Best ARPG gameplay ever?

[MonkeyLungs]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

 

Actually the stuff I listed is handled quite well in Diablo 2. It's part of why the game got a patch 10 years into it's life and why people still play game, more people than play DS3 by the way.

 

DS3 is not about GOOD ACTION COMBAT either ... it is definitely in the same genre as Torchlight ... this isn't Ninja Gaiden.

 

 

Enemy variety and AI is good in Diablo 2?

 

HAHAOHWOW

 

No it isn't Ninja Gaiden, it's a BG:Dark Alliance style game.

 

BG: Dark Alliance is an action rpg like Torchlight. What planet are you from? Torchlight just has ultra gimped multiplayer as in they gimped it out of existence which is a huge negative against that game. The next step up in gimpy multiplayer is DS3, you know hobbling along with a cane telling the youngsters it's cool to only have one multiplayer mode cause that's all gramps needs!

 

EDIT: I'm willing to bet that enemy variety in Diablo 2 >>>> (that's much much much much greater btw) DS3

Edited June 16, 2011 by MonkeyLungs

[Renevent]

People play Diablo 2 because

-your character is never done

-it's addicting

Sure, when you tell them this or that game is better, they'll start coming up with reasons, but if you just go and randomly ask someone why he plays it, "it's addictive" will be the answer you get.

 

Also, lol at "more people play Diablo 2". No **** Sherlock.

 

honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the online portion for DS3 is dead inside a year.

As has been said a few million times, DS3 is a co-op game. Of course it won't last as long as Diablo 2 - which is, you know, geared toward MP. Everyone who's paying attention knows that.

 

No sir, incorrect.

 

There is more builds, more skills, a the item system is more in-depth and has more modifiers, there's more content, it has randomized content, rune words that extend item system even further, full trading, persistent characters with tons of levels, three different difficulty levels, great multiplayer...I could go on but the fact is it's just a deeper more in depth game with a lot more to offer which is why people continue to play to this day.

 

You character is never done because there is so many options to explore. It's addicting because there's so much to try out and you always find new stuff.

 

Dungeon Siege 3, while maybe not a bad game, is nowhere even in the vicinity of offering what Diablo offers in terms of gameplay and depth.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Renevent

[MonkeyLungs]

The Obsidian Defense Squad is massing in the wings. I'm getting low on potions ... I might not make it. Oh no the potions got streamlined out .. where are the damn orbs when I need them.

 

EDIT:

DS3 combat is >>> Lionheart

Edited June 16, 2011 by MonkeyLungs

[Subliminal]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

 

Actually the stuff I listed is handled quite well in Diablo 2. It's part of why the game got a patch 10 years into it's life and why people still play game, more people than play DS3 by the way.

 

DS3 is not about GOOD ACTION COMBAT either ... it is definitely in the same genre as Torchlight ... this isn't Ninja Gaiden.

 

 

Enemy variety and AI is good in Diablo 2?

 

HAHAOHWOW

 

No it isn't Ninja Gaiden, it's a BG:Dark Alliance style game.

 

Enemy variety is way richer in diablo 2 than DS3 (enchanted enemies/ uniques/ bosses/ just normal enemies). In fact, I'm pretty sure act 1 alone has more enemies than DS3.

 

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act1.shtml

(doesn't list bosses: Blood raven, the smith, griswold, andariel among others in act 1)

 

AI isn't great, but then it isn't in DS3 either.

[metamag]

From a pure gameplay standpoint I find Sacred 2's battle system infinitely more satisfying.

 

Hm, I specifically remember playing Sacred 2 demo and after seeing the bizarrely poor weapon animations uninstalling the demo and never thinking about Sacred 2 again.

So, I much prefer the whole package which DS3 offers.

[Pidesco]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

 

Actually the stuff I listed is handled quite well in Diablo 2. It's part of why the game got a patch 10 years into it's life and why people still play game, more people than play DS3 by the way.

 

DS3 is not about GOOD ACTION COMBAT either ... it is definitely in the same genre as Torchlight ... this isn't Ninja Gaiden.

 

 

Enemy variety and AI is good in Diablo 2?

 

HAHAOHWOW

 

No it isn't Ninja Gaiden, it's a BG:Dark Alliance style game.

 

BG: Dark Alliance is an action rpg like Torchlight. What planet are you from? Torchlight just has ultra gimped multiplayer as in they gimped it out of existence which is a huge negative against that game. The next step up in gimpy multiplayer is DS3, you know hobbling along with a cane telling the youngsters it's cool to only have one multiplayer mode cause that's all gramps needs!

 

EDIT: I'm willing to bet that enemy variety in Diablo 2 >>>> (that's much much much much greater btw) DS3

 

In Torchlight, or Diablo, or Titan Quest you don't have fine control of your character. You don't have active dodge, active block, combos. It's the reason why continuous attack works with the first games but wouldn't work with Dungeon Siege 3. And it's why Dungeon Siege 3 ends up in a very different genre. The player's manual dexterity is much more important in DS3 than in Diablo.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 and Dark Alliance work as lite versions of Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. You may not enjoy that sort of gameplay, but it is what it is.

[Renevent]

In Torchlight, or Diablo, or Titan Quest you don't have fine control of your character. You don't have active dodge, active block, combos. It's the reason why continuous attack works with the first games but wouldn't work with Dungeon Siege 3. And it's why Dungeon Siege 3 ends up in a very different genre. The player's manual dexterity is much more important in DS3 than in Diablo.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 and Dark Alliance work as lite versions of Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. You may not enjoy that sort of gameplay, but it is what it is.

 

Lite version I think is the best way to describe everything about Dungeon Siege 3. The combat is a lite version of other beat-em-ups. The leveling system is a lite version. The world design. The item system. Pretty much everything...it's the lite version.

 

Together it's probably pretty good and the game isn't bad...but this is definitely the "lite version" of a A-RPG's of the past and made for the console generation.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Renevent

[topeira]

the way i see it the combat in DS3 is way better than any torchlight\diablo game. the combat system is many times deeper , more involving and more fun. it's not DMC but it's much better.

the loot and skill system is more shallow than diablo. yeah.

so in fact DS3 is a medium between these games - combat is better and deeper but not THAT much better than diablo type games. loot and skill is shallower but not THAT shallow compared to diablo type games.

 

that's what OB were aiming for and that's what they got. ppl here are disappointed that this game is not like DS3 and they have the right to feel like this since this game bares the DS name. but i HATED DS and diablo type games. to me this is definitly a much better and more fun game than if it was a Diablo 3 clone.

[Subliminal]

the way i see it the combat in DS3 is way better than any torchlight\diablo game. the combat system is many times deeper , more involving and more fun. it's not DMC but it's much better.

the loot and skill system is more shallow than diablo. yeah.

so in fact DS3 is a medium between these games - combat is better and deeper but not THAT much better than diablo type games. loot and skill is shallower but not THAT shallow compared to diablo type games.

 

that's what OB were aiming for and that's what they got. ppl here are disappointed that this game is not like DS3 and they have the right to feel like this since this game bares the DS name. but i HATED DS and diablo type games. to me this is definitly a much better and more fun game than if it was a Diablo 3 clone.

 

I would say that the combat tries to be deeper, not that it is. Try playing a necromancer in d2. The health orb, "power", focus and stances hardly offset the amount of skills. For example, Playing as Anjali you will end up choosing one of the 2 stances because stats lean themselves towards one or the other. Normal attacks -->skills--> repeat, dodge/block on occasion. Playing as a necromancer in d2 you will summon minions/ cast different curses depending on the enemies/ cast poison spells/ bone spells/ bone shield. Too many keys for 3 buttons, thats for sure; and a lot more strategic depth. You will be doing the same things in DS3 regardless of enemies with the exception of the single target/ multiple target distinction and even that is a matter of preference not necessity.

[Oner]

There is more builds, more skills, a the item system is more in-depth and has more modifiers, there's more content, it has randomized content, rune words that extend item system even further, full trading, persistent characters with tons of levels, three different difficulty levels, great multiplayer...I could go on but the fact is it's just a deeper more in depth game with a lot more to offer which is why people continue to play to this day.

I'm not arguing which game is deeper (don't care either way TBH). All I'm saying is, most people play Diablo cause they have fun and have a reason to (or rather, a reason to not stop). I doubt everyone ran a checklist how Diablo should have been before they started playing and said "Everything checks out!"

 

 

You character is never done because there is so many options to explore. It's addicting because there's so much to try out and you always find new stuff.

Exactly.

 

Dungeon Siege 3, while maybe not a bad game, is nowhere even in the vicinity of offering what Diablo offers in terms of gameplay and depth.

DS3 is deep in it's own way.

 

 

BTW, D2 has flaws of it's own. Item progression was horrible (sub-quality stuff(crude, etc)-> magic stuff-> normal quality stuff-> more powerful stuff-> regular demon and sharkskin items start appearing when you already have 1-3 unique and 20 set items). Plus item variety? Great. Often I didn't have to decide which item was better, but which item was less crap. I'm replaying Torchlight right now and it's suffering from the same. On one hand there's a helmet that gives 3-3 poison and electricity resistance, 2 armor and a bit of pet damage. On the other hand there's a helmet that gives thrice as much armor.

In DS3 a few points in one stat's favour makes a more pronounced difference. In D2/TL? Another item that does -30 damage, but gives +2 fire resist. Y.A.Y. Not to say DS3 doesn't have it's share of vendor trash, but here stuff just isn't as good as what you have.

If I was in a foul mood, I'd dare call D2 the trash-selling simulator.

Of course I'm going by the demo, my opinion may change after the full game.

 

 

The Obsidian Defense Squad is massing in the wings. I'm getting low on potions ... I might not make it. Oh no the potions got streamlined out .. where are the damn orbs when I need them.

 

EDIT:

DS3 combat is >>> Lionheart

You're boring, witless, hypocritical and not funny.

 

 

I remember at least 1 DS1 review where the potions were called the not die button, dunno why some pretend they're so important. L2p if you don't wanna die, as a friend would say.

 

And lastly: So DS3 is this and that lite. So? That's what it wants to be. It's not as good as Diablo2? It doesn't want to be. It's not DMC? Doesn't want to be. It's a mixure, for people who want a game like this.

Gods protect us from games being different.

[Subliminal]

And lastly: So DS3 is this and that lite. So? That's what it wants to be. It's not as good as Diablo2? It doesn't want to be. It's not DMC? Doesn't want to be. It's a mixure, for people who want a game like this.

Gods protect us from games being different.

 

It doesn't want to be anything, so therefore its good no matter what it is? Cool, I'll be sure to mention that when I hand in my thesis.

 

Also, it does want to be those things if you look at the promotional material; if it didn't it should be an PSN/XBLA release like some reviewers suggested.

[Oner]

And lastly: So DS3 is this and that lite. So? That's what it wants to be. It's not as good as Diablo2? It doesn't want to be. It's not DMC? Doesn't want to be. It's a mixure, for people who want a game like this.

Gods protect us from games being different.

It doesn't want to be anything, so therefore its good no matter what it is? Cool, I'll be sure to mention that when I hand in my thesis.

Are you suffering from dyslexia maybe?

[Vilhelm]

It doesn't want to be anything, so therefore its good no matter what it is? Cool, I'll be sure to mention that when I hand in my thesis.

 

It does not want to be exactly like certain games, therefore it doesn't want to be anything. Great logic, I'm sure your parents would be proud of you.

[Pidesco]

And lastly: So DS3 is this and that lite. So? That's what it wants to be. It's not as good as Diablo2? It doesn't want to be. It's not DMC? Doesn't want to be. It's a mixure, for people who want a game like this.

Gods protect us from games being different.

 

It doesn't want to be anything, so therefore its good no matter what it is? Cool, I'll be sure to mention that when I hand in my thesis.

 

Also, it does want to be those things if you look at the promotional material; if it didn't it should be an PSN/XBLA release like some reviewers suggested.

 

 

A mixture of several things is nothing? Good show.

[Subliminal]

Thats the sort of logic your using. Not as good as other games? Don't compare them though cause its not like those games. Its good though, even though its not trying too hard.

[Oner]

No, our (well, my) logic is "don't dis it for not being Diablo 2, when it's not, and doesn't want to be it." Does it take inspiration? Yes. Does it borrow elements? Hell yes. Is it the same? No. Do you want an exact copy? Hell no.*

If I use your logic I might as well call Diablo a ****ty Baldur's Gate rip-off.

 

FYI different =/=not as good

 

*And if you want an updated D2, go play Torchlight.

[rc deaths agent]

In Torchlight, or Diablo, or Titan Quest you don't have fine control of your character. You don't have active dodge, active block, combos. It's the reason why continuous attack works with the first games but wouldn't work with Dungeon Siege 3. And it's why Dungeon Siege 3 ends up in a very different genre. The player's manual dexterity is much more important in DS3 than in Diablo.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 and Dark Alliance work as lite versions of Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. You may not enjoy that sort of gameplay, but it is what it is.

 

Lite version I think is the best way to describe everything about Dungeon Siege 3. The combat is a lite version of other beat-em-ups. The leveling system is a lite version. The world design. The item system. Pretty much everything...it's the lite version.

 

Together it's probably pretty good and the game isn't bad...but this is definitely the "lite version" of a A-RPG's of the past and made for the console generation.

Sadly......Wait for LOTR WitN...It may not be a diablo killer (nothing is) but it will be the best console arpg on the current consoles and it will have great multiplayer and awesome loot. Also i like the dark, mature look to it and the inventory looks awesome as well.. Snowblind is making it.

[HoonDing]

Pity I can't enjoy this supposed best combat ever, due to the worst controls & camera ever.

 

Obsidian, I love you, but please fix this.

[Subliminal]

No, our (well, my) logic is "don't dis it for not being Diablo 2, when it's not, and doesn't want to be it." Does it take inspiration? Yes. Does it borrow elements? Hell yes. Is it the same? No. Do you want an exact copy? Hell no.*

If I use your logic I might as well call Diablo a ****ty Baldur's Gate rip-off.

 

FYI different =/=not as good

 

*And if you want an updated D2, go play Torchlight.

 

I'm not advocating sameness; so I'm not sure why this is relevant to what I've mentioned. I could use an example other than diablo 2 and arrive at the same place. Baldur's gate: Dark alliance? Champions of Norath? Marvel ultimate alliance? Dragon Age 2? Paper Mario?

 

Diablo =/= BG. I'm not sure you understand my meaning if you think that follows from "my" logic.

 

 

Torchlight is hardly an updated diablo 2; fun game though and great value. Some interesting innovations too.

[metamag]

Pity I can't enjoy this supposed best combat ever, due to the worst controls & camera ever.

 

Obsidian, I love you, but please fix this.

 

Er, I play it on PC and there are no problems with controls and camera whatsoever, learn to play(look at the second post of this topic) and disable camera auto-orient.

[hopfrog16]

Pity I can't enjoy this supposed best combat ever, due to the worst controls & camera ever.

 

Obsidian, I love you, but please fix this.

 

Er, I play it on PC and there are no problems with controls and camera whatsoever, learn to play(look at the second post of this topic) and disable camera auto-orient.

 

Well... Of course, unless you're left handed. Being able to assign keys would have been nice.

 

To be honest this whole discussion is really pointless...

 

People who want a game like Diablo 2 won't like this game (persistence and replayability. I can't see even the strongest fan of this game giving it more than 4 play throughs ).

 

People who want a game like BG DA with strong couch co-op will like this game (the feel of combat is good I think... could use some improvements, but maybe they will be corrected in a patch, or a sequel).

 

Relax, people...

Edited June 16, 2011 by hopfrog16

[metamag]

Well, I played pretty much every single RPG of any kind(on PC only) in the last 10 years so I can say that combat here feels refreshing and invigorating, like I'm discovering a whole new sub-genre.

 

I hope there will be DLC/expansion or something soon, I can't get enough of it.

[Alvin Nelson]

Pity I can't enjoy this supposed best combat ever, due to the worst controls & camera ever.

 

Obsidian, I love you, but please fix this.

 

Er, I play it on PC and there are no problems with controls and camera whatsoever, learn to play(look at the second post of this topic) and disable camera auto-orient.

 

Well... Of course, unless you're left handed. Being able to assign keys would have been nice.

 

To be honest this whole discussion is really pointless...

 

People who want a game like Diablo 2 won't like this game (persistence and replayability. I can't see even the strongest fan of this game giving it more than 4 play throughs ).

 

People who want a game like BG DA with strong couch co-op will like this game (the feel of combat is good I think... could use some improvements, but maybe they will be corrected in a patch, or a sequel).

 

Relax, people...

 

In another thread we mention that we are implementing keybinding soon. It'll be a patch that will be coming out.

[hopfrog16]

Pity I can't enjoy this supposed best combat ever, due to the worst controls & camera ever.

 

Obsidian, I love you, but please fix this.

 

Er, I play it on PC and there are no problems with controls and camera whatsoever, learn to play(look at the second post of this topic) and disable camera auto-orient.

 

Well... Of course, unless you're left handed. Being able to assign keys would have been nice.

 

To be honest this whole discussion is really pointless...

 

People who want a game like Diablo 2 won't like this game (persistence and replayability. I can't see even the strongest fan of this game giving it more than 4 play throughs ).

 

People who want a game like BG DA with strong couch co-op will like this game (the feel of combat is good I think... could use some improvements, but maybe they will be corrected in a patch, or a sequel).

 

Relax, people...

 

In another thread we mention that we are implementing keybinding soon. It'll be a patch that will be coming out.

 

Aye, I believe I posted this before the announcement... If not, I apologize for incorrect information. Thanks to Obsidian for listening to our complaints, heh. =)

[themo]

Seriously, Dungeon Siege 3 is far better than Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest in every way

 

Wrong... The reality is Dungeon Siege 3 is far far worse than Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest in every way. (well, let`s say "except graphics") You can`t even compare this game to Diablo or Torchlight. Here is some reasons:

 

1) I just don't feel I'm hitting the enemies, it just feels like as if I'm just hitting the air and that kills the fun factor completely for me. That's why I'm bored while playing. Why I`m not bored when playing Diablo, Torchlight but only Ds 3... That`s probably the reason. The best feel of hitting is in Diablo series and Torchlight I think.

 

2) I hated the inventory screen, If the developers used just paperdoll inventory screen like in Ds1 and 2, it would be much much better for me. I can't even see my items in details in my inventory screen or on my character so that makes me want to stop collecting any loot so kills the fun factor.

 

3) I just hated the controls and the camera, couldn't focus on the game while camera automatically zooms in and out!

 

4) I use Helmet but I can't see it on my character! That's really ridiculous in a 2011 game! Actually I can`t really see anything new on my character that also kills the fun factor

 

5) Numbers of skills seem so limited compared to Dungeon Siege 2.

 

 

loot and skill is shallower but not THAT shallow compared to diablo type games

 

YEah, Loot and skill is really THAT shallow compared to other Diablo type games come on! I can't even see Helmet on my character! and you cant compare the (absence of) item variety of Ds3 to Diablo.

 

And let`s not forget about replayability. Diablo is replayability king, that`s why people are still playing it after 11 years, How about Ds3? There is virtually no replayability in Ds 3.

 

So just a couple of combos and blocking does not make a game comparable to Diablo in terms of quality and gameplay.

Edited June 17, 2011 by themo