Do not make the game isometric

[LordCrash]

"Please Obsidian, don't do what you have announced on kickstarter and what you have promised to your kickstarter backers....."

 

Senseless thread....

[HansKrSG]

This game has been promised to be like the old IE games, and I hope they stick to that. 3d-backgrounds, rotatable cameras, cutscenes and whatnot will not help, but rather do harm to this game. Like someone said, 2d "handpainted" scenes will look more varied than 3d backgrounds made of the same set of models. Cutscenes belong in a movie, not in a game, I am sick and tired of games trying to be movies.

[Starglider]

Pre-rendered is technically much easier, because you don't have to worry about polygon count or shader power for the target machine. You can render with ultra-high-polycount raytracing, touch up in photoshop as desired, export a low-poly lighting mesh and it will work on all PCs (and free up more GPU power for rendering the characters / 3D objects). It would be nice to be able to able to rotate the camera in 90 degree steps, or just flip it 180 degrees, both to be able to see the back side of buildings / objects and to handle the cases where your party is obscured (in an alleyway etc) better. This is definitely a luxury feature though.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Starglider

[TwinkieGorilla]

Can I interrupt just to say how much I love that there is a thread titled as it is titled...in this ****ing forum?

[Meshugger]

I was about to post a long rant about this thread, but 'lo and behold i found a song that channels the same feelings sonically and lyrically:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zd_ryNVkKU

[Shadenuat]

I think there is not enough irony for casual internet stalker not familiar with Kickstarter. That logo above should say "Project Eternity - isometric party based RPG". That would be absolutely feng shui.

[Haerski]

@Jarpie: "Of course they are somewhat blocky but it doesn't really matter because nowdays with the widescreen mod they're not even that big. What ugly distortion? do you mean when old games which are in 4:3 resolution are scaled to the 16:9 or 16:10 monitor? Some monitors have the setting where it leaves black bars on the sides and centers the image but you're probably gonna say "But oh noes! Can't stand those black bars! teh horror!".

 

 

No, I mean distortion which occurs when monitor scales non-native resolution Image to monitors native resolution. Do you understand? If my monitors y Axis has 1080 pixels and BG has only 600, monitor has to "stretch" those pixels so the image fits my monitors y axis, which is going to result as distortions in the final Image I get on my screen. I'm not talking about black boxes. Those don't bother me at all.

 

BTW, I think this conversation is drifting off the point here.

[LordCrash]

"Obsidian, I like your kickstarter project but please don't make it isometric!"

is comparable to

"Father, I like that bible book but I don't like that Jesus guy in it, could you excise him?"

 

Edited September 28, 2012 by LordCrash

[Tauron]

I didnt mind if game would be done all in 3D as I hoped for destructable enviroment and other "visuals" etc. and as long as it is playable in spirit of mentioned games. Still, if we have to choose betwean all stunning visuals, reactive "organic" enviroment and great story, companions, quest, gameplay etc, I choose the latter. Becouse it is becouse of that I remeber the classics games.

 

For some reason I find BG series and IWD series worlds more 'believable' and appealing, than I did Elder scrolls games whn I look back. Whn morrow wind came out, I was like OMG OMG OMG!

Now it is just meeh, I cant play this, it just doesnt feel right next to skyrim...while over the years I was able to return to BG and it was always that good feeling. Cant explain it, but there is something about the storytelling in those classics and playing it feels like you are looking at concept art, small painting just coming to life. I dont know...there is still some magic in the way those games were made, even if graphics were outdated by todays standard.

 

If they make entire game in 3D is fine as long they deliver what we love about the classics, and some people love prerendered I guess :D

[jarpie]

@Jarpie: "Of course they are somewhat blocky but it doesn't really matter because nowdays with the widescreen mod they're not even that big. What ugly distortion? do you mean when old games which are in 4:3 resolution are scaled to the 16:9 or 16:10 monitor? Some monitors have the setting where it leaves black bars on the sides and centers the image but you're probably gonna say "But oh noes! Can't stand those black bars! teh horror!".

 

 

No, I mean distortion which occurs when monitor scales non-native resolution Image to monitors native resolution. Do you understand? If my monitors y Axis has 1080 pixels and BG has only 600, monitor has to "stretch" those pixels so the image fits my monitors y axis, which is going to result as distortions in the final Image I get on my screen. I'm not talking about black boxes. Those don't bother me at all.

 

BTW, I think this conversation is drifting off the point here.

 

At least Nvidia's drivers has "Adjust desktop size and position" settings where you can choose "Scaling" and "Aspect ratio" which keeps the aspect ratio of the resolution intact and fills the rest with black bars, "Fullscreen" fills the screen with the full image and distorts the image and "No scaling" in which it doesnt scale the resolution and fills the rest with the black around the screen if the resolution is smaller than the resolution of the monitor.

 

Example:

[Haerski]

At least Nvidia's drivers has "Adjust desktop size and position" settings where you can choose "Scaling" and "Aspect ratio" which keeps the aspect ratio of the resolution intact and fills the rest with black bars, "Fullscreen" fills the screen with the full image and distorts the image and "No scaling" in which it doesnt scale the resolution and fills the rest with the black around the screen if the resolution is smaller than the resolution of the monitor.

 

Exactly. And when in future we have those 4k monitors you are going to play BG in a box about the size of stamp in the middle of your screen?

 

I don't think this is going anywhere. I have stated my opinion and I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Haerski

[Gecimen]

Isometric please.. well if it was me i'd go with old school pixel art with 2nd option being hand illustrated backdrops.

[jarpie]

At least Nvidia's drivers has "Adjust desktop size and position" settings where you can choose "Scaling" and "Aspect ratio" which keeps the aspect ratio of the resolution intact and fills the rest with black bars, "Fullscreen" fills the screen with the full image and distorts the image and "No scaling" in which it doesnt scale the resolution and fills the rest with the black around the screen if the resolution is smaller than the resolution of the monitor.

 

Exactly. And when in future we have those 4k monitors you are going to play BG in a box about the size of stamp in the middle of your screen?

 

I don't think this is going anywhere. I have stated my opinion and I have nothing more to say on this matter.

 

Didn't you see the picture I put? As you complained that BG with 800x600 resolution gets stretched out and distorted, I tried to show that it can be scaled up to fill the screen vertically, keep the image undistorted and fill the sides with black as 800x600 is in 4:3 and the monitor is 16:9/16:10.

 

As Project Eternity will most probably support both 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions (as 1920x1080 and 1920x1200) it can be scaled to fill the future monitors (for example resolution 4096x3072 which is 16:9) without black bars.

[Gecimen]

you must not have played it, too bad

I did, actually. I always found it ugly, especially when it comes to 2D backdrop and world exploration.

3D battles are (were) the only decent looking parts.

Beside, I never liked the game itself that much *AND* FF XII looks actually far better (even if it has some hideous character design and the game is a borefest).

 

FF7 BGs are ugly?....

Better get some glasses man.

[TrashMan]

Project Eternity is pitched as an Isometric game.

Guy suports game.

Asks for it to not be isometric.

 

...

 

 

I REPEAT:

Edited September 29, 2012 by TrashMan

[Merin]

Pacifica!

[Nakia]

Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment.

From Kickstarter Page. Those of us who pledged in the first 28 hours do so because of Obsidian's reputation and this statement. We provided the initial 1.1 mil goal. We would be most unhappy if this promise was suddenly changed. Asking for a different game I find rather strange.

[mkreku]

Isometric and 3D are not mutually exclusive.

 

I'm not sure they advocated static 2D backgrounds when they made the Kickstarter (unless I missed that bit of information).

 

I would MUCH prefer 3D than 2D. 2D is like a painting, pretty but lifeless. 3D can (nowadays) be exactly as pretty as 2D, but with the gigantic advantage of having much more interaction potential. You know all those cool details you see in Planescape: Torment? Try picking something up in the bar. Try opening a door. Try kicking a barrel. It's lifeless and dead. With 3D they can add physics and interactivity to all these details.

[nikolokolus]

Isometric and 3D are not mutually exclusive.I'm not sure they advocated static 2D backgrounds when they made the Kickstarter (unless I missed that bit of information).I would MUCH prefer 3D than 2D. 2D is like a painting, pretty but lifeless. 3D can (nowadays) be exactly as pretty as 2D, but with the gigantic advantage of having much more interaction potential. You know all those cool details you see in Planescape: Torment? Try picking something up in the bar. Try opening a door. Try kicking a barrel. It's lifeless and dead. With 3D they can add physics and interactivity to all these details.

They aren't mutually exclusive, but they are from an art and style perspective.

 

If the developers want a more hand-painted look and feel for the game, then 3D environments baked into 2D and hand textured in places will give a much different tone than a isometric 3D game with physics and destructible environments. I think both have their place in games, but neither is flatly superior to the other for all applications.Moving away from the strictly Infinity games as a point of comparison and comparing Temple of Elemental Evil, I think it was about the best looking 2D environment with 3D models, axonometric game I think I've every played and I don't think it would have "felt" the same if it had been done in full 3D, with a zoom-able camera, and full support for physics.

Edited September 29, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Azrayel]

You can make a great RPG that has Wasteland-tier graphics, but I'm sure that's not the goal

 

Everything I've heard the devs say says that more or less IS their goal, and when the first screens come out, though they are sure to be lovely, I think a lot of pledgers are going to feel awkward because they didn't really understand the kind of game they were funding.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Azrayel

[Aedelric]

Isometric all the way, I want painted backgrounds, the only concession to modern graphics I am happy to entertain is 3D character models, so long as they aesthetically fit.

 

Project Eternity is not about beautiful graphics, it is about bringing back the RPG's we love.

[nikolokolus]

Isometric all the way, I want painted backgrounds, the only concession to modern graphics I am happy to entertain is 3D character models, so long as they aesthetically fit.

 

Project Eternity is not about beautiful graphics, it is about bringing back the RPG's we love.

 

If they make something approximating ToEE's art style (and that used 3D character models) that would be pretty fantastic; that game still looks great.

 

And while graphics might not be that important to you (and me) there are people who need some eye candy to play and enjoy a game. Absolutely gameplay and story should be the two main pillars of the game but it also needs a distinctive look and feel. It doesn't have to make your video card bleed, but there's no reason it can't look pleasing to the eye.

Edited September 29, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Merin]

You can make a great RPG that has Wasteland-tier graphics, but I'm sure that's not the goal

 

Everything I've heard the devs say says that more or less IS their goal, and when the first screens come out, though they are sure to be lovely, I think a lot of pledgers are going to feel awkward because they didn't really understand the kind of game they were funding.

 

Wasteland 2 graphics, maybe, but certainly not Wasteland.

 

 

 

 

 

That said - Obsidian said Infinity Engine and listed, specifically, Baldur's Gate...

 

 

... Icewind Dale ...

 

 

... and Planescape: Torment

 

[Ieo]

Why does this thread still exist?

 

Our backgrounds will be pre-rendered from high-detail 3D scenes and then touched up by hand as in the Infinity Engine games. Our characters and certain other objects (where it makes sense) will be rendered in 3D. Temple of Elemental Evil uses this type of combination.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Ieo

[Haerski]

Project Eternity is not about beautiful graphics, it is about bringing back the RPG's we love.

 

In my opinion Project Eternity should not be "about" neither of those. All it needs to be is a great RPG. Limiting your design choices just because "this is what we did 20 year ago" isn't very smart, is it? Whichever style they choose it should be based on what best serves the game they are making, not just nostalgia.