Will Obsidian rock us with an awesome rpg???

[guguma]

Dear All,

 

I do not want to post the same stuff over and over again, I just read something about SKYRIM re-defining the RPG genre and I am filled with the urge to literally eat myself.

 

I will hold my promise, and I only trust obsidian, make an awesome old school RPG and I will buy 100 copies so that (unlike Black Isle) my favorite game developers won't go bankrupt. I am sure more people are willing to do that, because I know that somewhere, someone is reading stuff about Skyrim ,and probably playing it, and started eating him/herself.

[guguma]

I will just leave this here for inspiration

 

Simply put, our goal is to create the best electronic RPG's on the market. Our team is made up of core RPGer's who work on nothing else. We create the kind of games we want to play, and by doing so, hope to stay true to the RPG enthusiast.

 

[Syraxis]

Dear All,

 

I do not want to post the same stuff over and over again, I just read something about SKYRIM re-defining the RPG genre and I am filled with the urge to literally eat myself.

 

I don't know about re-defining but Skyrim is pretty great.

[Volourn]

How does Skyrim reefine anything since it's easically the same as the earlier ES series? Does. not. compute.

[Jaesun]

Dear All,

 

I do not want to post the same stuff over and over again, I just read something about SKYRIM re-defining the RPG genre and I am filled with the urge to literally eat myself.

 

I will hold my promise, and I only trust obsidian, make an awesome old school RPG

 

I'm sure Obsidian would love to do that but, that is entirely up to the Publisher. But Publishers don't want games like that, they only want only "action games" with RPG slapped somewhere on the label.

[Hurlshort]

Obsidian redefined the way choice and consequences worked in Alpha Protocol, and that didn't turn out great for them. Maybe safe bets like Skyrim are a good choice for them.

 

And you need to buy like 80,000 copies to really help their numbers, 100 aint gonna cut it.

[Volourn]

"Obsidian redefined the way choice and consequences worked in Alpha Protocol"

 

Quality argument aside, no it didn't. It's nowhere enar the first game to have C&C work the way it does in the game.

[guguma]

I'm sure Obsidian would love to do that but, that is entirely up to the Publisher. But Publishers don't want games like that, they only want only "action games" with RPG slapped somewhere on the label.

 

I really am aware of this fact, this is what makes me sad,

 

And I would buy 80,000 copies if I could, If I had that kind of money, I would directly commission work from Obsidian in the first place

 

And I believe that RPG is not only about choices and consequences, it is about a solid story, solid characters, and how immersive it is .

I remember playing through BG-II it was so immersive that it was like going through a "good" book, I always wondered what would happen next and never really wanted it to end.

 

That is why I believe that (in the present day) a sandbox style game cannot be an RPG since almost everything is just generic and banal. A solid story line with solid characters surrounded with a sandbox style generic environment to add liveliness, minor quests, etc. would be optimal but I do not see how it could be done without balancing the story character (NPC + Enemies) levels with the player character's and I do not know who would go through that trouble. To elucidate upon this point I have to say that level scaling just does not work and takes the fun out of a game. This is a personal opinion but in an RPG I expect challenging battles as well as being able to exterminate an entire low level army by myself, both give you different pleasures and level scaling takes this away. There might be limited level scaling, say you can have 5 discreet bandit levels but still if you are a level 18-19 character even the highest level bandit should be a piece of cake for you, and you can have 3 distinct lich levels and even the 1st level lich should destroy your 9th level character easily, I hope I made it clear.

 

The problem is that to accomplish all this needs dedication and a lot of time and work which translates to money, so if this cannot be done I would still prefer a more linear non-sandbox true RPG, if the latter is possible though, I would be glad to see that.

 

Still the main element is good story telling and character development and I have not seen this done by Dragon Age, or Elder Scrolls and even NWN 1-2 (except Mask of the Betrayer), and even though I think Skyrim is better than Oblivion and Morrowind I do not see Bethesda coming up with a good RPG EVER!!! since I find their humor pretty stupid, their dialogue pretty dull and their story telling ordinary. Renaming Monday to Mondas and Tuesday to Tuvdas (or Montag, Tustag whatever) is not creativity, they still have Fighter, Mage, Thief guilds, enough already, make a guild of Radient Flame, guild of Shadow, Blue Mages Guild, Guild of the Rodent etc representing different factions with different agendas it is a simple RPG consept how can anyone expect an RPG from Bethesda come on. And all that iron, silver, dwarven, elven, ebony, daedric stuff, eveything is just super generic...

 

Some elder scroll fans think Skyrim is a dumbed down version of Oblivion and hence Morrowind, what I think is that they did something right by getting rid of the dumber and frivolous stuff from the earlier games and inserted a Perk system instead (hmm how did they come up with Perks I wonder).

 

Anyway, the point is Sandbox + RPG could work but should be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian) since the important is the RPG element not the sandbox, though I can imagine how it would be difficult to balance and perfect.

 

And if this is not possible there are many RPG players out there expecting an RPG (at least it seems so) and it could be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian)

[Nathaniel Chapman]

Skyrim is a very good game IMO, but I don't think that our future games in general are necessarily likely to be like Skyrim or any other particular game, generally speaking. I think it will depend on the vision for the game and what we are going for in terms of mood, scope, gameplay, style and setting.

[Volourn]

Your FO:LV is a much better SR than Skyrim (or the other ES games) are.

[Tel Prydain]

And I believe that RPG is not only about choices and consequences, it is about a solid story, solid characters, and how immersive it is .

I remember playing through BG-II it was so immersive that it was like going through a "good" book, I always wondered what would happen next and never really wanted it to end.

It's ironic that you used that as the example, since there are so little choices and consequences in BG-II. Outside of how you get the money and your actions in the underdark, the rest of the main plot is on rails.

 

That is why I believe that (in the present day) a sandbox style game cannot be an RPG since almost everything is just generic and banal.

There is nothing generic and banal about Skyrim. You could claim that of Oblivion, but Skyrim is totally different.

 

This is a personal opinion but in an RPG I expect challenging battles as well as being able to exterminate an entire low level army by myself, both give you different pleasures and level scaling takes this away. There might be limited level scaling, say you can have 5 discreet bandit levels but still if you are a level 18-19 character even the highest level bandit should be a piece of cake for you, and you can have 3 distinct lich levels and even the 1st level lich should destroy your 9th level character easily, I hope I made it clear.

The fact you're even bring this up tells my you haven't played Skyrim.

 

Some elder scroll fans think Skyrim is a dumbed down version of Oblivion and hence Morrowind, what I think is that they did something right by getting rid of the dumber and frivolous stuff from the earlier games and inserted a Perk system instead (hmm how did they come up with Perks I wonder).

Who thinks that? If anything, Skyrim is closer to Morrowind than Oblivion.

The perk system is far from 'frivolous' and means that Skyrim is the first Elder Scrolls game to have character building worth a damn.

Anyway, the point is Sandbox + RPG could work but should be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian) since the important is the RPG element not the sandbox, though I can imagine how it would be difficult to balance and perfect.

 

And if this is not possible there are many RPG players out there expecting an RPG (at least it seems so) and it could be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian)

 

Yes... well...

 

I do think that Obsidian are the best hope for the future of RPGs. The level of player agency in both Alpha Protocol and New Vegas was great. But lets not go crazy here... Alpha Protocol had a great level of C&C and offered a great variety of ways to use your skills in the field, but the game itself was beyond broken. Dungeon Siege 3 was a solid effort, but was somewhat on the bland side. And while New Vegas was (in my opinion) the best RPG of this generation, it still has a few glaring faults (like how black the supposedly morally-gray Legion was painted).

Obsidian seem to get choices and consequences, and the importance of skill checks, so I'm keen to see where they head now.

 

But that's no reason to bash Skyrim. If anything, after the swamp of derp that was Oblivion and Fallout 3, Bethsoft should be congratulated for suddenly remembering how to make games again. Fallout 3 might have been more carnival than RPG, but Bethsoft obviously re-learned the arts of location building, player rewards and character creation, and brought those back into the Elder Scrolls.

[Nathaniel Chapman]

Your FO:LV is a much better SR than Skyrim (or the other ES games) are.

 

What is FO:LV and what is an SR?

[Volourn]

Great. Even the devs are trying to be cute. L0L

[Jaesun]

Your FO:LV is a much better SR than Skyrim (or the other ES games) are.

 

What is FO:LV and what is an SR?

 

Because, for whatever reason, when it was announced and others were playing it I never really paid attention to it because how much I hated FO3 so had no real intention of playing it and repeatedly called itLV by mistake. This of course cause great butthurt in the masses and anything that makes the masses here and elsewhere get butthurt puts a smile on my face. So FO:LV it is even though I am now aware of its actual name.

 

As for SR, who knows what lurks within the mind of volo.....

[Tel Prydain]

Your FO:LV is a much better SR than Skyrim (or the other ES games) are.

 

What is FO:LV and what is an SR?

He's calling FO:New Vegas FO:Las Vegas because... because he used to a while ago and doesn't want to stop... I think he enjoys that it annoys the posters who keep trying to correct him.

 

Still working on SR, though.

Solo Role-playing game?

Story-based Role-playing game?

Sorry Rodent?

Sad Rabbit?

 

Help us out here, Volly!

[Gorth]

Sandbox Realm?

[guguma]

And I believe that RPG is not only about choices and consequences, it is about a solid story, solid characters, and how immersive it is .

I remember playing through BG-II it was so immersive that it was like going through a "good" book, I always wondered what would happen next and never really wanted it to end.

It's ironic that you used that as the example, since there are so little choices and consequences in BG-II. Outside of how you get the money and your actions in the underdark, the rest of the main plot is on rails.

 

It is not ironic that i used that example, I said RPG does not only mean choices and consequences, BG-II did not have many choices yet it was great because it had a great story, and characters well had character.

 

Did you play Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines? They gave you plenty of choices about the ending there but it was not what made it a good rpg, it was the dialogue and the characters, honestly I have not seem better character implementation in any other game.

 

That is why I believe that (in the present day) a sandbox style game cannot be an RPG since almost everything is just generic and banal.

There is nothing generic and banal about Skyrim. You could claim that of Oblivion, but Skyrim is totally different.

 

What exactly is different, you did not start the game in a prison cell but started the game as a prisoner carried on a horse carriage, I admit I did not finish Skyrim yet but come on the dialogues in the opening made me bleed from my ears.

 

Ralof has the introductory role and just does not speak like he should,

 

Ralof: he is ulfric stormcloak the true high king,

(2 Seconds of silence)

Thief: The leader of the rebellion but if they have caught him (1.5 seconds of silence) gods where are they taking us

...

Thief: Mentions some gods and says divines please help me (in a super dull monotonic tone)

 

God at this point the game became so immersive and natural that I felt I was this nameless guy in the carriage so immersive

 

Ralof: Look at him General Tullius the military governor (no one would say this, he would say look at him, $#%%# tallius or something but ralof must introduce everything to us in the beginning)

 

When they are executing prisoners:

 

Some guy: Damn you imperials

(2 seconds of silence)

Some Guy: You can't do this

(2 seconds of silence)

Some women: Death to the stormcloaks

 

oh my god how original,

 

When the dragon comes over it gets funnier

 

Soldier: What is that

(2 seconds of silence)

Female Commander: Sentries what do you see

(2 seconds of silence)

Soldier: It is in the clouds [by that time the dragon has landed on the tower] and no one is running around or getting prepared for a fight or anything

(2 seconds of silence)

Soldier: Dragon!

(2 seconds of silence)

 

Then

 

Headsmen: Hunngh!

 

That was the point I was rolling around in my chair, not everyone is grunting but just this guy

 

If this is not banal what is it please tell me.

 

 

 

This is a personal opinion but in an RPG I expect challenging battles as well as being able to exterminate an entire low level army by myself, both give you different pleasures and level scaling takes this away. There might be limited level scaling, say you can have 5 discreet bandit levels but still if you are a level 18-19 character even the highest level bandit should be a piece of cake for you, and you can have 3 distinct lich levels and even the 1st level lich should destroy your 9th level character easily, I hope I made it clear.

The fact you're even bring this up tells my you haven't played Skyrim.

 

I admit I only played through a couple of towns, but it the same thing after a while

 

Some elder scroll fans think Skyrim is a dumbed down version of Oblivion and hence Morrowind, what I think is that they did something right by getting rid of the dumber and frivolous stuff from the earlier games and inserted a Perk system instead (hmm how did they come up with Perks I wonder).

Who thinks that? If anything, Skyrim is closer to Morrowind than Oblivion.

The perk system is far from 'frivolous' and means that Skyrim is the first Elder Scrolls game to have character building worth a damn.

 

I said the perk system is good, and morrowind was a great rpg right.

 

Anyway, the point is Sandbox + RPG could work but should be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian) since the important is the RPG element not the sandbox, though I can imagine how it would be difficult to balance and perfect.

 

And if this is not possible there are many RPG players out there expecting an RPG (at least it seems so) and it could be done by people who have a good track record with RPGs (hence Obsidian)

 

Yes... well...

 

I do think that Obsidian are the best hope for the future of RPGs. The level of player agency in both Alpha Protocol and New Vegas was great. But lets not go crazy here... Alpha Protocol had a great level of C&C and offered a great variety of ways to use your skills in the field, but the game itself was beyond broken. Dungeon Siege 3 was a solid effort, but was somewhat on the bland side. And while New Vegas was (in my opinion) the best RPG of this generation, it still has a few glaring faults (like how black the supposedly morally-gray Legion was painted).

Obsidian seem to get choices and consequences, and the importance of skill checks, so I'm keen to see where they head now.

 

But that's no reason to bash Skyrim. If anything, after the swamp of derp that was Oblivion and Fallout 3, Bethsoft should be congratulated for suddenly remembering how to make games again. Fallout 3 might have been more carnival than RPG, but Bethsoft obviously re-learned the arts of location building, player rewards and character creation, and brought those back into the Elder Scrolls.

 

 

I believe the only reason Obsidian is not coming up with something awesome is due to their financial limitations, Bethsoft as we all now is financially doing pretty good at the moment and the best they can do is to throw the same worthless thing at us, did anyone ever played New World Computing's Might and Magic games? They were way better than morrowind, oblivion skyrim if you set aside the graphics factor at least there were epic battles, interesting dungeons a good leveling system and interesting weapons in there

 

 

And yes I will bash Skyrim, I do enjoy playing it but that does not make it a great game, it does not make it a decent game, it does not make it a decent rpg, it makes it a playable, enjoyable game where you fight and cast spells in an awesome environment (graphically).

[pmp10]

[...] did anyone ever played New World Computing's Might and Magic games? They were way better than morrowind, oblivion skyrim if you set aside the graphics factor at least there were epic battles, interesting dungeons a good leveling system and interesting weapons in there

I did play M&M and similar games and can honestly say that they were never as good as recent Elder Scroll games. Just like other old-school first-person dungeon crawlers their essence was grind by combat. Ever since BG/Fallout changed the way of handling storytelling and world interaction it's simply wouldn't work and that sub-genre died. On the other hand the more exploration and world-building focused Elder Scrolls series is still popular.

[Volourn]

There's not one good ES game. They're all 4/10 or worse. The M&M games are pretty darn good. And, FO:LV is a vastly superior open world game than any ES game as well. No contest.

[Zack Fair]

There's not one good ES game. They're all 4/10 or worse. The M&M games are pretty darn good. And, FO:LV is a vastly superior open world game than any ES game as well. No contest.

Sometimes I feel I misjudged Volourn on the Codex. That is until he starts bashing my favourite games. :D

[HoonDing]

And yes I will bash Skyrim, I do enjoy playing it but that does not make it a great game, it does not make it a decent game, it does not make it a decent rpg, it makes it a playable, enjoyable game where you fight and cast spells in an awesome environment (graphically).

When you bash things you enjoy, maybe it's time for another hobby?

[Morgoth]

So people are already bashing Skyrim? Didn't take as long as Oblivion...

[Rostere]

There's not one good ES game. They're all 4/10 or worse. The M&M games are pretty darn good. And, FO:LV is a vastly superior open world game than any ES game as well. No contest.

 

+1

[Mirage]

Did you play Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines? They gave you plenty of choices about the ending there but it was not what made it a good rpg, it was the dialogue and the characters, honestly I have not seem better character implementation in any other game.

 

I'd agree with this, although I'm aware others might not share this opinion. It was a combination of things really, the animation, the VA, the writing. Of course, the character facial animations now seem somewhat archaic but are ironically still better than in other current games.

 

I don't know, Bloodlines just had this vibrancy and creative energy that I don't think has been replicated in any other game. I also loved the modern theme blended with the RPG formula.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Mirage