Please include women with shirts on.

[WDeranged]

*grr*

Edited September 15, 2012 by WDeranged

[Doug Piranha]

...it needs to be more Dostoyevsky (or perhaps Tolkien in the case of fantasy RPG's)...

Why not G. R. R. Martin?

[Audiocide]

Don't be too specific. Both sexes are portrayed in a idealized fashion.

 

True, but seeing that godly rack popping out of the ridiculously tight shirt on the wizened old lady is a bit silly. Or the starving urchin boy who looks like Conan the Barbarian, if you want a male example.

 

I don't mind an idealized player character, but I think NPCs should mostly look like regular people.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Audiocide

[Nakia]

Just when will we being walking around nude? If the males get nude women then the females get nude men. But why? There was an Oblivion mod that provided me with a marvelous castle which I filled up with companions and some of those companions got skimpy clothing via another mod. In real life we do not wander around nude. There is a time and place for nudity but walking the highways and byways of a game don't strike me as a place you would want to be nude.

 

I am adamant that I want appropriate garb for my character and my NPCs. No bikini armour, no wandering around in the brush nude. That simply is not safe or comfortable. As for idealized bodies it is a male idealization. A female adventurer would be strong, have muscles and not look like a pampered great lady or something else I won't mention. This is ridiculous. As someone said a modder will come along and give you nudity if you want it.

[ComradeGoby]

Just when will we being walking around nude? If the males get nude women then the females get nude men. But why? There was an Oblivion mod that provided me with a marvelous castle which I filled up with companions and some of those companions got skimpy clothing via another mod. In real life we do not wander around nude. There is a time and place for nudity but walking the highways and byways of a game don't strike me as a place you would want to be nude.

 

I am adamant that I want appropriate garb for my character and my NPCs. No bikini armour, no wandering around in the brush nude. That simply is not safe or comfortable. As for idealized bodies it is a male idealization. A female adventurer would be strong, have muscles and not look like a pampered great lady or something else I won't mention. This is ridiculous. As someone said a modder will come along and give you nudity if you want it.

 

YOU ARE BEING RACIST TO NUDISTS

 

CHECK YOUR PRIVELAGE CIS SCUM

[Zombra]

Not gonna lie - I enjoy Frazetta style fantasy babes.

 

I don't have any problem with realistic armor, but I do think it's cool to see the occasional shirtless hero or slinky sorceress.

 

Having every inch of skin for both genders hidden beneath five layers of steel and leather may be "realistic", but it's visually very boring.

 

Realistic is fine for some things. I prefer artistic.

[alanschu]

 

The charcter I roleplay as.

 

The underpants gnome. But still brothels and protitutes with bikinis are immersion breaking

 

 

Ah yes, the nebulous immersion.

 

 

The reason why nudity is "meh" for me is that rarely I do I find it actually adds anything to my game experience. Prostitutes don't walk just walk around naked, so seeing them not naked seems perfectly fine.

 

I think excessive blood/gore is also distracting, but if a game involves combat and I am hitting them with a sharp swing on an object, having blood makes more sense than not having blood.

[Nakia]

Just when will we being walking around nude? If the males get nude women then the females get nude men. But why? There was an Oblivion mod that provided me with a marvelous castle which I filled up with companions and some of those companions got skimpy clothing via another mod. In real life we do not wander around nude. There is a time and place for nudity but walking the highways and byways of a game don't strike me as a place you would want to be nude.

 

I am adamant that I want appropriate garb for my character and my NPCs. No bikini armour, no wandering around in the brush nude. That simply is not safe or comfortable. As for idealized bodies it is a male idealization. A female adventurer would be strong, have muscles and not look like a pampered great lady or something else I won't mention. This is ridiculous. As someone said a modder will come along and give you nudity if you want it.

 

YOU ARE BEING RACIST TO NUDISTS

 

CHECK YOUR PRIVELAGE CIS SCUM

 

If nudists want to wander around fighting rats, bandits and those blasted wolves while dealing with bushes, stickers, ticks, rocks, tree branches and weeds depositing itchy pollen on their private parts that is fine with me. My party keeps it clothes on.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

 

Hedgehogs....the true enemy of naked woodland walks

[nikolokolus]

Not gonna lie - I enjoy Frazetta style fantasy babes.

 

I don't have any problem with realistic armor, but I do think it's cool to see the occasional shirtless hero or slinky sorceress.

 

Having every inch of skin for both genders hidden beneath five layers of steel and leather may be "realistic", but it's visually very boring.

 

Realistic is fine for some things. I prefer artistic.

 

I won't argue. Frezetta and Boris Valejo had quite the impact on me when I was about 13 or 14 when I first stumbled on to their stuff. As far as the game goes I could take it or leave it with "skimpy-ness." The only thing I can't abide is character or costume design that is explicitly trying to pander to a 15 year old male audience. If there's a reason for scantily clad women and it fits within the confines of the culture or the story then so be it, but god help me I can't take much more of the influence anime seems to be having on art, movies and game design.

[LadyCrimson]

Don't be too specific. Both sexes are portrayed in a idealized fashion.

They are indeed.

Therefore, I'm putting in my vote now for one of the male companion NPC's to have an aging, ex-boxer softening into retirement type of physique (so still rather strong) but with a large lower potbelly. From drinking all that ale in every tavern, you know. High calorie stuff.

[Humanoid]

So, Mickey Rourke?

[Calax]

 

The charcter I roleplay as.

 

The underpants gnome. But still brothels and protitutes with bikinis are immersion breaking

 

 

Ah yes, the nebulous immersion.

 

 

The reason why nudity is "meh" for me is that rarely I do I find it actually adds anything to my game experience. Prostitutes don't walk just walk around naked, so seeing them not naked seems perfectly fine.

 

I think excessive blood/gore is also distracting, but if a game involves combat and I am hitting them with a sharp swing on an object, having blood makes more sense than not having blood.

Well nudity and immersion can be liked. One example is indigo prophecy/fareinheit where the main female character has a scene that starts with her in the shower. The American release had her in a bra and panties while she was under the water. That'll toss you out of the entire thing lickety split.

 

I don't enjoy nudity for the sake of watching a pair of jubblies hang out of a top. It's the same reason people were forced to remember that they were in a game in fallout three where the protitute in megaton takes your money, leads you to a bed, and promptly falls asleep. I'd have preferred a blank screen with the gigantic words "you had sex" rather than what we got.

 

I mean look at the witcher 2, the nudity there made sense in the context of where you found it and wasn't just there for titillation (ok a few of the encounters between tries and Geralt were entirely gratuitous but they had an established relationship so it wasn't that odd for them to get it on)

[J.E. Sawyer]

Yeah man The Witcher 2 totally didn't have loads of nudity

I think Triss and Geralt in Witcher 2 were fine. When Triss was out and about, she dressed practically (and still looked really attractive, IMO). When Triss and Geralt had sex, surprise, they didn't wear clothing.

 

It's not unreasonable to expect prostitutes or anyone engaged in sexual activities to wear sexualized (or no) clothing. When people who are engaged in mortal combat dress like sex workers as a rule, that's when the characters become hard to take seriously. This should apply to both male and female characters.

 

EDIT: There are also conventions you can establish for certain types of characters that still remain egalitarian. E.g. in 3E/3.5, sorcerers were sort of presented as wild "sexytyme" spellcasters who lost their shirts. The iconic sorcerer was a dude in a strap corset. This even carried over to Seoni, the iconic Pathfinder sorceress (in fact, many Pathfinder female characters dress in heavy armor). Barbarians, male or female, generally just don't wear a lot of clothes, in any setting. That's where you get a lot of the "classic" Frazetta/Vallejo look.

 

I think having a good range is important. If male plate armor for heavy fighters looks like Maximilian plate out of the Holy Roman Empire and the female equivalent looks like a bikini, that's some serious male gazin'.

[Rostere]

I think that nudity can be entirely justified if we're talking about a succubus, siren, nymph or some other fantastical, supernatural creature meant to seduce people in the game world. I don't know about other countries, but at least in Sweden there are male counterparts of "naked woodland nymphs" in traditional folklore, so there aren't necessarily any problems on that (feminist) front.

 

Silly armour for female characters, or unrealistic sexist portrayal of female characters in general, is one of the most immersion- breaking things in a game that I know of. I can't stress enough how much I want Obsidian to avoid these stereotypes. Also, I would personally like to avoid having any female NPCs who are physical (strength- based) fighters. Arcanum did very well in the area of having realistic NPCs of both genders. I don't want to limit the character creation system much (if at all), since women fighting (physically) against men on equal terms DO exist, however it would be very silly if female soldiers are just as common as male soldiers. This is the essence of making a truly "mature" game world in my opinion - I want to play in a world which makes sense, not some 12 year old boy's sexual fantasy.

 

Yes, male characters are also stereotypes, but it makes much more sense that a travelling adventurer/mercenary should be strong and physically fit, than it does for a female mercenary to be very slim, busty and good-looking (assuming she gets paid to fight, that is). Good looks won't help you in combat in any way.

[Darji]

Yeah man The Witcher 2 totally didn't have loads of nudity

I think Triss and Geralt in Witcher 2 were fine. When Triss was out and about, she dressed practically (and still looked really attractive, IMO). When Triss and Geralt had sex, surprise, they didn't wear clothing.

 

It's not unreasonable to expect prostitutes or anyone engaged in sexual activities to wear sexualized (or no) clothing. When people who are engaged in mortal combat dress like sex workers as a rule, that's when the characters become hard to take seriously. This should apply to both male and female characters.

 

EDIT: There are also conventions you can establish for certain types of characters that still remain egalitarian. E.g. in 3E/3.5, sorcerers were sort of presented as wild "sexytyme" spellcasters who lost their shirts. The iconic sorcerer was a dude in a strap corset. This even carried over to Seoni, the iconic Pathfinder sorceress (in fact, many Pathfinder female characters dress in heavy armor). Barbarians, male or female, generally just don't wear a lot of clothes, in any setting. That's where you get a lot of the "classic" Frazetta/Vallejo look.

 

I think having a good range is important. If male plate armor for heavy fighters looks like Maximilian plate out of the Holy Roman Empire and the female equivalent looks like a bikini, that's some serious male gazin'.

 

That is is the perfect way to go. I knew I can trust Obsidian with stuff like characters, design and story. Stuff like prostitution or even sexy looking man and woman should be in these games because that's how the world in reality is as well. And Yeah The Witcher 2 did a fantastic job in this aspect as well.

 

And I would never think that you would go the "new" Bioware way anyway.

 

People trust these guys they know what they are doing in terms of characters and writing.

[Gatt9]

I think that nudity can be entirely justified if we're talking about a succubus, siren, nymph or some other fantastical, supernatural creature meant to seduce people in the game world. I don't know about other countries, but at least in Sweden there are male counterparts of "naked woodland nymphs" in traditional folklore, so there aren't necessarily any problems on that (feminist) front.

 

Silly armour for female characters, or unrealistic sexist portrayal of female characters in general, is one of the most immersion- breaking things in a game that I know of. I can't stress enough how much I want Obsidian to avoid these stereotypes. Also, I would personally like to avoid having any female NPCs who are physical (strength- based) fighters. Arcanum did very well in the area of having realistic NPCs of both genders. I don't want to limit the character creation system much (if at all), since women fighting (physically) against men on equal terms DO exist, however it would be very silly if female soldiers are just as common as male soldiers. This is the essence of making a truly "mature" game world in my opinion - I want to play in a world which makes sense, not some 12 year old boy's sexual fantasy.

 

Yes, male characters are also stereotypes, but it makes much more sense that a travelling adventurer/mercenary should be strong and physically fit, than it does for a female mercenary to be very slim, busty and good-looking (assuming she gets paid to fight, that is). Good looks won't help you in combat in any way.

 

I agree with this. The Mass Effect series was the first time a game has ever really bothered me. One character wandering around on alien worlds, and fighting, essentially nude. Another one with proportions that would make Barbie anorexic, and in the third game, every time she walked on stage the camera angle changed to waist level and was positioned directly behind her so half the scene was her butt. Half the time I'd wondered if I'd wandered into a 80's nerd's fantasy of Star Trek + Porky's.

 

OTOH, Leliana was a very well represented female, very attractive without looking like the art was influenced by Dead or Alive Volleyball.

[Voronwer]

An interesting link about female armour: http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/

 

But yes, word. And even more importantly: female characters who go outside the role of healer, mage and ranged attack are lovely too.

[The Sharmat]

The Mass Effect series was the first time a game has ever really bothered me.

Particularly tragic as this was a step backward for the series. In the first Mass Effect game male and female armor were visually the same, and outside the Asari women were treated far better than in almost any other video games I can think of. Then Mass Effect 2 comes along and they're all in stiletto heels. It doesn't just take you out of the setting, it damages characters that are used in that way. Miranda (whose ass the camera insisted on tracking at all times) was actually an interesting character, but it's damn hard to take her seriously when the game is pulling stuff like that. I imagine a lot of people skipped backstory for these characters because of it.

[Badmojo]

Yeah man The Witcher 2 totally didn't have loads of nudity

I think Triss and Geralt in Witcher 2 were fine. When Triss was out and about, she dressed practically (and still looked really attractive, IMO). When Triss and Geralt had sex, surprise, they didn't wear clothing.

 

It's not unreasonable to expect prostitutes or anyone engaged in sexual activities to wear sexualized (or no) clothing. When people who are engaged in mortal combat dress like sex workers as a rule, that's when the characters become hard to take seriously. This should apply to both male and female characters.

 

EDIT: There are also conventions you can establish for certain types of characters that still remain egalitarian. E.g. in 3E/3.5, sorcerers were sort of presented as wild "sexytyme" spellcasters who lost their shirts. The iconic sorcerer was a dude in a strap corset. This even carried over to Seoni, the iconic Pathfinder sorceress (in fact, many Pathfinder female characters dress in heavy armor). Barbarians, male or female, generally just don't wear a lot of clothes, in any setting. That's where you get a lot of the "classic" Frazetta/Vallejo look.

 

I think having a good range is important. If male plate armor for heavy fighters looks like Maximilian plate out of the Holy Roman Empire and the female equivalent looks like a bikini, that's some serious male gazin'.

 

Actually that is interesting. Ok, in social situations you would expect women (not all obviously) in non armour to dress more feminen/sexy clothing. It happens in real life, just go to the mall. However, in fighting then yea, armour would probably be more practical. Still, I would like to see some eye candy armour now and again. Some sepcies like succubus or vampires (flesh would be natural armour) would have more sexualized armour. As for your companions, I think the players should get to decide what they wear with a variety to cater to everybody.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I see no problem if, say a female thief, would have a bit more revealing outfit, as she would naturally want to draw attention away from her pickpocketing hands.

 

But when it comes to warriors or the overall need of actual protection, I think female characters should have as protective looking armor as male characters, so as little as skin would be shown or be accessible for a nasty, rusty blade.

[The Sharmat]

Thing is, even in the Succubus example: armor that exposes all your vital parts is not armor by definition. A metal bikini is just that: a metal bikini. If a character is wearing that it shouldn't actually give them any statistical defensive bonus. It should be treated as a fashion statement.

[Voronwer]

I see no problem if, say a female thief, would have a bit more revealing outfit, as she would naturally want to draw attention away from her pickpocketing hands.

 

If her goal is to distract men while she robs them blind, she wouldn't be wearing armour at all.

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I see no problem if, say a female thief, would have a bit more revealing outfit, as she would naturally want to draw attention away from her pickpocketing hands.

 

If her goal is to distract men while she robs them blind, she wouldn't be wearing armour at all.

Well, that isn't the most stealthy way to pickpocket guys in the streets... What I mean is that there would be a balance there, something "hiding" enough that one could easily walk unnoticed in the street, but all the while revealing enough to draw attention away from the thieving hands.

[Darji]

I see no problem if, say a female thief, would have a bit more revealing outfit, as she would naturally want to draw attention away from her pickpocketing hands.

 

But when it comes to warriors or the overall need of actual protection, I think female characters should have as protective looking armor as male characters, so as little as skin would be shown or be accessible for a nasty, rusty blade.

 

Yeah totally agree. There could be Female thiefs for example who exactly do this to distract people while stealing etc. And yes if they were less armor give them boni to agility or evasion and minus in armor for example.