Mega dungeon (didn't see anyone make it a poll and Obsidian said it'd be a good idea to do a poll...)

[Aedelric]

To be honest, walking around in a dungeon for hours at a time is fairly boring, same walls and floor room after room, cave after cave.

 

If a mega dungeon was included it would have to be diverse to keep it interesting and fresh.

[nikolokolus]

So I take it there aren't too many folks from the AD&D 1st ed. era lurking about here who might have played Tomb of Horrors?, or perhaps delved into Undermountain in a 2nd ed. PnP game?

 

Ah the memories and the dying ... mostly the dying.

[Cantousent]

You should see Monte's thread from yesterday, nik. We all got into it for a long time, although I was a bit lubricated and mixed up White Plume with Barrier Peaks.

[KenThomas]

IMO a mega dungeon would be sweet if it's crafted with inspiration and the different parts of it all have a purpose. Extra long hallways that are there just to take time to walk through are silly. Generally in any dungeon I think part of good design is;

 

-easy to find ways to get down, but harder to find ways to get up. If you are able to drop through the floor somewhere, guards on the floor below should be mostly looking the wrong way as you've gotten behind them. That should last until you open a door that's unguarded on the side you opened it because then you've gotten to the spot in the level that's past where you dropped in.

 

-Traps should be present and should work both ways. You should be able to use traps against the inhabitants if you've noticed them before tripping them. Good AI design would have them knowing and avoiding the location of their own traps, but you could use that to force them to eat an AOE spell since they'd be unwilling to cross that section of floor to escape.

 

-The dungeon should have some kind of purpose in the game world. Jail is an overused idea, I'd like to see something more like a manufacturing centre that perhaps is making use of lava vents for an essentially infinite supply of heat. Perhaps a stronghold of one of the major factions in the game including several ranking members of that faction. If it ends up being a monster's lair, I'd like to see the rooms used for something even if its only storing captives for breeding purposes. Endless tunnels of pointless rock would be nice to avoid.

 

-Some kind of fast transit inside the dungeon itself once you've obtained the proper keys or opened the proper doors. It's unrealistic to expect that in order to get to the commander's headquarters of whatever this place is an underling is going to jog for an hour around the most circuitous route possible of every level. There should be a short way guarded by the toughest enemies and toughest traps. Desire to clear out the entire place should come from a desire to ruin its functionality, ie killing craftsmen, burning equipment etc. otherwise, you run into problems later in the game because that centre was restaffed and is still doing whatever its purpose is.

 

-Quest items that get picked up there and are able to be used outside of that setting. IE plans for a weapon prototype that you could take back to your faction and manufacture for your side's use. Eggs of the foul creature that can be tamed and bred by your faction eventually into soldiers or mounts or something. Information on where other resources might be located. The names of people who are working as spies. The kinds of things that people would store in a location assumed to be secure. Some of them you should have to interrupt an NPC before he can dispose of them.

[Karranthain]

Yes please! Though possibly as a stretch goal, as it would most likely consume a lot of resources to construct one.

[Monte Carlo]

It needs reiterating - the Deep Roads in DA:O were not, in any way shape or form, mega-dungeons.

 

They were tunnels.

 

A mega-dungeon requires:

 

Size

Back-Story

Dungeon Ecology

Traps

Puzzles

Loot (oh yes)

Cool monsters

Even cooler boss monsters

Exploration

WTF moments of sheer excitement

 

---

 

I hope you get my drift.

[Karranthain]

Deep Roads are a useful example how NOT TO build big dungeons

[silvercross]

No. I hate dungeon crawls. I was one of those people who hated Watcher's Keep. Sometimes, I even debate whether or not to install Throne of Bhaal when I replay BG because I hated Watcher's Keep that much.

[veryblackraven]

I really liked Durlag's Tower and The Watcher's Keep in BG 1 and 2. But IMO such dungeon should be completely optional. Some small side-quest is ok, just to show you where the dungeon is, but the rest should be up to you to explore or not.

[Thulean]

I vote yes for a megadungeon. Dungeoneering is my favorite aspect of RPG's. I do not think clearing it out should be mandatory but make entering it a part of the story and then people can decide if they wish to delve deeper on their own.

[dan107]

This is a pretty biased poll. Where is the option to say, I DO care and I DON'T want a mega dungeon?

[Gyges]

Massive-giant-collossoal-oh god im so lost where does this end-dungeon PLEASE

[dan107]

Otherwise, it will just be a tedious time-sink like the Deep Roads.

 

I thought the Deep Roads actually worked pretty well in the context of the game. They were supposed to be a miserable place and an expedition through them should feel like a long and highly unpleasant affair. I think it can be good game design to create an area that makes a player feel worn out and impatient to get it over with, if that's what the character is supposed to feel while traversing through it. Obviously that has to be done very carefully, but I though the Deep Roads pulled it off. However, by no stretch of the imagination can they be considered a mega dungeon.

Edited September 22, 2012 by dan107

[Umberlin]

Otherwise, it will just be a tedious time-sink like the Deep Roads.

 

I thought the Deep Roads actually worked pretty well in the context of the game. They were supposed to be a miserable place and an expedition through them should feel like a long and highly unpleasant affair. I think it can be good game design to create an area that makes a player feel worn out and impatient to get it over with, if that's what the character is supposed to feel while traversing through it. Obviously that has to be done very carefully, but I though the Deep Roads pulled it off. However, by no stretch of the imagination can they be considered a mega dungeon.

 

Unpleasant affair? A game should never feel like an unpleasant affair. A game should be fun. The area wasn't terrible due the story and lore intending it to be an unpleasant experience, it was unpleasant to go through due to things that had nothing to do with the lore or story or characters. It was unpleasant on a gameplay, mechanical level.

 

-

 

This has nothing to do with the idea of a large mega dungeon though, pulled off well it could be a great deal of fun. I'm for there being a story thread that has you do something there, to introduce you to it, but I'd prefer the story not involve it. Rather acting as a side thing you could do, or not do, as you please. It would need to be very well crafted, in my mind, because . . . honestly when I look for something in PE it's not a dungeon crawler. It's a Role-playing game. People mix up dungeon crawlers with role-playing games far too often.

 

So if it's there it needs to fit, and there needs to be more to it than just combat. Maybe dialogue, but the first thought that comes to mind are 'challenges' puzzles, riddles and mysteries to solve sort of thing. Combat too? Sure. But if it's just combat . . . no. As for the combat that's there it should be the absolute in challenging, the kind that grinding and powerful items won't save you from, the kind that can only be overcome with absolute strategy and planning, tactical thinking prior to combat and on your toes.

 

I don't want a randomly generated combat fest. That's not what I play an RPG for, and anyone that does isn't looking to play an RPG at all as far as I'm concerned.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Umberlin

[Jarmo]

So.. let's assume Obsidian decides a big ass dungeon that isn't essential to the story, is actually spreading resources too thin.

Better to just polish up the main game to a higher degree. (Shockingly, this is actually my opinion.)

 

So if the question came down to:

 

1. No Mega Dungeon

2. Mega dungeon as a $2 DLC

 

 

That's not where we're at, not saying that. But if Ob decides no dungeon, what then?

Edited September 22, 2012 by Jarmo

[Monte Carlo]

If they decide not to and add it as DLC I'd be cool with that. Both of the big dungeons in the BG saga were add-ons.

 

Having said that, I think a lot of folks would like a mega-dungeon. But they could just as easily put a part of the dungeon in the core game then expand it in DLC (remember the mysterious door in Kuldahar in IWD?).

[Dianjabla]

Something like Durlags Tower or Watchers Keep would be good. Durlags Tower I like the atmosphere of and the puzzles pretty much forced you to learn the story behind it.

[Continuity]

This is a really cool idea, voted for yes as a stretch goal, and partially mandatory.

[BSoda]

You know if you ask a "yes or no" question you really should supply a way to answer "no". Not 4 different options, 3 being "yes please" and 1 "I don't care but yes go ahead".

 

I hate mega dungeons with a passion and would have voted "no" if I could. Long, extended loot runs with tons of filler combat without much diaolgue/choices/story in between is simply not my idea of fun in RPGs.

Edited September 22, 2012 by BSoda

[Nonek]

On the fence about this, I thought that some of the best dungeons i've ever experienced were the vaults in New Vegas. Though small they each told a very strong (sometimes quite bloody harrowing) story and even though they were not particularly long, that sense of involvement made them very intensive. At the end i'd emerge with a "phew" of relief, just because it was good to be rid of the particular vibe undercutting them.

 

Too often during fantasy games i'll roll my eyes when the obligatory underdark entrance appears, to the point where i'm slowly beginning to develop racist/speciesist tendencies towards the non existent Drow, Illithid and such like. It's almost always a seemingly never ending slog through far too much combat and far too little content. That said i'm sure Obsidian could pull off an engrossing and immersive (you see what I did there?) subterannean complex if they put their minds to it, the Weeping Stones was very good.

[nikolokolus]

Only bumping because this topic is being actively discussed in a parallel thread and perhaps some folks missed it.

[Ieo]

Only bumping because this topic is being actively discussed in a parallel thread and perhaps some folks missed it.

 

Oops, did miss this. Should be merged (mod cleanup in aisle 3?) My preference. I liked Durlag's Tower implementation: interesting layered narrative but still optional.

[TCJ]

I would prefer that mega dungeons are left out and that any epic fights and nice loot just be spread out in other areas of the game.

[Stun]

I voted yes, but only because there wasn't a: "Yes, and please put in more than one!" option.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Stun

[Starglider]

Watcher's Keep and the Modron Cube were both great fun. Anything along those lines would be good. That said, this is a very good candidate for DLC rather than causing scope creep in the core game.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Starglider