Pepper spray

[Malcador]

Hey, they need police protection from their slaves.

[Morgoth]

That's right. In the land of freedom or democracy, Losers who can't get a real job just join the police force. They can beat up people all day long and even get paid for it!

[Gfted1]

No, losers that cant get a real job sit on their asses at protests crying how they should be rewarded the fruits of others labor.

[Morgoth]

Lol.

[Nepenthe]

No, losers that cant get a real job sit on their asses at protests crying how they should be rewarded the fruits of others labor.

With the current overeducation levels, I am positive that you will find out sooner than later that being unemployed doesn't make you a loser.

[Gromnir]

Fascinating story, personally believe that natural persons should overall enjoy a higher level of rights than legal ones, certainly that someone sitting on the lawn of a body that owns acres of lawns is violating that body's rights to a much lesser degree than when someone sits on a private person's handkerchief sized front lawn.

 

 

am agreeing and disagreeing. agree on protecting natural folks Liberty rights more than legal persons, at least in principal but in Gromnir example and your example, we is not talking liberty rights, is we? protect property is different, and suggesting that one person, real or otherwise, gets deserves less protection o' his property right simply 'cause he has more property is, well, un-American.

 

we will observe that one aspect o' our hypo is not analogous to ucd: the students at uc davis were not simple trespassers. is an admitted significant difference that we did not mention. nevertheless, am thinking that a great disservice has been done by mischaracterizing the reason why the protesters were being removed in the first place. even during the late 80's and early 90's, back when Gromnir were at Cal/Boalt, protests on campus were pretty darn common. at Cal we witnessed protests o' fee hikes, affirmative action policies, tree removal, and even public nudity on campus. some o' those protesters were quite lively. no biggie. the occupation protests is different. is not the protesting that is provoking a response from governments and universities, but rather the nuisance that accompanies the occupation.

 

obviously Gromnir is fascinated by the whole situation. public forum doctrine were kinda the area o' first amendment law in which we gots our feet wet. kokinda and iskcon v. lee marked a serious philosophical change for the Court re public forum-- am curious to see if the present Court holds the line.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

No, losers that cant get a real job sit on their asses at protests crying how they should be rewarded the fruits of others labor.

With the current overeducation levels, I am positive that you will find out sooner than later that being unemployed doesn't make you a loser.

 

 

Dont feel bad about yourself, Im sure you will eventually find a job. In the mean time just kick back and suckle the teat of "the rich". You deserve it via simple accident of birth.

[Walsingham]

Don't worry, soon it's gonna be over, then your grinner is gonna disappear and turning into eternal agony.

 

And it's precisely that 'can do' attitude which will see you right in the long run. Keep it up, old boy.

[Nepenthe]

I guess that's where we clue on to the fact that I'm not American, eh, Gromnir?

 

No, losers that cant get a real job sit on their asses at protests crying how they should be rewarded the fruits of others labor.

With the current overeducation levels, I am positive that you will find out sooner than later that being unemployed doesn't make you a loser.

 

 

Dont feel bad about yourself, Im sure you will eventually find a job. In the mean time just kick back and suckle the teat of "the rich". You deserve it via simple accident of birth.

Oh, I've never been unemployed. I just don't think it makes me a better person than those who have been.

 

(I'd like to think that mentioning that I'm going to start as a lobbyist for the banking sector would make the irony here absolutely overwhelming and possibly you reconsider your black and white view of the world and my opinions, but I no longer have such high hopes).

[Cantousent]

Well, it does mean you should have enough money to spring for lunch. ...And the pepper spray to spice it.

 

I think the Occupy movement is more or less destructive. It had some good will to begin with, but it has started to lose its shine to a lot of Americans. I actually wrote a long post about the OWS movement, but figured there was enough going on in the thread about pepper spraying folks than to get into the politics behind the confrontation. Although I do get a kick out the Gifted and Morgie excahanging salvos.

[Hurlshort]

I still have no idea what the Occupy movement was all about. What was their goal? What was the change they were looking for? I listened to a few speakers on it and they seemed more concerned with playing hackey sack and camping out.

[Calax]

I still have no idea what the Occupy movement was all about. What was their goal? What was the change they were looking for? I listened to a few speakers on it and they seemed more concerned with playing hackey sack and camping out.

I think it was mostly about socialist stuff like changing laws so that more money is taken by the feds from the wealthiest rather than the average joe.

 

Basically, redistribution of wealth and removal of tax loopholes for businesses and such

[Nepenthe]

Well, it does mean you should have enough money to spring for lunch. ...And the pepper spray to spice it.

Might clear up my blocked sinuses. :D

[Walsingham]

Was speaking to a copper about this, and his view was "We only use the spray when we'd otherwise use the baton. And spray washes off. A broken wrist doesn't."

[Junai]

No, losers that cant get a real job sit on their asses at protests crying how they should be rewarded the fruits of others labor.

With the current overeducation levels, I am positive that you will find out sooner than later that being unemployed doesn't make you a loser.

The arses of squattin' poor people demonstrating are as obese as Wall Streeter's egoes. Both sides crying "TOO BIG TO FAIL!" with their feet firmly planted in denial.

Pepperspray isn't gonna stop the 99%, nor the 1%. Something WILL fail eventually. It's gonna be upheaval imho.

 

About time we had a good ol' fashion REVOLUTION!

Hunt down the banksters with pitchforks and shotguns. I'm getting a planeticket..

 

 

J.

[Morgoth]

I still have no idea what the Occupy movement was all about. What was their goal?

Well, I'd say that most of these protesters are graduates who are in $100k debt or something from tuition loans, and find it unfair that they can never pay it back in the current economic environment and job market while Wallstreet banks get bailed out all the time even if they can't compete.

 

It's about suck-ups making policy for the 1%, leaving the average American out of the equation. That's why I think the US has become a feudal state.

 

But don't worry, in 2012 a new president will be elected, and then everything will be better. Change is coming, this time it's guaranteed!

[Hurlshort]

I still have no idea what the Occupy movement was all about. What was their goal?

Well, I'd say that most of these protesters are graduates who are in $100k debt or something from tuition loans,

 

Really? Most of them?

[Morgoth]

Dunno, I'd say at least many of them?

 

You should know better what's going on in your country than me.

[Hurlshort]

Dunno, I'd say at least many of them?

 

You should know better what's going on in your country than me.

 

Yeah, you would think. That's kind of my whole point, the occupy movement was terribly disjointed and had no specific goals. They were just camping out for a couple months. How long were they palnning on doing that?

 

There are people who have no choice but to live in tent cities, and I thought this whole movement was a slap in the face for them. I'm betting most of these people had houses to return to, whether it was their parents or a cheap apartment.

[Meshugger]

I was always under the assumption that OWS was about the growing income inequality and how the banks(1%) were bailed out on the expense of everyone else(99%).

 

Anyhoo,

 

[Gorgon]

Well they seemed to lose the battle for public opinion. I agree though that the bailouts were a slap in the face to the regular 'working class', if there is such a thing, and that ultimately the entire financial system could be changed for the better if it wasn't stacked against them. That would require a level of momentum that the movement was never going to achieve though. Candidates for office, an actual political programme to push forth. It illustrates well the difference between simply complaining, and being part of the solution.

[Hurlshort]

The problem is the banks have all paid back the bailout funds, with interest. So I understand frustration with the fact the banks continue to get wealthy, good economy or bad, but I just don't see how letting them fail would help anyone.

[Volourn]

Considierng the wealthy pay a lot of taxes that goes to support the poor the crying that theya ren't doing their part is nonnse. Not to mention the donations to avrious charities (whatever their motivations may be notiwthstanding). The fact they are the ones hiring others for jobs - how many poor to middle class people hire anyone? Not many). People should stop their cyring.

 

As for the bank bailouts. It shouldn't have happened. I don't believe in 'too big fail'. If you are a private business the risk is if yous crew up you *should* fail. Period. Banks or the auto industry should not be above it. The economy maanged to survive her ein Kanada when the mining industry starting to weaken and at one time that was likely considered 'too big to fail'.

[Calax]

Well they seemed to lose the battle for public opinion. I agree though that the bailouts were a slap in the face to the regular 'working class', if there is such a thing, and that ultimately the entire financial system could be changed for the better if it wasn't stacked against them. That would require a level of momentum that the movement was never going to achieve though. Candidates for office, an actual political programme to push forth. It illustrates well the difference between simply complaining, and being part of the solution.

I think that the basic underlying ideal (that the 99% of americans have little-no power within the government) is quite popular. It's just that the occupiers were the extreme side of things, while the 99% of the 99% were trying to scrape by and didn't have the time to even think about changing how the world works.

[Cantousent]

Riiiiiiight. 99% of the people have no power in the government. How silly can you get. How many contortions can you undertake to even defend that idea. You can say that 1% have an inordinate amount of influence, resources, or power, but 99% have no power? I mean, it's true that Obama received considerably more money than his Republican opponent, but still, that didn't stop some 45-47% from voting for McCain. Popular measures come up by ballot initiatives in states all across this country.

 

Look, I hate the bail-outs myself. In principle, I'm with Vol on it. However, what are we going to do? Snatch everything folks make and give it to someone else? Who gets it? Who gets to decide who gets it?

 

The problem with the OWS crowd is that, inasmuch as you can discern the message, it's far more radical than the vast majority of Americans want. As folks learn more about that message, they dislike it, so people who used to support the movement see it as far too radical. The loudest voices in the OWS crowd don't want to tweak the tax code or rework budgeting. They want to radically reform our government to more socialist ideals. ...And we're not talking western European weak socialism, which is disasterous in and of itself. We're talking Marxism and all sorts of ugly stuff. Of course, the real problem with the movement is that it has no discipline and you can probably find counter-examples to every view you find somewhere in it.