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molarBear

Traps: do we have to have them?

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I hope to see traps, even if they are only done in a BG/IWD style mode. May not be the most amazing way to handle it, but it includes another type of challenge to the game that you end up needing to rely on other people/a different skill set for.

 

Is it a must have? Probably not.

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I think so. Traps, and trap placement, are ultimately a part of level design. If they aren't placed well, then its a reflection of either poor level design or that traps were an afterthought. I thought some of the traps in BGT were well place and forced me to really use my rogue to scout ahead for traps constantly. My only problem with traps is that due to their static nature, they tend to be the most repetitive part of replays.

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I never used traps in Neverwinter Nights or other rpgs with my character/party members nor do I think they are a vital part of leveldesign. So I really wouldn't miss them.

On the other hand it wouldn't bother me if they were implemented.


English is not my first language, so please forgive me any mistakes!

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Dungeons full of deadly traps are a staple of the fantasy genre. Even if they're used sparingly, they should be used.


"It is an extraordinary act of courage to come to know a stranger's pain. To even consider such a thing demands a profound dispensation, a willingness to wear someone else's chains, to taste their suffering, to see with one's own eyes the hue cast on all things -- the terrible stain that is despair."

 

-Tulas Shorn

"Toll the Hounds" by Steven Erikson

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I love setting up ambushes as a rogue character. I wouldn't mind if traps in the world are rare, though. It would be more realistic if they're rare and deadly than just a nuisance.

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Traps are good, they stop you run like headless chicken in dungeons, sometimes level desingers make absolute brilliant trap ideas (like Indiana Jones Last Crusade brilliant). So yes I want see traps. But I don't mind if they make better trap detection and laying sytem to Project Eternity than what we have seen in cRPGs previously.

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I think traps are OK... where it makes sense that somebody would construct and install a hidden trap.

 

The question the becomes whether the gameworld would support enough instances of this happening to make trap detection/removal a viable, balanced skill for PCs/NPCs to invest in. D&D-type games have often put the cart before the horse, in this respect-- you see a lot of traps because the developers want to justify investment in the skill, rather than because it makes to do so sense in the context of the gameworld.

 

That said, detecting and disarming traps doesn't often make for an especially deep or fun gameplay experience. If the presence of a trap merely feels like punishment for not investing sufficient resources into a skill, I don't think the developers have done their job very well. (See: most of Durlag's Tower.) If a trap is instead part of an overall interesting encounter design, though, it can help. (I'm thinking of that IWD2 map with the drums, here.)

Edited by Enoch
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Smart traps are fun. The suiciding one in Planescape ruled f.e.. They are like mini puzzles.

Normal traps can be a hindrance if you are replaying, but can be solved making them appear semi random (random, but in designed places) in the dungeon.

But maybe the best are the combat traps: those that you or the enemys thiefs can put to zone control or ambush.

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almost exclusively every cRPG has traps and trap detection/disable skill. i have never seen traps implemented in an ingenious way that we actually care to bother at all. do we have to have them?

 

For a second there I thought this was another transgender thread...


"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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Traps are tied to the existence of a thief/rogue class and its specific skills. If there are rogues in PE, there will be traps.

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One think I love when I am DM in P&P RPGs and plan adventure for my friends is to plan different kinds of traps and explanations what players can detect with succesful detection/find/etc. roll. Then when we play the game it's always fun to watch how they try invent ways to disable my traps, can I rise this door from it's hinges and carry it like shield in front of me so that arrows from that trap can't hit me and etc.. And when they go full on MacGyver mode and start to invent all sorts of devices that they can use to disarm or launch trap without danger it can solving one trap take whole game night but be still very fun night, usually much more fun than those which conist mostly about fights.

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one way i see that can justify the investment on trap skills is that they should be quite deadly. then you are forced to have a thief character in your party. but this doesn't mean that they will not be a nuisance to you. "go couple of yards and omg deadly trap! disable and carry on. then again and again and again" :getlost:

Edited by molarBear

"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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There MUST be traps! though they should be rare enough to be unusual, though deadly enough to feared.

 

Slime Traps!

Arrow Traps!

Entangle Traps!

Fireball Traps!

Bunny Traps (it dumps rabid bunnies on you).

Charm traps!

 

And many many more!.

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One think I love when I am DM in P&P RPGs and plan adventure for my friends is to plan different kinds of traps and explanations what players can detect with succesful detection/find/etc. roll. Then when we play the game it's always fun to watch how they try invent ways to disable my traps, can I rise this door from it's hinges and carry it like shield in front of me so that arrows from that trap can't hit me and etc.. And when they go full on MacGyver mode and start to invent all sorts of devices that they can use to disarm or launch trap without danger it can solving one trap take whole game night but be still very fun night, usually much more fun than those which conist mostly about fights.

 

ok, i'm game if obsidian can actually implement this :)


"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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I rarely place traps when playing as a rogue, but I like scouting ahead of the party and disarming them. It's fun and it's a nice change of pace.

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obsidian-shield.jpg

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The best traps are logically designed, yes. But I really like having even generic traps as something I can lay, it really expands the tactical options as they're one of the few things that really uses the terrain.

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Just don't put an entire skill/skill tree dedicated to finding them and disabling them, please *. That's almost never interesting gameplay-wise, and often feels like an excuse to make you waste points. IIRC Fallout 3/New Vegas tie traps into repair, and that was a good choice imo.

 

* I'm referring to a traditional implementation of traps, a-là IE titles/Fallout/Arcanum. If Obsidian can think of a more interesting way to implement them, I'm all ears.

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Traps are pretty much standard fare in RPGs and they do get boring unless part of a puzzle. The only interesting ones I have come across were in a game called Return to Krondor. They were combined with lock picking. You had a lock picking kit with different instruments. There a variety of different locks and you had to use different instruments to pick them. Using the wrong instrument could set off a bomb or gas that could cause you damage, sometimes seriously.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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Just don't put an entire skill/skill tree dedicated to finding them and disabling them, please *. That's almost never interesting gameplay-wise, and often feels like an excuse to make you waste points. IIRC Fallout 3/New Vegas tie traps into repair, and that was a good choice imo.

 

* I'm referring to a traditional implementation of traps, a-là IE titles/Fallout/Arcanum. If Obsidian can think of a more interesting way to implement them, I'm all ears.

or give the skill to rangers so the thieves can specialize in other departments

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