A suggestion for the romances you're considering (if any)

[Longknife]

Do you not become emotionally attached to characters in games you play? What about books or films? I thought that was the whole point of having characters in the first place.

 

But those characters typically gain affection because they stand for something; something we agree with. Even so, it's not a romantic, intimate and emotional attachment. At best, we might sadface when they die or get a little worked up over it, but romance is a step deeper. Romance is about someone special who you basically want to share your life with. Pulling that level of attachment off with an AI program is pretty unrealistic.

 

Likewise, I can sympathize with what Boone's been through, but you see, Boone doesn't spend the entire game going "let's go kill some Legionaires, sweetcheeks. <3" In my opinion, it IS awkward to be hearing an NPC call you honey or sweetie and to respond accordingly. These are empty words that don't serve their meaning properly, and thus I'd rather not have them, nor do I think they're an important time investment for such a game. Just my two cents.

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

If it is possible to create romances which have an integral or otherwise complimentary function to the game's storyline, I'm not opposed to them. For instance, Planescape's romances worked well because the story was driven in part by one and the others the player could pursue were an interesting parallel of either making the same old mistakes or trying to avoid them... and in the end there are no firm answers, either.

 

But romance, aside from being a fantasy B-movie staple, really does not fit into a realistic setting where a group of adventurers spend most of the time battling for their lives. We expect it because we expect romance in just about every story thanks to the magic of marketing and target demographics, but unless there is a good reason for romance to exist in the game, I would rather it stays as far away as possible. We ask all the same questions of other plot elements that are extraneous or meandering - why do we let cheap, fanservice romance get a pass?

 

In a nutshell - romance in a story should matter to the story. It should not be an end in and of itself. If hearing your companions call you "my dear" and giving them tender kisses warms your heart in the same way that actual, real love with another human being does, you probably have serious issues with your life and emotional state that you need to address.

Edited September 16, 2012 by sea

[Eonwe]

Romances are a given in games like this, but they don't all have to build up to a cheesy sex scene. Obsidian is in a unique position to actually write in classy romances. They don't have to oversexualize women, you could actually give a wrong answer that will end a romance, and not all romances have to end up resolved. There are a lot of shows/books/etc where there is tension between love interests, and even the characters involved realize this, but it is never resolved. Sometimes this makes the love angle even more interesting because there is an undertone to conversations rather than overtly saying 'YES WARDEN I LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU KILL DARKSPAWN AND YOU GAVE ME ENOUGH ITEMS.'

[duskwind]

Yeah, buying relationships with items isn't the best approach. Have NPCs whose attitude to you changes based on your choices during the game, including but not limited to what you say to them and to other NPCs. And make all romanceable characters PC-sexual; there's no reason to limit options based on your character's gender.

[lobotomy42]

I'd like to see the PC get shot down in attempts to start a relationship. IMO in most (if not all) games with romance options, the PC gets whatever the PC wants with the NPC.

 

This. If there are going to be romances - i.e. if the PC is going to go around looking for the "flirty" dialogue option - than it only makes sense that the PC will mis-read other characters and screw-up.

[The Sharmat]

Longknife: Guess it just amounts to different personalities. I can get attached to fictional characters in all the ways I could be attached to a real person...just to a lesser degree. Emotion-lite. Diet-attachment. Whatever. So I like seeing the full range of emotions and relationships. But if you don't, then that's fine and you naturally have no reason to want it as a feature. Different strokes.

[duskwind]

If hearing your companions call you "my dear" and giving them tender kisses warms your heart in the same way that actual, real love with another human being does, you probably have serious issues with your life and emotional state that you need to address.

 

I'm not my character. I like my character to be able to have romances the same way I like characters in books and TV shows to have romances.

[Flouride]

They should spend exactly 0% of development time on romances and spend every single dollar/hour budgeted to that on making the game/story/areas even better.

 

Period.

 

But but, I want to have sex with eveyone, even with the robots!

 

On a serious note, romances if done properly won't get me annoyed (read PS:T), but if it's done in a "cheap way" (looking at you BioWare) where every damn companion is yours to **** because they are all playersexual I will cry a river so long that it will cause a flood and drown people.

[DYWYPI]

My main problem with "modern" RPG romances - and character relationships in general, come to think of it - is how utterly divorced they tend to be from the overall narrative. If this game is going to have them, please, actually bring them up and make them feel relevant at times other than the pre-final-confrontation trash-talking and during each charater's Obligatory Companion Quest.

 

Also, bring back NPC-initiated dialogues, including romantic ones, if those are in the game at all. Nothing separates the NPC-relationship stuff from the rest of the game like having it all buried behind three tiers of "Hey, what do you want?" -> "I want to ask you something." -> "Let's talk about us.". NPCs don't feel like they have a life that doesn't revolve around the PC 24/7 if they rarely say anything without prompting.

[Grimlorn]

Romances are terrible in most (probably all) games and I question the sanity of anyone who demands them in their games. It's a game not a romance/sex simulator. Actually, it's just a sex simulator in Bioware games. You have 3 or 4 conversations with someone, then they are telling you they love you and you have sex with them and that is it. Who wants that?

[zrani]

BG2 and PS:T had great romances.

 

In BG2 your LI was killed, turned into a vampire, you were forced you to kill them as part of the main story line no matter which companion you romanced. A purely optional side quest allowed you to resurrect them but only if you had done a side quest earlier in the game. as a male character 1 of your LI's could become pregnant, one you could sleep with repeatedly except for one time, when doing so would end the romance forever because the LI sees the relationship as purely sexual and decides that's the end of it. The third LI is recently widowed and a little older than you.

 

In PS:T you could romance both LI's, Annah and FFG separately at the same time (and if you were careful they would not break it off). There was no sex but you promised to see them again (as one was an immortal succubus the other a tiefling) after serving hundreds (or thousands) of years in the blood war.

 

These romances are great, far better than a group of young, single, twenty something (equivalent) "playersexual" characters.

 

A romance done well adds a depth that cannot!!!!!!! be ignored and can make a game more impactfull and the characters three dimensional.

 

even (AND ONLY) DA:O's romances were ok. Eg. exploiting the glitch that allows you to romance morrigan, then lelliana, then zevran.

 

As long as the romance is complex, unique and not a minigame with ""perfect score you get to sleep with LI.....game finished"", romances should be included.

[Darji]

BG2 and PS:T had great romances.

 

In BG2 your LI was killed, turned into a vampire, you were forced you to kill them as part of the main story line no matter which companion you romanced. A purely optional side quest allowed you to resurrect them but only if you had done a side quest earlier in the game. as a male character 1 of your LI's could become pregnant, one you could sleep with repeatedly except for one time, when doing so would end the romance forever because the LI sees the relationship as purely sexual and decides that's the end of it. The third LI is recently widowed and a little older than you.

 

In PS:T you could romance both LI's, Annah and FFG separately at the same time (and if you were careful they would not break it off). There was no sex but you promised to see them again (as one was an immortal succubus the other a tiefling) after serving hundreds (or thousands) of years in the blood war.

 

These romances are great, far better than a group of young, single, twenty something (equivalent) "playersexual" characters.

 

A romance done well adds a depth that cannot!!!!!!! be ignored and can make a game more impactfull and the characters three dimensional.

 

even (AND ONLY) DA:O's romances were ok. Eg. exploiting the glitch that allows you to romance morrigan, then lelliana, then zevran.

 

As long as the romance is complex, unique and not a minigame with ""perfect score you get to sleep with LI.....game finished"", romances should be included.

 

Just perfect. I like this post^^

[Lady Evenstar]

For me it's really a resources issue. Flirtation/hints of romance would be great but basic character development is much more important to me. I don't want really getting to know my party members to be gated by romance. I also don't want romances sucking too many resources away from other aspects of the game. In a new franchise being developed on a limited budget I'm much more concerned about the depth of the world than I am about my character's love life.

[zrani]

For me it's really a resources issue. Flirtation/hints of romance would be great but basic character development is much more important to me. I don't want really getting to know my party members to be gated by romance. I also don't want romances sucking too many resources away from other aspects of the game. In a new franchise being developed on a limited budget I'm much more concerned about the depth of the world than I am about my character's love life.

 

While not essential for me, a romance adds to the effect my character has on the (hopefully) deep world and is part of basic character development.

 

Besides its an RPG i like my character to develop relationships with friends and LI's, in general my character is a listener not a loner.

 

I do however agree that a good friendship should not be gated by romancibility. See dakon or mort as friends in PST or ignus and nordom as a mentor.

[generic.hybridity]

Often the best developed characters/those with the most content are those with Romances. Which is why I am in favour of romances. If they can do deep Party interaction without romance (definitely possible) I would be equally satisfied.

[^Rayne^]

I definitely want to see Romance options available in the game. The lack of romances and companion interactions in Icewind Dale 1 & 2 were really my only gripes with those games. However, I prefer companions that are extremely deep and well written and complex compared to what I've seen in games lately. I would love to see a relationship handled as brilliantly as the one in Patrick Rothfuss' The Kingkiller Chronicle series between Kvothe and Denna. I want to be surprised by the events that unfold and I want these relationships to be integral to the story arc.

 

The romances that I'm finding in most games are fairly shallow and are basically only playing lip-service to what is really possible. It would be interesting if in the same ways you can toggle on certain feats or combat modes a player could turn on certain behavior modifiers like Flirtatious and then select who you as a player wanted to direct it to in the party. Then the designers could pick different places and moments in the game where this behavior might trigger conversations or actions that are connected uniquely with what a place and a time. If a player later developed a strong affinity to a particular companion these toggles might also allow for special actions in the game like trying to protect the companion from harm or giving the player the option to select emotional responses if their romantic attachment was suddenly flirting with another NPC.

 

My longwinded point is that I would prefer a few well thought out romances over the option to romance everyone and have fairly pointless sexual encounters be the high point of the whole romance. I have a feeling the design crew on this project is up for the task though. Honestly I can't wait to see what they cook up.

[The Sharmat]

Often the best developed characters/those with the most content are those with Romances. Which is why I am in favour of romances. If they can do deep Party interaction without romance (definitely possible) I would be equally satisfied.

This can be a trap though. In some cases in recent games, the characters with romance arcs are the best developed and have the most content...IF you romance them. If not, be prepared to have a total of three conversations with them because going further ends with them mind controlling your character into having sex with them.

[zrani]

Often the best developed characters/those with the most content are those with Romances. Which is why I am in favour of romances. If they can do deep Party interaction without romance (definitely possible) I would be equally satisfied.

This can be a trap though. In some cases in recent games, the characters with romance arcs are the best developed and have the most content...IF you romance them. If not, be prepared to have a total of three conversations with them because going further ends with them mind controlling your character into having sex with them.

 

hehe

[metiman]

Sex and romance in computer games is just silly. If you want some sex and romance turn off your computer and go find some. I hope Obsidian is not going to add any more Romance than was available in, say, Fallout. The limited amount added to PS:T might be tolerable, but it's a waste of time. It doesn't add anything to the overall story or gameplay. That time and those resources could be spent much more effectively on other things.

[KenThomas]

I'd really like to see more involved romances in story driven games. Being promiscuous in a game is uncomfortable. I'd like if my character got deeply involved with one character even up to the point of marrying them. Perhaps a child or children could show up as an NPC in a sequel, and their morality could be roughly based on yours in the original game, ie good/neutral/evil. Perhaps as you get more attached to your love interest or get married, then dialogue choices start popping up along the lines of wanting them to stay out of combat. You start compromising your choices between them and other NPC's because they're more important to you and the other NPC's start to get jaded and lose some faith in your leadership. On the flip side of that if you don't start giving special considerations to your love interest, perhaps they feel unappreciated and leave you or they stay with you but because you're putting them in harms way they may die in combat.

 

I tried to suggest this part elsewhere but my presentation was terrible. I think that with how much older the average gamer is today that a mature game can finally start to touch on some of these issues which would be realistic considerations and consequences. I also think that doing it right could be tremendously rewarding.

 

Edit: that said, I'm with most in that if the dev's don't have good ideas for how to pursue romance in that particular game context, I would also rather not see it at all rather than just some cheap fantasy shag.

Edited September 17, 2012 by KenThomas

[KenThomas]

BG2 and PS:T had great romances.

 

In BG2 your LI was killed, turned into a vampire, you were forced you to kill them as part of the main story line no matter which companion you romanced. A purely optional side quest allowed you to resurrect them but only if you had done a side quest earlier in the game. as a male character 1 of your LI's could become pregnant, one you could sleep with repeatedly except for one time, when doing so would end the romance forever because the LI sees the relationship as purely sexual and decides that's the end of it. The third LI is recently widowed and a little older than you.

 

That sounds fantastic. Seriously. I haven't played BG2 since it came out but I remember it having a fantastic storyline. Time to reinstall.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I have a suggestion regarding romances.

 

NO ****ING ROMANCES!

 

Ahem.

 

1. Romances in RPG's are a game of "choose the right response to get laid". There is absolutely no player involvement in them apart from accepting to be romanced or refusing, and he/she has absolutely no influence on the flow of the "romance".This makes no sense. Why can't I dictate the flow of the romance?

 

2. Its never been done decently apart from:

a) Jaheira (although that romance isn't 100% perfect)

b) Fall From Grace - which wasn't a real romance but a subtle thing, that was good exactly because it never happened

 

3. When it was included "just because they could" (like with BGII and PST) it could be seen as flavor, making rich games even better. When it was included "because everyone was yapping for it" like with Mass Effect and Dragon Age it made average games worse. (They couldn't bother making better squad AI or the shooting more responsive in ME, but they had the resources for blue alien sex scenes? WTF?)

[zrani]

BG2 and PS:T had great romances.

 

In BG2 your LI was killed, turned into a vampire, you were forced you to kill them as part of the main story line no matter which companion you romanced. A purely optional side quest allowed you to resurrect them but only if you had done a side quest earlier in the game. as a male character 1 of your LI's could become pregnant, one you could sleep with repeatedly except for one time, when doing so would end the romance forever because the LI sees the relationship as purely sexual and decides that's the end of it. The third LI is recently widowed and a little older than you.

 

That sounds fantastic. Seriously. I haven't played BG2 since it came out but I remember it having a fantastic storyline. Time to reinstall.

 

you might want to wait for the BG2 enhanced edition coming soon from beamdog/overhaul games

[Shades]

I agree that romances would benefit from not being all about sleeping together and then being over. And I do like the idea of a player character trying to initiate a romance with some NPCs and getting turned down. I also have no problem at all with tragic romances.

 

I can see a point in also making sure that the non-romance NPCs get a decent amount of content too though. Why should an NPC just get more content because my character happens to be attracted to them? I'd like to see some decent friendships that could be developed with various NPCs. And like the romances, it would be interesting if the characters really had their own personalities, with something to keep track of their likes and dislikes (not the Dragon Age way, more like some BG2 mods). Perhaps... They like fish, you mention fish and it adds one point, you save a dinosaur, they like that and it adds another point, you break their favourite hat, minus a point. And when you come to conversations it'll fall into a range 1-10 means you don't have a lot in common and they'll reject your advances, 11-20 means you have a fair amount in common and they'll accept your advances, 21-30 means you have a lot in common and they'll attempt to initite a romance with you. And they react differently according to how the choices you've made and things you've said match with their own views. But this might get overly complicated to keep track of and write enough dialogue for.

 

But then I'd also like to see NPCs reacting to how you treat them. If you're nasty to them they shouldn't forget it after your first conversation, it would be nice to see them remembering things you've said/done. Even things that may seem insignificant at the time.

 

Or Saerileth.

 

Thank you! Saerileth's overall story arc (especially in Throne of Bhaal) is an absolute gem of storytelling, and made you realize exaclty what it was like to romance a paladin, especially with the emphasis on LAWFUL Good!

 

Ugh no, please not anything like Sarelith. It's just my personal preference, but I do not enjoy dragging a 15 year old plot thief along in my party unless it is very well done.

[The Sharmat]

Eh, I don't like the 'X likes chocolate, give her chocolate for +1 influence/romance points'. It kinda turns NPCs into virtual pets.