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Traps: do we have to have them?

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My hope is that there are traps and that there's more flexibility in dealing with them than always having a thief in the group.

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I am hoping for a well developed Rogue type class, so I would also like traps to challenge a characters skills. Hell, let me set traps around my camp at night, so I might actually survive.

 

 

 

edit: Rouge=Rogue

Edited by Muzrub333

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Placing traps and drawing your enemies into them is loads of fun. I used this extensively in DAO. And KotOR's final battle with Malak could be won without any traditional combat at all, and just laying mines instead.


God used to be my co-pilot, but then we crashed in the Andes and I had to eat him.

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Traps are pretty much standard fare in RPGs and they do get boring unless part of a puzzle. The only interesting ones I have come across were in a game called Return to Krondor. They were combined with lock picking. You had a lock picking kit with different instruments. There a variety of different locks and you had to use different instruments to pick them. Using the wrong instrument could set off a bomb or gas that could cause you damage, sometimes seriously.

 

Yeah that was decent, great game by the way. The best traps I've seen recently was in Dark Souls. Check out a youtube of Sen's Fortress:

 

That's a first person perspective game but there's no reason traps of that nature can't be put into a top down view game.

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I like trapping NPC's in a conversation. Feeding them information which leads them to an actual or metaphorical trap.

 

It would be good to setup ambushes. Find out where someone works or lives, the schedule of an event, plan it out then execute it - very satisfying.

 

Why limit traps to mechanical, magical traps are also great

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When thinking of adventuring traps immediately come to mind.

 

I'd love it if one class, say a ranger (if it's in the game, that is), could plant them too.

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I loved the traps in NwN:HotU. Not all of the traps were regular "step here and it hurts you"-traps. The more sneaky ones were cooler. Like the mirror room in the first level.

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I'd like to see some environmental challenges, like walls shooting spikes on a timer, pressure plates that set off a spell in a different part of the room which freezes lava for you to walk across, spiked logs swinging from chains across your path etc.

 

Doing that all the time would get frustrating pretty fast, but it might be nice to have the occasional room o death leading up to an intelligent enemy in their domain or to get to some kind of treasure that has been protected by all those traps.

Edited by KenThomas

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

In modern RPGs, you are correct. But traps used to be lethal in the IE games. Very lethal. Durlag's tower (BG1, tales of the sword coast expansion) had dozens of traps that could instantly decimate your entire party several times over if you accidently stepped over them. The result is that the dungeon puts the fear of god into people, forcing them to stop, pay attention, and take it nice and slow. This plays into the atmosphere of the entire setting. Fear is not the easiest thing to capture well in a computer game.

 

Personally, I want to see traps and a trap disarming mechanic, but only if its done right - like it was back in the day

Edited by Stun
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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

In modern RPGs, you are correct. But traps used to be lethal in the IE games. Very lethal. Durlag's tower (BG1, tales of the sword coast expansion) had dozens of traps that could instantly decimate your entire party several times over if you accidently stepped over them.

 

and that was fun?


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

 

I actually really like the traps in Dungeons and Dragons Online, because they are actual physical THINGS you can avoid. They also are indiscriminate--they hit monsters just as much as party members. (Also you can set your own traps if you're so inclined.) So using and dealing with traps becomes a fun and tactical part of gameplay, BUT they don't mean "you must have a rogue in the party at all times" because you CAN always circumvent the traps without searching/disarming if you are so inclined. If you do have a trapper, though, they grant up to 15% extra xp from the quest, so it can be nice to disarm them when possible.

 

That being said, I don't think they're a necessary element of gameplay and if they decide to dispense with them, I won't get all teary-eyed.


Grand Rhetorist of the Obsidian Order

If you appeal to "realism" about a video game feature, you are wrong. Go back and try again.

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

Yes, I would like to have them. Just make anyone with high enought "awareness" or trap detection able to see them and disarn them. That was the biggest annoyance in NWN2, only rogues could do anything with them once they were over 20DC. Which they reached pretty early in the OC.

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

In modern RPGs, you are correct. But traps used to be lethal in the IE games. Very lethal. Durlag's tower (BG1, tales of the sword coast expansion) had dozens of traps that could instantly decimate your entire party several times over if you accidently stepped over them.

 

and that was fun?

When it was all said and done, yes. Much more engaging than, say, sprinting through empty corridors to reach the foozle, killing him and then looting his treasure with your false sense of accomplishment. And in the case of Durlag's tower, the application of "you face death with every step" actually made sense, storywise. Durlag was a dwarf who was driven mad with extreme paranoia. Consequently, he turned his home into a deadly trap-filled labrynth to keep out intruders. It was meaningful, and refreshing for us to be able to witness, first hand, the scope of that paranoia, instead of just reading about it, as is usually the case in crpg stories.

 

To Obsidian: Promise me a dungeon in PE that reminds me of Durlag's tower, and I'll up my donation by $100 tonight.

Edited by Stun

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Ah, but I love traps! All those annoying, peevy ways to kill you off unexpectedly! :p

 

I think it's fair to say there will probably be traps, since virtually all of the titles Project Eternity is taking inspiration from have traps in one form or another. Even Fallout had traps.


"Understanding is a three-edged blade."

"Vivis sperandum: Where there is life, there is hope."

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Traps are either made to kill or to capture, so they should be something to be wary of.

 

I'd like to see them as a skill to figure out how to build them out of your surroundings, rather than a pile of mechanic parts and junk that you can't possibly carry because of their weight.

Edited by Kopi

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

In modern RPGs, you are correct. But traps used to be lethal in the IE games. Very lethal. Durlag's tower (BG1, tales of the sword coast expansion) had dozens of traps that could instantly decimate your entire party several times over if you accidently stepped over them.

 

and that was fun?

 

Yes, yes it was actually. Sure, I was swearing like a sailor when my whole party got decimated, but man, when I got through it, I felt like a boss.

 

It just makes sense for a dungeon or whatever to have tons of traps. Anybody remember the Labyrinth or Irenicus's room in BG2? There are also instances where traps could be used as part of the plot/world. A la Nameless One's tomb in Planescape Torment. (You can PM if you want to know what I mean. Not posting it here in case some people don't want to spoil themselves.)

 

BTW, I almost never set traps or used traps myself in ANY game I've played. (Unless a quest required me or something.)

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Your trapper should be able to spot a trap. What I've never seen in a game until now is that you, after you spotted them, could trigger them from a save distance with i.e. a piece of wood or a pebble. That is the most logical step to do if you are unable to circumvent or disarm them through skill.

 

I haven't yet seen a system that I really like.

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

In modern RPGs, you are correct. But traps used to be lethal in the IE games. Very lethal. Durlag's tower (BG1, tales of the sword coast expansion) had dozens of traps that could instantly decimate your entire party several times over if you accidently stepped over them.

 

and that was fun?

 

Yes, yes it was actually. Sure, I was swearing like a sailor when my whole party got decimated, but man, when I got through it, I felt like a boss.

 

It just makes sense for a dungeon or whatever to have tons of traps. Anybody remember the Labyrinth or Irenicus's room in BG2? There are also instances where traps could be used as part of the plot/world. A la Nameless One's tomb in Planescape Torment. (You can PM if you want to know what I mean. Not posting it here in case some people don't want to spoil themselves.)

 

BTW, I almost never set traps or used traps myself in ANY game I've played. (Unless a quest required me or something.)

 

i havent played BG but i know the nameless one's tomb level. that was more of a puzzle than a trapmaniac level. was it fun? meh. did i feel like a boss? not at all :)

i remember one level full of traps from arcanum. it was in one of the dwarf clan undergrounds. but the level was quite stupid as the devs gave us all kinds of trap illuminating scrolls here and there.


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I dislike how Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 did traps in general, but they did do one thing right: If you were a character who lacked trap removal skills, you could destroy the trap with a ranged weapon or spell. I thought that was cool.

Edited by Stun

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Your trapper should be able to spot a trap. What I've never seen in a game until now is that you, after you spotted them, could trigger them from a save distance with i.e. a piece of wood or a pebble. That is the most logical step to do if you are unable to circumvent or disarm them through skill.

 

I haven't yet seen a system that I really like.

 

My brother in PnP came up with the novel solution of using the bodies of the goblins we'd just killed to set off traps. Good times, good times... :)

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Traps: do we have to have them?
Absolutely.

 

My brother in PnP came up with the novel solution of using the bodies of the goblins we'd just killed to set off traps. Good times, good times... :)
Clearly you had never heard of the good ol' Ten foot pole. Edited by Luckmann

t50aJUd.jpg

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One think I love when I am DM in P&P RPGs and plan adventure for my friends is to plan different kinds of traps... Then when we play the game it's always fun to watch how they try invent ways to disable my traps... they go full on MacGyver mode and start to invent all sorts of devices that they can use to disarm or launch trap without danger...

That's the issue right there. In a P&P setting, you're free to use your imagination and figure out clever ways to bypass and disarm traps. In a CRPG, you're limited by the game system which consists of:

1) Select Rogue

2) Click Disarm Trap

 

Trap rooms, where you have to solve a puzzle to proceed, are good. Traps you can place in combat to add a tactical option are good. Traps randomly littered around dungeons are just tedious busywork that tries to justify having a rogue in your party (or horribly punishes you for not having one). All it does is needlessly slow down the game.

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