Witcher 2 Again

[Azure79]

I wouldn't mind if they went full action for the combat, with the inclusion of a jump button. Jump button + attack button = leaping attack. I'm playing TW2 almost like a Jedi Knight game with my signs all designated to different hotkeys for easy access.

 

I would like to see a return to the style system, with different moves you could pull off with directional keys + 2 attack buttons, similar to Jedi Academy.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I wouldn't mind if they went full action for the combat, with the inclusion of a jump button. Jump button + attack button = leaping attack. I'm playing TW2 almost like a Jedi Knight game with my signs all designated to different hotkeys for easy access.

 

Oh God, no. If there's anything The Witcher 2 shown is that CD Projekt RED's combat mechanic prowess is comparable to Obsidian.

 

Hint: it's very very very low. Second hint: Alpha Protocol, The Witcher and The Witcher 2.

 

Next time they should outsource the combat, maybe I will be able to enjoy their game then.

[Lexx]

I really don't get why everyone is whining about the combat mechanism all the time. I can't remember any more or less new game (except shooters) where people didn't complained about sucky combat. Maybe devs should cut out combat totally if it sucks anyway. Then we can have Geralt: The monster talker.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I really don't get why everyone is whining about the combat mechanism all the time.

 

Because they suck.

 

EDIT: I have a high tolerance for bad combat mechanics, but when a role-playing game offers me bad combat mechanics with very few options, and combat makes up 70% of the game, that's when I rage.

Edited June 12, 2011 by WorstUsernameEver

[Lexx]

I haven't played a game with totally sucky combat since years. Sorry, but it's just like that. I am very fine with how the combat mechanism works in W2, I am fine with it in DS3 (hell, even with the controls after I got used to it), yadda-yadda.

 

The hell, I even finished Metal Gear Solid 2 on computer with mouse and keyboard, which was a pain, but I even though it was ****, I never really complained after I've got used with it.

[HoonDing]

In the prologue and chapter 1, Witcher 2 combat is about as good as Arcania. Enemies swing weapons around like idiots -> Geralt dodges and hits them in a back.

 

In the chapters after that, it's about as good as Dragon Age 2. It just boils down to activating Quen, spamming the left/right mousebutton until the adrenaline bar is full, and pushing the Awesome X button. Against bosses that use your own cheesy tactics against you, either spam bombs or use daggers.

 

There's not much to like, really. It was more entertaining in the first game, where new animations would unlock the more you leveled up your styles. The first game also managed to capture the superhuman speed and reflexes that witchers are supposed to have, whereas in the secodn game Geralt moves around as a geriatric.

[Malcador]

I did miss the styles. RPG combat generally isn't exciting for me in the most part, it would have been nice to be able to do stuff like queue attacks - you can sort of do that now, but deal with the wonky targetting and need to be fast on the mouse.

[Azure79]

I wouldn't mind if they went full action for the combat, with the inclusion of a jump button. Jump button + attack button = leaping attack. I'm playing TW2 almost like a Jedi Knight game with my signs all designated to different hotkeys for easy access.

 

Oh God, no. If there's anything The Witcher 2 shown is that CD Projekt RED's combat mechanic prowess is comparable to Obsidian.

 

Hint: it's very very very low. Second hint: Alpha Protocol, The Witcher and The Witcher 2.

 

Next time they should outsource the combat, maybe I will be able to enjoy their game then.

 

Hey, I liked AP combat. Running knee to the face followed by pistol time to drop surrounding enemies. It was fun. Later, I was just kneeing people in the face all the time.

 

Taken as a whole, I find TW2 combat enjoyable. I like the options with the potions, oils, traps, bombs and signs. I can easily have a good time laying down traps and luring enemies into them, then taking them out with bombs. I like the flammable gas bomb + igni combo.

 

There are a lot of ways to play, which is something I enjoy in games. However the sword aspect doesn't make you feel like an expert swordsman, but more of an unpredictable warrior rolling around and taking potshots from behind. In TW1, sure it got a little tedious with just the timed button presses, but Geralt felt deadly. I loved the way he crouched and danced his sword around. I lost a lot of the feel in TW2.

 

Hmm, I feel like an AP playthrough now, with just martial arts.

[Wombat]

I find the combat is just ok but the bugger is that it doesn't offer valid options than it pretends to do, which makes it monotonous. Also, I liked some of the improvement on environmental effects/physics (non-flying ragdolls, swords/armor feel heavier and solid), which, however, work against game-play experience at times. There must be a sweet spot for them to enhance each other.

 

All in all, I'm quite happy with how Witcher 2 turned out. A funny thing about CD Projekt Red is that, while I can find quite many defects in details, I think they manage to make the whole work better than these parts.

 

I think it's just quite hard to satisfy niche audiences. In fact, some points I pointed out was rather tough to improve such as a better mixture of environmental effects/game-play mechanics and a story which keeps some mysteries while not betraying players expectations/reasoning and/or not getting too explanatory at the end (Actually, even suspense/mystery movies with a few hours have this problem).

 

There are a lot of ways to play, which is something I enjoy in games. However the sword aspect doesn't make you feel like an expert swordsman, but more of an unpredictable warrior rolling around and taking potshots from behind. In TW1, sure it got a little tedious with just the timed button presses, but Geralt felt deadly. I loved the way he crouched and danced his sword around. I lost a lot of the feel in TW2.

I agree with the former part. Haven't bought Assassin's Creed yet, but I keep wondering how its sword-play mechanic was done. As for the latter part, though, TW2 is more of action game format and some people even complained of spell-casting/finisher animations...simply, these animations are hard to put in the format. Some formula won't work in the action game style, which is why I wanted to see more useful options in character-builds/crafting for "RPG" factors.

[Calax]

Thought Experiment!

 

How could you actually improve the combat system while retaining the engine (I'm not sure if they're required to keep the camera etc in place due to engine so let's say we do)?

 

Personally I'd probably end up adjusting the gameplay slightly so you could chain together light and heavy attacks to be more like something out of dynasty warriors. The number of light attacks before a heavy attack denotes exactly what sort of strike your heavy attack is and how it's performed.

 

That right there probably could have alleviated a lot of the issues.

[Azure79]

I would love to see some type of Arkham Asylum combat system incorporated. It was simple but offered a lot of variety, didn't break the flow of combat and made you actually feel like Batman.

 

I mean you could do all sorts of things besides attacking and counter-attacking. You could throw enemies into each other, use your gadgets to trip them up, leap over them etc, all while maintaining a fast rhythmic pace.

 

Geralt has been genetically enhanced with strength, speed, agility and reflexes. I could see a combat scenario going like this.

 

Geralt is surrounded. Player attacks enemy in front with combo. Enemies in back move in to strike. The games gives a small cue to let the player to know press the button for counter attack. Geralt can perform two types of counters. One with the sword and one with the currently equipped sign. If sword Geralt and deflty maneuver away from the strike and counter with something of his own. If sign, Geralt can use any of the signs to ward off the attack. For example, Aard staggers the opponent away, Igni gives flame to the face, Quen allows Geralt to block and counter a sword with his arm, Axii redirects the blow to hit another enemy, Yrden paralyzes the attacker for a short time.

 

Or if that's too complicated, just have Geralt counter with a sword maneuver and then while the attacker is staggered, slow down time (accounting for Geralt's super-reflexes and speed) momentarily and give the player options. Aard to shove the attacker away into a pillar or a group of friends, Igni to set the attacker on fire etc. As soon as that sequence is over you can continue to sting together attacks, counter-attacks and such.

 

You can still keep the use of bombs and throwing knives as part of the combo chain, like Batman could do with Batarangs and grappling gun. Traps are still viable too as they need to be set up and planned before combat actually begins.

[Tigranes]

Yep. If they continued with a TW3, I'd really expect to see stuff like that - I was a bit disappointed they couldn't use their new engine to work in more environment interactions in combat. Without going in that direction, Geralt fighting is really quite limited in terms of what you can improve.

[Wombat]

Yea, I haven't played Batman but those would make more sense.

 

I'd try Batman: Arkham Asylum as well as Assassin's Creed series. I just upgraded my PC while back and I'm catching up with modern gaming, finding a solid amount of time. I've updated my info about gaming during E3 and I'll spend less on info-gathering now.

[aries101]

In Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, I had a lot fun, kicking enemies into spikes, trowing barrels at them or even at one time (I think) downing a chandelier on them. I could see Geralt do the same in TW3. I've always wondered why we, or rather our, characters could not interact with the environment more in rpgs? Must be an engine limitation problem or?

[Tigranes]

Yeah, Dark Messiah shows even when your entire game isn't all that great, it can be bloody fun just buy incorporating environment interaction. I suppose to go through with it properly, it really changes it a lot of things - asset management, level design, etc. If you just added it into TW2 the way it is now, it'd be pretty limited - mainly throwing people off high places (which you could do with Aard anyway, I had great fun with that in Vergen).

[Hassat Hunter]

I would love to see some type of Arkham Asylum combat system incorporated. It was simple but offered a lot of variety, didn't break the flow of combat and made you actually feel like Batman.

It was hilariously easy though. Pretty much only way they had to thoughen it was fire-arms, and using "special" foes. Good luck seeing them in a mob of 20 and not ending the combo prematurely.

Good game, but while the animation of combat was great, combat itself was bad.

 

I don't really see too many issues with AP or TW2 though. Many people mention they HAVE to use rolling or Quen? I don't really recall that being the case most of the times. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person who knows how to use the E button reading boards like this...

[Orogun01]

In Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, I had a lot fun, kicking enemies into spikes, trowing barrels at them or even at one time (I think) downing a chandelier on them. I could see Geralt do the same in TW3. I've always wondered why we, or rather our, characters could not interact with the environment more in rpgs? Must be an engine limitation problem or?

Memory limitations, making a whole environment both highly detailed and reactive takes up a lot of space.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I would love to see some type of Arkham Asylum combat system incorporated. It was simple but offered a lot of variety, didn't break the flow of combat and made you actually feel like Batman.

It was hilariously easy though. Pretty much only way they had to thoughen it was fire-arms, and using "special" foes. Good luck seeing them in a mob of 20 and not ending the combo prematurely.

Good game, but while the animation of combat was great, combat itself was bad

 

You're Batman, it HAS to be easy. And the combat system itself was actually pretty deep, though admittedly, given the encounter design you had little chance to sample that.

[HoonDing]

It wasn't difficult to keep a high combo in Arkham Asylum even with enemies around carrying knifes and stun batons, since you could dodge forever without losing your multiplier.

 

What made it really easy was enemies just attacking one by one.

 

The real fun in Arkham Asylum was screwing over a group of armed goons without them even noticing you.

[Azure79]

I would love to see some type of Arkham Asylum combat system incorporated. It was simple but offered a lot of variety, didn't break the flow of combat and made you actually feel like Batman.

It was hilariously easy though. Pretty much only way they had to thoughen it was fire-arms, and using "special" foes. Good luck seeing them in a mob of 20 and not ending the combo prematurely.

Good game, but while the animation of combat was great, combat itself was bad

 

You're Batman, it HAS to be easy. And the combat system itself was actually pretty deep, though admittedly, given the encounter design you had little chance to sample that.

 

Yep, I didn't realize how deep the combat was until I started doing the challenges. I usually don't go for challenge missions in games, but AA's combat was fun enough to get me to play.

[Hassat Hunter]

You know what's funny.

Today I started ramming left mouse like no other on weak enemies like harpies. And it became one fluend spectacle of death.

It kinda reminded me of a game... then it hit me... Batman A:A.

 

So here we are all wanting an A:A system, and it's already in. How amusing. Why it doesn't appear that way is because enemies here don't take turns, instead of going to you one at one, they surely battle as soon as they can. And that breaks the combo. But if you fight enemies who fight in weak but large numbers you can see the system as is, since they don't have time to retaliate before you go to the next...

[Nightshape]

I would love to see some type of Arkham Asylum combat system incorporated. It was simple but offered a lot of variety, didn't break the flow of combat and made you actually feel like Batman.

It was hilariously easy though. Pretty much only way they had to thoughen it was fire-arms, and using "special" foes. Good luck seeing them in a mob of 20 and not ending the combo prematurely.

Good game, but while the animation of combat was great, combat itself was bad.

 

I don't really see too many issues with AP or TW2 though. Many people mention they HAVE to use rolling or Quen? I don't really recall that being the case most of the times. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person who knows how to use the E button reading boards like this...

 

Honestly... AP, are you MAD!

 

I guess some folk are fanboi's to a fault.

[Nightshape]

In Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, I had a lot fun, kicking enemies into spikes, trowing barrels at them or even at one time (I think) downing a chandelier on them. I could see Geralt do the same in TW3. I've always wondered why we, or rather our, characters could not interact with the environment more in rpgs? Must be an engine limitation problem or?

Memory limitations, making a whole environment both highly detailed and reactive takes up a lot of space.

 

This is less of a problem for PC games... Its only part of the issue, more physics == more power, PC's CPU's aren't VPU heavy like console cpu's etc... It's a balancing act.

 

The main reason though, time... From both an art and a code perspective, getting that stuff right is hard.

[Hassat Hunter]

Honestly... AP, are you MAD!

 

I guess some folk are fanboi's to a fault.

Apparently.

 

I really liked DX's system (aim before shooting), and guess what... DX uses it.

I definitely think that's the way to go for action RPG's. Not insta-aim like most FPS, or horrid systems like "here's where you might hit, good luck" like Vampire: Bloodlines.

Auto-aiming like the ME2 vehicle is an option too, but that utterly sucks of course.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Hassat Hunter

[Azure79]

That actually did spring to mind while I was playing Hassat. I felt like could do all the things like in AA, but in the end it wasn't smooth as AA.

 

I think its mostly because you can transition from attack to counter-attack very smoothly in AA, but in TW2, there isn't really a way to counter attack someone coming from a different angle, just block or roll out of the way.

 

Since you can't transition from attack - counter attack, I found myself rolling away and running in circles trying not to get flanked a lot. It's not how I envision a master swordsman (in a fantasy setting) would fight.