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Romance in Project Eternity: How Important, How Much

Merin
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Romance in Project Eternity  

365 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your feeling on romance in cRPGs?

    • I never enjoy romance in my games - it often makes me enjoy them less.
      29
    • I don't enjoy romance in my games, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment overall.
      12
    • Most of the time I don't enjoy romance in my games, with a few exceptions.
      43
    • Sometimes I enjoy romance in my games, sometimes I don't.
      66
    • Most of the time I enjoy romance in my games, with a few exceptions.
      56
    • I always enjoy romance in my games, but I don't need them for me to enjoy the game overall.
      120
    • I love romance in my games - without romance I usually don't enjoy games.
      22
    • I am indifferent to romance in my games; don't care either way.
      17

  2. 2. How well do you feel romance has been used in cRPGs in the past?

    • It has always been bad. Sometimes really awful.
      34
    • It is usually not very good, with very rare exceptions.
      78
    • It has been more bad than good, but sometimes it was alright.
      50
    • Sometimes it had been bad, sometimes it has been good.
      69
    • It has been more good than bad, but sometimes it was cringe-worthy.
      57
    • It is usually pretty good, with some notable exceptons.
      55
    • It has always been good. Sometimes exceptionally great.
      14
    • I have no opinion on how it's been done before.
      8

  3. 3. Do you want Project Eternity to include any romance in the game?

    • Absolutely not. I really do not want any romance in the game - I personally dislike the addition, period.
      26
    • I would strongly prefer not. I don't think it can add anything, and I worry that the game overall will suffer if it is done poorly.
      23
    • I'd rather it isn't part of the game, but if Obsidian decides to add it I'll adjust.
      27
    • Up to Obsidian entirely... I'll accept their decision either way equally.
      70
    • I'd rather it is part of the game, but if Obsidian decides to not include it I'll adapt.
      80
    • I would strongly prefer it. I think it can add a lot, and I feel the overall game may be less compelling if it is not included.
      80
    • Absolutely. I really want romance in the game - I personally want it, period.
      49
    • I hold no preference.
      10

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arrowhead

arrowhead

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's not important for me. I wouldn't mind if it's there as long as it's done well and not romance=sex. I wouldn't miss it if it's not there.

Edited by arrowhead
Undecaf

Undecaf

Posted
Posted (edited)

These threads just keep on coming...

 

Voted no. Again.

 

A well done romance is too large a feature to be hamfisted in with "few lines of dialog", and too redundant and costly to be done in the larger scale. And I seriously doubt the promancers would be happy about it if it actually did consist of those "few lines of dialog" and was comparable to those "kill the rats in my cellar for 50 coins" or "fetch the stolen family heirloom from that dungeon" quests. So no, please leave these inanities to other games more suitable for them. There can be deep discussions and even relationships with the companions and NPC's without there being a sudden and stupid can you feel the love tonight moment.

 

/my ever so humble opinion

Edited by Undecaf

Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!

"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys."

anek

anek

Posted
Posted

Why are romances special enough an idea that we argue about it being in the game before we even know if it fits?

 

I'm not trying to push for romances in this particular game.

(Although seeing as the devs have already confirmed that the PC's background and character will not be predefined, but can be defined by the players and their imagination, I don't see how it could not fit in the game if the player is so inclined.)

 

What I'm arguing against, is the close-minded prejudice against game romances as "yay we had sex" Steam-achievement, rather than as a well-thought-out optional part of NPC dialog-trees and action-consequence scripts that is fundamentally intertwined with character development and friendship and gives a game depth and makes it 'come to life' better.

  • Like 1
Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted

Can't really think of all that many mature romances in games. I guess Guybrush-Elaine counts, at least.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

jarpie

jarpie

Posted
Posted

Why are romances special enough an idea that we argue about it being in the game before we even know if it fits?

 

I'm not trying to push for romances in this particular game.

(Although seeing as the devs have already confirmed that the PC's background and character will not be predefined, but can be defined by the players and their imagination, I don't see how it could not fit in the game if the player is so inclined.)

 

What I'm arguing against, is the close-minded prejudice against game romances as "yay we had sex" Steam-achievement, rather than as a well-thought-out optional part of NPC dialog-trees and action-consequence scripts that is fundamentally intertwined with character development and friendship and gives a game depth and makes it 'come to life' better.

 

As I said before: "Like Monte Carlo said, the problem with romances is that writing a single NPC Companion takes couple months, and if you do one romance (for example if you play male-character and have romanceable female companion), then people would demand romances for female -> male, male -> male, female -> female and that's basicly six months of writing and takes basicly four companions, and even if you dont romance the said characters their interactions/dialogue/etc will be limited because writing time and resources were spend on writing romances of what only a portion would play.

 

The budget for this game will be limited already so Obsidian has to look and think where they put it and get as much as possible out of it. IMHO it's better to concentrate on maybe on a bit fewer things than to spread too thin."

 

So in short; if say like they have certain amount of time and words per companion set, they would be wasting probably half if not more of those words for romance which less players would actually play, instead of having all the resourced words and time for non-romantic relationship.

 

We're not talking just about one companion but four out of seven.

 

All players could enjoy the friendship-like content but romance-content could be enjoyed only those who likes them and IMHO it would waste of already limited resources.

Spess Merhenn

Spess Merhenn

Posted
Posted

Let's not take the Mass Effect route. If you want a dating sim, by all means go out and play a dating sim, but in this genre romance isn't really appropriate.

  • Like 1

There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.

sorophx

sorophx

Posted
Posted

Please let it go. Please.

this. a million times this.

 

keep fighting the good fight, Monty!

  • Like 1
Walsingham said:

I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.

Monkcrab

Monkcrab

Posted
Posted

I think a big problem in this thread is that the concept of in-game 'romance' is being slung around in all kinds of ways, ranging from the extremes of the Bioware approach to just a few lines of dialogue, so let's speak in the narrowest sense: how much time do you think it cost the development team of Planescape: Torment to put in the Annah romance?

 

I'm guessing not long. And yet in doing so they gave more depth to both the Nameless One and Annah. Nothing more than subtext and a single kiss was needed. Not the most satisfying CRPG romance, of course, but in such a case I think less is definitely more.

 

Annah's attraction to TNO has to be worked into a lot of her dialogues. It's not as sudden as you make it; yes, the dialogues where TNO gets her to confess it to him was basically 1-3 choices, but her hot-cold reception to him had been ongoing for a while and even if they could be interpreted as something else, it's obviously for the benefit of the romance. There's quite a bit of subtext, and subtext takes as much time to develop as text, if not more.

Sword Sharpener of the Obsidian Order

(will also handle pitchforks and other sharp things)

Merin

Merin

Posted
  • Author
Posted

There should be an option to just create a poll without allowing any comments for these romance threads

You're right. I feel for all of the poor people who open the thread and see all of the comments against their will.

 

I'm really not seeing what I'm assuming are the bad ones. I know the culprits, and they are on /ignore. It makes reading the thread REALLY easy.

jarpie

jarpie

Posted
Posted

There should be an option to just create a poll without allowing any comments for these romance threads

You're right. I feel for all of the poor people who open the thread and see all of the comments against their will.

 

I'm really not seeing what I'm assuming are the bad ones. I know the culprits, and they are on /ignore. It makes reading the thread REALLY easy.

 

Everyone who disagrees with you?

  • Like 6
Jiraboas

Jiraboas

Posted
Posted (edited)

Obsidian: Please do a statement about this topic.

 

The first 1 or 2 treads about this: okay! Im fine with it! But this is rediculous!

 

Stop opening every day a new "romance yes/no?" tread. I cant stand it.

 

Please Obsidian! Stop this, only you have the power to do so ;)

 

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

Edited by Jiraboas
Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted (edited)

Obsidian: Please do a statement about this topic.

 

The first 1 or 2 treads about this: okay! Im fine with it! But this is rediculous!

 

Stop opening every day a new "romance yes/no?" tread. I cant stand it.

 

Please Obsidian! Stop this, only you have the power to do so ;)

 

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

 

It's odd but amusing how they never let it go. One thing they should do is just disable polls in this forum, heh.

 

Oh and for a snicker - http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/14235800/8#14245252

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

SqueakyCat

SqueakyCat

Posted
Posted

Okay, I guess I'm ready to come out and play again.

 

Regarding romances -- as a general statement I would say no. Bioware, quite honestly, has ruined that aspect of gaming for me (not that I ever indulged in them much anyway). The whole 'diaper sex in a tent with 'poignant' background music' scenario is pandering and trite. Limited conversation and lack of a well-written backstory made them feel forced, contrived and superficial to me. By ME3, they went from trite to creepy -- again, my opinion, not necessarily yours.

 

If Obsidian looked to a game like BG2 for inspiration and kept 'romance' subtle and easily ignored, I wouldn't complain. It would not interfere with my enjoyment of the game and would give others an option to make their gaming experience more rewarding.

 

What I would really like (if they MUST be done) is something completely new -- not just another iteration of the same old cliche. I vote for something dark, brooding and unrequited (you know, just like in real life sometimes).

 

For those who are under the impression that it takes so little time to write/develop even a single character, this is from an interview with Feargus Urquhart on September 19th (someone posted it in the last romance thread, or maybe the one before, it's getting taxing just trying to keep track of them all for reference purposes).

 

“Romances take a lot of effort, and I don’t want to be cagey on romances at all. We don’t want to make them a stretch goal, it’s just a question of if we feel comfortable with the funding. We have to do them right. Some people were giving us flak about, you know, the goal to get to the first companion, class, race, and things like that. They weren’t completely wrong in their criticism, but we don’t have nefarious reasons behind it. If it’s a pretty in depth companion Chris Avellone, who is a pretty quick writer, is looking at 2 or 3 months just for writing it up.”

 

http://psotter.com/news/exclusive-interview-project-eternity-part-1/

Spess Merhenn

Spess Merhenn

Posted
Posted

 

Well, I guess that saves Obsidian from having to dedicate 4 NPCs to being love interests.

 

4 npcs?

One is bad

One is good

One is gay and bad

One is gay and good

 

This game needs some Bioware complexity.

There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.

Tale

Tale

Posted
Posted

Heh.

I honestly think this would be worth it if Avellone got a little petulant in his writing.
  • Like 3
"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Malcador

Malcador

Posted
Posted

This is hilarious:

 

Chris Avellone ‏@ChrisAvellone

@WeeMadAggie @davidgaider I say we go meta and have a romance with the concept of love itself

 

Well, I guess that saves Obsidian from having to dedicate 4 NPCs to being love interests.

 

At BSN -

 

DG-Romance.png

 

....

 

and I suddenly feel a disturbance in the force. :facepalm:

 

Isn't that your kin, thought that comment (said in jest I'm sure) would elicit joy from you.

 

I do agree with one of the comments there where the romance would be depressing and grimdark, heh.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Vargr Raekr

Vargr Raekr

Posted
Posted

I wrote this in the previous thread, but it got buried fairly quickly. Of the games listed as inspiration for project eternity (Arcanum, Temple of Elemental Evil, the first two Fallout games, the Infnity Engine games), only Shadows of Amn had direct romance. And this scene was, by far, the best done romance scene in the game:

 

http://youtu.be/Wdy-k_qLdQg

 

If romance can be used to drive a story forward like this, I don't think many would object. On the other hand, we know that the lead designers / writers on this project do not like writing companion romances. Perhaps it would be best to allow them to focus on the aspects of the game they are passionate about.

 

We should also bear in mind that there are non - romantic interrelationships possible as well. Do not underestimate the magic of friendship.

 

Big adventures, tons of fun, high charisma scores, faithful and strong. Sharing loot out, fighter bonus feats, and magic makes it all complete!

 

In all seriousness, the companions will almost certainly be written. And there is a fair likelihood of there being some sort of friendship system (Arcanum, KOTOR II, Alpha Protocol, and even the Dragon Age series all experiemented with variants of this.) If well written companions and a more semsible friendship tracking system is what the Project Eternity developers are passionate about doing (and they are the best in the industry at this sort of thing!) then I would rather have a game with these features then another middle of the road romance track.

 

Added ponies for audacity. Because ponies.

  • Like 3
Crusty

Crusty

Posted
Posted

It's like I'm really posting on BSN. SAN loss imminent.

It's not so bad. You get used to it. The loss of sanity I mean.

 

You never get used to the BSN.

  • Like 2
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