially acts as if you are entering a dungeon. You pick up and drop items on the "ground" in the hole to store them. People can be trapped inside the portable hole if it is collapsed while they are inside. There is a total of 10 minutes of air for 1 medium creature in the hole, after which they begin to suffocate (assuming they need air). The hole cannot be collapsed while a creature is still sticking out of it.

 

Extra Special: if a bag of holding enters the portable hole a rift is opened to the astral plane the sucks up both items and destroys them. If a portable hole is placed in a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the astral plane that destroys the bag and the hole, but also sucks in any creatures within 10 feet to the astral plane (can you say special quest? :D). Characters with a wisdom score of 13 or higher will receive a little warning "You aren't entirely sure it is a good idea to have the bag of holding and portable hole interact... do it anyways?" before they attempt to enter a portable hole while carrying a bag of holding, or try to put the portable hole into a bag of holding.

 

Time or Room saving items:

 

Potion Clip: this clip has 5 potion slots on it, allowing you to use a potion instantly during a fight. If you don't have a free hand it takes a move/attack action. (think of it as a quick item slot but you can have 5 different potions in it if you desire) takes up 2 units of space

 

Scroll case: This is a case for organizing scrolls. Normally if you click on a pile of scrolls, it will show you 5 random scrolls to pick from of those in the pile - having this case allows you to be perfectly organized and know exactly where the scroll you're looking for is, for immediate use. Takes up 4 units of space.

 

Gem Box: While a pile of 20 gems may take up one unit of space in your bag (save for the largest of gems that take up a whole space to themselves), sometimes it's better to keep things organized if you need a specific gem for some reason, rather than sifting through the pile for what you need. The gem box takes up 4 units of space and has 10 slots which can hold up to 10 of the same type of gem. This is a favorite item of dwarves. Gems automatically go in the box regardless of who picked them up, once the 10 slots are filled they are piled in the finder's inventory instead.

 

Jewelry box: Keeping your magic rings organized can mean the difference between pulling out your ring of fire resistance, or getting cooked alive by the dragon that just landed in front of you. This takes up 4 units of space and is a box containing a few small rails for rings to be slid on, hooks that keep necklaces and amulets stored thin without tangling, and some circular recesses for bracelets. It can store 10 rings, 5 amulets/necklaces and 5 bracelets. This does not function automatically unless the character with it has picked up the item found.

 

Small and large money pouches - each pouch takes up 1 unit of space or 4 units of space and holding 250 or 1000 (depending on size), coins of 1 type for those who prefer it organized rather than jingling around in their bag and making noise (detraction to move silently). You can designate the coin type that bag will hold at any time, and it will automatically put coins of that type found by anyone into that bag.

 

SPECIAL: There are rumored to be special pouches created by alchemists that convert the coins placed inside into that of another metal. These pouches are woven with the metal they will mask the coins placed inside to, but will only work once a day - the coins that were converted changing back to their normal metal after one day. Be aware that merchants may notice this trick if a large, valuable purchase is transacted with these coins, and the repercussions could indeed be dire. Coins are not automatically placed in these pouches, they must be transferred there on purpose. When making a purchase you will be asked if you wish to use the counterfeit coins or not.

 

Quivers - these items while not equipped take up a long slot in the pack, better than having 60 arrows of various sorts scattered about. Automatically fills with arrows picked up by that character. This takes up 8 units of space.

 

Summoning circlet: This item takes up 8 units of space in any pack and is placed at the top of its aperture, but it allows you to instantly conjure an item to your hand.

 

Equipment:

 

Equipment is largely the same as BG2 with the following additions:

 

Quiver slot - to the left of the arrow slots is the slot for the quiver. By having arrows stored inside quivers, this allows one to simply toss an empty quiver aside and equip a new one when necessary instead of having to manage tons of bundles of 20 arrows.

 

Belt slots - when wearing a belt you gain 3 slots in which you can place an item that is 8 units or less, such as potion clips, scroll cases, etc for immediate access. This in essence replaces the quick items. You need not remove these before taking off a belt to switch it with a new one - switching belts will automatically transfer the items. However, simply removing the belt and putting it on the ground acts as if you dropped it and the items it holds. Belts behave like bags on the ground and can be gone through.

 

How this system works:

 

When not in combat, your backpack will always be opened automatically on going to the inventory screen, when in combat, your other containers like quiver, potion clip, and scroll case will be open since items in the pack take time to get to. You can also then drag any containers to the ground, effectively dropping all that gear if you need to lighten your load before combat. This should save time compared to dragging and dropping individual items, only to pick them up moments later.

 

Example of how it looks outside combat with an empty adventurer's pack (forgive me, I only have MSpaint to work with right now... >_>):

 

 

Now here's the same inventory, but where a sword has been placed in the bulky slot, freeing up more volume.

 

 

 

 

And now the same inventory where there are 3 of that sword.

 

 

Clicking once on the swords would take one, but double clicking would take all of them. Shift clicking would bring up the take X menu.

 

If autosorting was turned off, instead the inventory area would show enough small slots to represent the space in the bag, but where the shape only allowed one bulky (4x8) item to fit.

 

If there were a weapon or item too long to fit in the bag, it would be forced into a strap slot.

 

TL;DR

 

Advantages of this system:

- Depth and tactics that combat has rarely been afforded in other games.

---- Dropping a pack or belt with gear on it can allow you to lighten your load before a fight without dropping tons of junk. 1 drop and 1 pickup.

---- Equipping whole quivers of 60 arrows instead of bundles of 20 allows one to quickly refit an archer.

---- Taking gear from an enemy's dropped pack, or a rogue pick-pocketing a strapped on item.

---- Leaving cursed or poisoned items out on dropped packs for enemies to take as a new kind of trap.

---- Enemies taking gear and using it for themselves from dropped packs.

---- Containers serve more purpose but aren't necessary to keep a pack from filling full of tiny items.

- Less playing the shuffle game, but still keeping things more interesting than an infinite adventurer's backpack of storage. Tetris is optional for those who want it.

- Gems and scrolls don't take the same space as a full plate armor

- Currency and bartering are more interesting as there's less incentive to just instantly sell everything you pick up.

- Interesting variations of containers lead to new roleplaying experience (like the pouches that create counterfeit money)

 

Neutral points:

- Slightly more realistic since volume is accounted for

- Automatic transference of items is a little unrealistic.

 

Disadvantages of this system:

- Some items may be automatically transferred to another character's storage item without you wanting it there. (I'm assuming 95% of gems and the like are going to just need to be sold)

- No carrying 10 full plate armors in one backpack (items needing bulky slots like full/half plate should be rarer anyways)

- No carrying 100,000 coins on one character.

- Extra containers needed to optimize inventory space and time to acquire found items (however, these containers should be easily found on others and not need to be bought - most mages or clerics would have a scroll box, many rogues would have coin purses or gem boxes, etc. We shouldn't have to find what random shop is carrying a gem bag for example)

- An enemy trapping you in your own portable hole and your party being unable to free you in time or dying would kind of suck.

[SqueakyCat]

Brevity . . . always a good companion whilst posting.

[Sylvius the Mad]

For individual character inventories, the NWN inventory system was just about perfect. It was manually sortable, the grid accounted for the problem of large items, and anything in there could be placed on the hotbar for quick use. Aside from perhaps being too large (4 pages might be better than 6), it was brilliant.

 

For shared inventory, I have to refer to the only game I can recall handling group encumbrance well, and that's Wizardry 8.

 

I'm not a big fan of shared inventory, so I would rather individual inventories in an NWN style (weight + tetris).

[Hypevosa]

Sorry about a lack of brevity, but the proposal was for an entire system, hence why I gave a warning to skip to "how this works" and the bits at the end. If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

 

The inventory isn't shared, this inventory is for every character - the items that automatically take what people pick up are largely doing so for convenience since, chances are, if you pick up a jewel you're just going to throw it at the person who has the container for it anyways, why not save that time?

 

The proposed system is essentially tetris that automatically sorts itself, keeping the player from needing to be in the inventory forever while also allowing the system to take volume into account.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Jasede]

I'd be happy with BG 1/2 style inventories with a carry capacity stat to deal with bulky/heavy items. Abstraction is fine.

[Hypevosa]

I'd be happy with BG 1/2 style inventories with a carry capacity stat to deal with bulky/heavy items. Abstraction is fine.

 

Having individual jewels and scrolls taking up the same slots as a full plate is my only issue with that system.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The proposed system is essentially tetris that automatically sorts itself, keeping the player from needing to be in the inventory forever while also allowing the system to take volume into account.

Taking volume into account ins't the only benefit of tetris, though. The manual sorting is itself a strength of inventory tetris, and you've discarded it.

 

I like tetris because it lets me put everything where I want it, and it stays there until I move it. Having to go browsing through my inventory to find things is a waste of time, and having to do it every time is a bigger waste of time than periodic sorting.

[Hypevosa]

Bulky, flat, long, medium, small - if you can just recall the type of slot it's in, you'd find it instantly still, you can sort the items within their own sizes. If you're going to rearrange your whole inventory because you keep all the potions first, arrows second, armors third and weapons last in terms of where they are in your inventory left to right, and you just found a new stack of potions, that's usually quite a bit of resorting.

 

This system easily allows the tetris system to exist in it by just expanding all the slots into small slots. There could be an option to have auto sorting off and expand it.

 

Actually, that makes me realize that the tetris system, just with autosorting, would work as well with the packs I proposed simply giving a volume unit in small squares.

 

Anyways, what do you think of the other ideas?

 

unfortunately I can't edit the original post... awesome

Edited October 1, 2012 by Hypevosa

[rjshae]

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya.

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

[Hypevosa]

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya.

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

[dlux]

A volume + weight mechanic is fine, but why all of the different sized slots? Something like 250 weight + 500 volume would suffice, e.g. helmets are light but volumunous, battle hammers are heavy but use little space.

 

It is an interesting idea, but these different slot sizes irritate me and is not better (maybe even worse) than inventory tetris in my opinion.

[Silver6986]

My god, OP your wall of text reads sort of similar to another proposal I read some other user come up with under a different thread except it was for lockpicking, you end with a ludicerously overcomplicated system, BG was just fine, your idea about weight for money I think is also fine (maybe under HC mode) but everything else!!?? Yikes.

 

I think BG did quite well with regards to inventory management, anything more then this and you start making the game about inventory 101 and people will start requesting guides from others as to how it works.

 

Imo something like inventory management should not become this convoluted.

 

I like the idea you have about different bags holding different amounts for example, but this was already covered in BG2, with Bottomless Bags of Holding being able to allow you to carry the most amount of items (also pretty much anything as well when compared to say a Scroll Case - only for spell scrolls).

[Metabot]

I like it mostly.

[rjshae]

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya.

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

 

Or maybe a sort by weight button with the heaviest stuff clunking to the bottom.

[Hypevosa]

My god, OP your wall of text reads sort of similar to another proposal I read some other user come up with under a different thread except it was for lockpicking, you end with a ludicerously overcomplicated system, BG was just fine, your idea about weight for money I think is also fine (maybe under HC mode) but everything else!!?? Yikes.

 

I think BG did quite well with regards to inventory management, anything more then this and you start making the game about inventory 101 and people will start requesting guides from others as to how it works.

 

Imo something like inventory management should not become this convoluted.

 

I like the idea you have about different bags holding different amounts for example, but this was already covered in BG2, with Bottomless Bags of Holding being able to allow you to carry the most amount of items (also pretty much anything as well when compared to say a Scroll Case - only for spell scrolls).

 

It hardly needs a guide when it works automatically and should be largely intuitive. Using a sack on another to empty the one into the other, for example, should be intuitive.

 

If I could edit the original post, I would be getting rid of the slots and just replacing it with the tetris system that sorts things for you, with the addition of the straps slots. This works essentially the same but it just names groupings of squares instead - which isn't really necessary in my eyes.

 

 

I've always thought that encumbrance should be based on the moment of inertia, but that's just physics for ya.

 

Yes, varying inventory grid slots by item size is a nice touch. Some way of quickly seeing the heaviest items is also useful.

 

Could just have a number representing the weight in one of the corners?

 

Or maybe a sort by weight button with the heaviest stuff clunking to the bottom.

 

That could work.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Acre]

I don't know which inventory system would be best. I think all the different kinds of inventories I've seen have had their own flaws but a lot of them seem easily fixed.

Like the "tetris-style" inventory from Diablo or Deus Ex: HR, all they really need is an auto-sorting button(already done in Arcanum, I think?) and the capability to click and drag several items at once. DE:HR even let you rotate the items - which would, no doubt, work even better when you can actually use the mouse.

As for the BG's, I guess the worst thing was non-stacking gems and stuff taking up your space.

The WoW inventory is effective and designed for PC controls but I just find it, idunno, lacking in style?

I like the idea of a more "free-form" inventory, like in Morrowing or Quest for Glory 5. You'd equip stuff, but not in pre-designated boxes that surround your character in the inv. screen, so you could mix and match. Makes me feel fashionable.

[LadyCrimson]

If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

Just FYI, there are spoiler tags. I don't see them as a WYSIWYG editor icon choice, but if you manually type the typical [ spoiler ] code tags around the chosen paragraphs it should work.

Edited October 1, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[TrashMan]

I have a simpler system in mind...

 

Think of having a inventory like BG2. No tetris because every items takes up one slot (heck, ti can even be an item list)

BUT

here's the difference

Each items has two stats - WEIGHT and VOLUME

 

Just like you have max weight you can carry, so you have max volume.

 

So basicly you just have to keep an eye out for those numbers to keep the inventory in shape. No shuffling.

 

That ring?

Weighs 0.5, takes up 1 volume unit

That very puffy outfit?

wights 6, takes up 20 volume units

 

 

So basicly you'd have

 

Weight: 50/100 (medium encumbrance)

Volume: 80/100

[Monte Carlo]

I don't mind straightforward encumbrance rules, i.e. weight versus strength, but this is too complex for me. As long as small items stack (i.e. I should easily be allowed to get 100 small gemstones in a single inventory slot) then I'm happy.

 

BG2's scroll cases, quivers, gem bags and potion satchels were a simple solution to a simple problem.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Bulky, flat, long, medium, small - if you can just recall the type of slot it's in, you'd find it instantly still, you can sort the items within their own sizes. If you're going to rearrange your whole inventory because you keep all the potions first, arrows second, armors third and weapons last in terms of where they are in your inventory left to right, and you just found a new stack of potions, that's usually quite a bit of resorting.

Hopefully you'd have the foresight to leave gaps to allow each grouping to grow.

 

In NWN, for example, the only thing I keep on the front page of the inventory is potions and anything reguarly swapped out. If I don't have enough potions to fill the space, then there's empty space there. Plot items are kept on the second page, and so on..

This system easily allows the tetris system to exist in it by just expanding all the slots into small slots. There could be an option to have auto sorting off and expand it.

Being able to turn auto-sorting off would be terrific. I remember how much I liked the inventory system in the original Dungeon Siege, but then the expansion ruined it by adding a mandatory auto-sort feature. I never did finish the expansion.

Actually, that makes me realize that the tetris system, just with autosorting, would work as well with the packs I proposed simply giving a volume unit in small squares.

Well, there you go. As mentioned, that inventory system already exists in Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna.

Anyways, what do you think of the other ideas?

I like the idea of automatic money changing at merchants. I do not like the idea of decimal currency; that's entirely too modern a concept. If Britons could manage farthings and guineas, gamers can handle something more organic than decimal currency.

 

Anyway, I'm glad we reached agreement on Inventory Tetris with an optional Auto-Sort.

[Vandoon]

I like Hypevosa's concept very well constructed. I do like having encumbrance as part of the system.

[TrashMan]

I still think my proposal is the simplest, while also being realistic enough.

 

You still can't lug around 10 suits of plate armor, as both weight and valume are taken into acount.

[Hypevosa]

I still think my proposal is the simplest, while also being realistic enough.

 

You still can't lug around 10 suits of plate armor, as both weight and valume are taken into acount.

 

That's basically the revised idea - I've been rewriting the document I'd saved this in, my problem is not being able to just edit my initial post, which is quite vexing

 

Essentially I've broken it down into items have bulky slots and then volume around those slots - the reason I kept the bulky was simply because if you look at the adventurer's backpack, while it has the volume to fit 2 suits of full plate, the point was that the rigidity made it so only one could fit without it sticking out the top of it.

 

I'm going to make a new thread and have this one deleted if possible, and, should that not be condoned by a moderator, I'll see if they can just edit my post for me.

 

If there were spoiler tags I'd have used those to cut the post in size.

Just FYI, there are spoiler tags. I don't see them as a WYSIWYG editor icon choice, but if you manually type the typical [ spoiler ] code tags around the chosen paragraphs it should work.

 

and thank you, I'll be sure to make use of these.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Blam]

I like volume + weight as an idea but I can see it getting reeeally complicated in practice. Perhaps just have a "Heavy" tag on some items that gives a strength penelty and a "Bulky" tag that gives a dexterity penelty? Otherwise treat them like normal items? It would encourage players to keep their inventory small when getting into a fight too.

 

Also, wearing items like a potionbelt, spellbook, scabbard belt or a quiver (or similar specialised inventory device) could give a quickdraw ability for any item of that type in that character's inventory, and mayabe also giving that item type a reduction in bulk or wieght penelty. (Let's assume the adventurer can figure out how to pack their own gear)

[GhostofAnakin]

Expandable inventory. Even if I have to pay a lot for it, I want the ability to increase my inventory size.