Esports

[Monte Carlo]

Hello

 

As you know, I'm a massive fan of Company of Heroes and am following the development of the sequel with interest. The game has a ferociously loyal community around it, and Relic has a good relationship with them (for example, the last patch was more or less fixed via fan testing on gamereplays.org).

 

However, a very vocal part of the community (in fact the part that arguably kept CoH alive via replays and tournaments) are pushing the esport aspect of CoH2. They want mirror maps / mirror matches (yeuch) and more features that will turn the game into more of an esport.

 

I can't think of anything worse. The whole SC2 scene makes me shiver, gaming turned into Rainman-style math (for example, CoH has a very unpredictable random crit / outcomes component which makes luck an infrequent, but interesting element of play - esporters hate it).

 

So what do we think of esports? Do they add to the longevity and appeal of a game or merely consign it to geek-elite twitch ghettos?

 

 

Cheers

MC

[Hurlshort]

I really have no idea about esports. It doesn't appeal to me in the least. It would be nice if they can move towards that without alienating the casual player completely, I suppose. It is probably a decent revenue stream for CoH over time, so you can see why the developer would embrace it.

[Blarghagh]

I enjoy the StarCraft II Pro-Scene but the problem is that it's very complicated to keep track of, it's a freaking job.

[tripleRRR]

I enjoy watching MOBA esports. League of Legends and DotA 2 are both fun to watch and pretty easy to follow. I have watched a few CoH matches and they are interesting, not something I would start following though.

[greylord]

I have no interest in E-sports, so I wouldn't know.

[entrerix]

I hate the term with passion. It's competitive gaming, not a sport. Is poker called a card sport? No, it's a table game.

[pmp10]

I on the other hand do have an idea of 'espots' and can tell you no to worry about relic - they couldn't do it when they tried with DoW1 and should be well aware of the fact. Their whole design philosophy was to add more and more expansions and are now moving harder towards online persistence often at the cost of dropping support early. Even if they had the experience and suitable design relic simply dose not have the fan-base to push into the market that's likely will be dominated by SC2 for years to come.

[Blarghagh]

I hate the term with passion. It's competitive gaming, not a sport. Is poker called a card sport? No, it's a table game.

 

Chess and table tennis would beg to differ.

 

No, I'm of the opinion that the term sport has become so diluted as to become meaningless, so it doesn't matter where it's used. If hopping up and down on a horse can be considered a sport, anything can.

[Gorgon]

Indeed, they even call golfing a sport and not a hobby.

[Mamoulian War]

It depends how they manage to implement it into the game... It was E-sport what has made Counter-Strike Classic one of the most popular games.

[MrBrown]

I watch way too much pro-SC2. At least I play myself as well. Sometimes <.>

[Amentep]

I hate the term with passion. It's competitive gaming, not a sport. Is poker called a card sport? No, it's a table game.

 

Chess and table tennis would beg to differ.

 

No, I'm of the opinion that the term sport has become so diluted as to become meaningless, so it doesn't matter where it's used. If hopping up and down on a horse can be considered a sport, anything can.

 

Chess isn't a sport. Table Tennis is. Sport should be classed as competitive physical activities. Note that while there is physical activity in chess (and in video gaming most of which involves moving the arm in chess or the hands in video games), I think the litmus test is whether its the physical activity iteself that is being competitive. In other words Table Tennis pitting two players' hand-eye coordination and skill with the paddle can be a sport but the competition in chess isn't the skill with which one moves ones knights or how one elegantly handles a castle move. At least that's the way I see it.

 

Anyhow esport or competitive gaming holds no interest to me; I've generally found playing with people I don't know well to be a fruitless endeavor at best. But then I play games for my own entertainment, not to prove I'm the best at it.

[Mamoulian War]

Activities, where you have to have good mental condition, thinking or reflexes, aka chess, go or skeet are considered as sports as well. In many games you have to employ most of these activities to succeed as well, therefore the term "sport" is pretty much valid for them as well.

[Blarghagh]

I'd say at a certain level of play StarCraft becomes all about hand-eye coordination and physical speed. A big deal is made out of APM for a reason.

[Amentep]

Activities, where you have to have good mental condition, thinking or reflexes, aka chess, go or skeet are considered as sports as well. In many games you have to employ most of these activities to succeed as well, therefore the term "sport" is pretty much valid for them as well.

 

I've seen Chess classified as a sport. I never would do so, again to me the dividing line is what is the competition about - Chess competition isn't about physical movement, ie the winner isn't decided by who made the most deft pawn advancement.

[Gorgon]

Part of the definition surely is that it has to be physically challenging, as well as be a game of skill. Snooker doesn't really count for this reason either.

[Mamoulian War]

Then explain me, how the Snooker is not a game of skill?

[entrerix]

if chess is a sport then I'm a billionaire.

 

not because I have a billion dollars, but because I have some dollars, which is part of what I would need to have a billion, so its close enough that I can just go ahead and call myself a billionaire.

[Gorgon]

Then explain me, how the Snooker is not a game of skill?

It's not physically challenging. It requires exceptional hand-eye coordination but you don't have to be in shape to play. You know, like golf. Edited June 13, 2012 by Gorgon

[Hurlshort]

You don't really need to be in shape to play Baseball either.

[Gorgon]

Well we consider that (our version) a school activity more than a sport anyway so it still works for me. I understand much of the game time is spent spitting and scratching your balls. This is just from watching various movies.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Gorgon

[Gorgon]

I'd say at a certain level of play StarCraft becomes all about hand-eye coordination and physical speed. A big deal is made out of APM for a reason.

That's really showcasing faults in the game more than anything else. Frantic mouse clicking should not be much of an RTS asset. Decisionmaking should be.

[Malcador]

Well, speed at which they make those decisions counts for a lot as well, no ? Unless APM counts neutral commands like moving an SCV to and fro.

[tripleRRR]

APM counts every click and key press.

[pmp10]

I'd say at a certain level of play StarCraft becomes all about hand-eye coordination and physical speed. A big deal is made out of APM for a reason.

That's really showcasing faults in the game more than anything else. Frantic mouse clicking should not be much of an RTS asset. Decisionmaking should be.

Skill in RTS has always been about frantic clicking multitasking and reaction times.

If those games were to center around strategy and decisions they would stick to turn-based format.