The Witcher 2

[Hell Kitty]

The whole emo-romance Bio thing, with people devoting hundreds of pages of fan-slobbering over imaginary NPCs is creepy. That's what I meant, you know that's what I meant so that was a cheap slur.

 

An apology would be helpful.

 

Actually I didn't realise that what what you meant. I do think it's delightful they you want an apology because you were actually insulting a more diverse group of people.

[greylord]

Wow, well I learned something. I actually trust the stats BW gets, as they get them off the machines connected to their servers as people play from what I can tell. That probably gives them a good ability to get accurate numbers.

 

So what did I learn...for some reason BW games attract a LOT of Homosexual players. So many in fact that it would mute any complaints of disturbed Heterosexual players. I would guess that would mean if the sales are that significant that they would make such a drastic thing in DA2 where everyone can sleep with everyone, you're (and here's conjecture) talking of numbers of 30-60% of players are either homosexual or try the homosexual romances. That's not an insignificant number of sales.

 

It does make one go hmmm...and wonder about the demographics and such. Why would so many more Homosexuals be playing this game vs. heterosexuals to make such significant numbers?

 

And here's the stereotype...one also wonders...if the homosexual crowd is such a big percentage of buyers of BW...will BW's next game franchise be some sort of musical Adult game with a lot of dancing and hidden references to broadway?

 

Afterall, from Gaider's statement it appears that it would appeal to a major demographic of their gamers...and if they are willing to ignore some statements by the heterosexual gamers...it would indicate the homosexual gamers could carry BW by themselves...or at least a BW game.

 

Interesting...

 

PS: As an aside, I think there are many Heterosexual gamers Gaider offended with his choice of romances...but not all speak out or say it. For many, having a male...or female hit on them is offensive or off-putting, having it done multiple times...is even more offending. Perhaps the one choice of a homosexual or lesbian romance is a better option to cater to that audience than forcing everyone to be bi...afterall, last time I checked the world isn't a majority of Bi either. Of course, the other thing could be that they make it so that you can't ignore it even...and put it blatantly in front of you. Gayboy as I call him...is rather annoying in that aspect (that's Anders...not Gaider...for you people wondering). I haven't gone to the forums and made as big a stink about it as some...but Gaider ranting on many of those who are customers instead of perhaps keeping his yap quiet-unless his goal is to actually DECREASE sales...si probably not the smartest thing.

 

He should have simply stated that they were constrained in time and money due to EA restraints-though that seems like an even bigger thing they can't say recently...to blame EA for some of the faults like reused areas...etc. - and creating the romances in such a way was a time and money saver that allowed them to put other content in. That's far more politically correct, offends far less, and doesn't make him come off as some ****-*** who could care less about anyone but the specifically Far Left Gay Rights agenda (and there are OTHER Homosexuals out there that DO NOT favor that agenda who may also be offended by his words in that quoted peice of text).

 

If he keeps that attitude up, not that it will affect their sales that much, it means I probably WON'T buy the next DA3...not that my vote of buying it or not matters. Apparantly they have enough homosexuals players to keep their sales numbers up all by themselves.

 

Second Edit: Does this mean that I should definately buy the Witcher 2...we know what slant that game takes towards their sexuality...

Edited April 9, 2011 by greylord

[WorstUsernameEver]

Words.

 

Bottom line is, you're feeling insulted because they're catering to a group you actively discriminate again. That's cute.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Words.

 

Bottom line is, you're feeling insulted because they're catering to a group you actively discriminate again. That's cute.

 

I've known a few homosexual individuals in my life. I suggest you ask them about this "discrimination" yourself, lest your eyes be brown like Gaider's.

[greylord]

Words.

 

Bottom line is, you're feeling insulted because they're catering to a group you actively discriminate again. That's cute.

 

I think it's more of the opposite effect, discriminating against Heterosexuals. I actuallly was annoyed but not offended until I read Gaider's post. To me that actually speaks FAR more towards a person being discriminatory (in this case...ironically, towards heterosexuals...and if taken the wrong way, even against homosexuals as everyone of the romances is BI instead of being one way or the other...great way to save money...not so great at appealing to everyone) than much of what I've read elsewhere.

 

I can't actually believe he came out and stated that...that's a pretty big slam towards Heterosexual gamers. I guess that he simply wants them to go away and not buy games by him?

 

That's typically what starts to happen when you discriminate against a type of person, they stop buying your stuff.

 

 

One other edit: Up until I read the statement by Gaider...I was had an even bigger problem with the fact that all romance options in DA2 were Psychos instead of anyone that was somewhat normal. Now, I think it's Gaider's attitude towards Heterosexual gamers (aka, most gamers in the world I would assume, but perhaps not that many playing BW games?) that actually has disturbed me the most about DA2.

Edited April 9, 2011 by greylord

[WorstUsernameEver]

Words.

 

Bottom line is, you're feeling insulted because they're catering to a group you actively discriminate again. That's cute.

 

I think it's more of the opposite effect, discriminating against Heterosexuals. I actuallly was annoyed but not offended until I read Gaider's post. To me that actually speaks FAR more towards a person being discriminatory (in this case...ironically, towards heterosexuals...and if taken the wrong way, even against homosexuals as everyone of the romances is BI instead of being one way or the other...great way to save money...not so great at appealing to everyone) than much of what I've read elsewhere.

 

I can't actually believe he came out and stated that...that's a pretty big slam towards Heterosexual gamers. I guess that he simply wants them to go away and not buy games by him?

 

That's typically what starts to happen when you discriminate against a type of person, they stop buying your stuff.

 

 

How is he possibly discriminating against heterosexual gamers if the heterosexual romances are still in the game?

[greylord]

Words.

 

Bottom line is, you're feeling insulted because they're catering to a group you actively discriminate again. That's cute.

 

I think it's more of the opposite effect, discriminating against Heterosexuals. I actuallly was annoyed but not offended until I read Gaider's post. To me that actually speaks FAR more towards a person being discriminatory (in this case...ironically, towards heterosexuals...and if taken the wrong way, even against homosexuals as everyone of the romances is BI instead of being one way or the other...great way to save money...not so great at appealing to everyone) than much of what I've read elsewhere.

 

I can't actually believe he came out and stated that...that's a pretty big slam towards Heterosexual gamers. I guess that he simply wants them to go away and not buy games by him?

 

That's typically what starts to happen when you discriminate against a type of person, they stop buying your stuff.

 

 

How is he possibly discriminating against heterosexual gamers if the heterosexual romances are still in the game?

 

It's not the game itself. It's him calling heterosexuals idiots and other items that is discriminatory. Actually some of his comments towards anyone not Bi-sexual is actually downright offensive...and he's saying he's being polite...which means his real attitude towards us is actually pretty mean hearted.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It's not the game itself. It's him calling heterosexuals idiots and other items that is discriminatory. Actually some of his comments towards anyone not Bi-sexual is actually downright offensive...and he's saying he's being polite...which means his real attitude towards us is actually pretty mean hearted.

 

No, no he's not. Listen, I dislike David Gaider's design philosophy and I think that making everyone a cookie-cutter bisexual is a cop-out, but you're putting things in his mouth to carry out an agenda. That's dishonest and I'd invite you to stop doing it just to sugarcoat what's essentially a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Luckily for you guys, Geralt was straight in the book and it looks like he's still straight here.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Not to mention that only having bi-sexuals as possible partners could be seen as discriminatory. After all most heterosexuals do not actively seek or desire a bisexual partner.

[greylord]

It's not the game itself. It's him calling heterosexuals idiots and other items that is discriminatory. Actually some of his comments towards anyone not Bi-sexual is actually downright offensive...and he's saying he's being polite...which means his real attitude towards us is actually pretty mean hearted.

 

No, no he's not. Listen, I dislike David Gaider's design philosophy and I think that making everyone a cookie-cutter bisexual is a cop-out, but you're putting things in his mouth to carry out an agenda. That's dishonest and I'd invite you to stop doing it just to sugarcoat what's essentially a knee-jerk reaction.

 

Luckily for you guys, Geralt was straight in the book and it looks like he's still straight here.

 

No...he states this towards his heterosexual gamers from what I read

 

While an ignorant opinion politely expressed doesn't make it less ignorant, I will say that the behavior of some of you is far worse

 

And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.

 

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

 

These are all offensive to me.

 

First he calls me ignorant from what I can tell, then he staes that I'm being catered to so much that I see a lack of catering as an imbalance (the game doesn't cater at all...in fact in many cases it blatantly ignores ANY sort of balance in that arena and caters mostly to the bisexual and homosexual crowd). finally he says restricting options for others is horrendous...but he's already restricted options for the heterosexual gamers...and also the Homosexual gamers...the only ones he actually caters to are those who are Bisexual...as those are the ONLY romance options...and the ones who don't care if their partner is Bisexual. Many heterosexuals want a heterosexual partner...and believe it or not...many Homosexuals want Homosexual partners...not someone that's going to flip the other direction depending on the night.

 

As I said...previous to this my problem was more that all the options were psychos...but his comments show a blatant...arrogance that looks down on anyone who may feel uncomfortable with the way they designed their romances...and THAT's discrimantory and discrimination. THAT is FAR more bothersome than ANYTHING else I've read...and PROBABLY WOULD make me feel like not supporting the DA series anymore.

 

Normally people from companies are smart enough not to go out and make foolish statements like he did. The claim of money and time restrictions are completely legit and neutral. Instead of trying to explain himself...he should have stayed out of it completely. Dissing on customers because of sexual preferences is a prime way to really make customers dislike you and rather mad at what many will see as active discrimination where they may not have seen it previously.

 

I have now taken the idea that Gaider himself is a pretty discriminatory guy...I have no idea why he feels like he is priviledged enough to be such a heterophobe...but it's disturbing. Probably more so than the Psychotics that were your romance options in DA2.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Wow, you guys live in a magical world where bisexuals hook up only with bisexuals. Now your argument makes sense, I didn't get that you were living in a bizzarro dimension the first time. Silly me.

[Oner]

ITT: eye-rollercoaster

[Monte Carlo]

The whole emo-romance Bio thing, with people devoting hundreds of pages of fan-slobbering over imaginary NPCs is creepy. That's what I meant, you know that's what I meant so that was a cheap slur.

 

An apology would be helpful.

 

Actually I didn't realise that what what you meant. I do think it's delightful they you want an apology because you were actually insulting a more diverse group of people.

 

 

Fail.

[Monte Carlo]

I find the sex in The Witcher tiresome and borderline puerile. Then again, it's sort of a break from the Bioware-as-Joss-Wheedon nonsense too. TW is an Eastern European game, so it's sensibilities are different from politically-correct kuddly Kanada. I understand that.

 

For me, personally, I'd prefer there to be no sexualised romances in games. Whatsoever. Why?

 

1. Personal preference, obviously

2. Whoever writes them appears to have had limited experience of R/L 'romance'

3. Wouldn't it be refreshing to have a meaningful yet platonic relationship in a CRPG? They did it in DA:O with Sten to a certain extent.

4. You are pandering to a customer base who will always want MOAR. Needy, squee-mongers. Deny that Bioware haven't been completely misdirected by romances - their games are now predicated on romanceable NPCs and yes their omni-sexuality is more about assets re-use than about characterization (just like the environments) which makes it doubly lame. Make character 'A' straight, make character 'B' gay and make character 'C' bi... I couldn't care less but at least make the freaking characters consistent. All Gaider is saying is that he has to satisfy the voracious romance-hungry fanbase and is thus forced to make all characters romanceable. It's a corner he's painted himself into.

5. As per my point above the romance-beast eats up asset time that could be put into something else, accessible to everybody. That's my main beef with them, but hey as we can see Bio have made themselves the romance-simulator purveyors of choice which is why I'll never buy any of their games again.

 

So I can see why some gamers peversely support the antediluvian position The Witcher takes apropos sexualit. I don't personally, but at least it provides an asset-lite alternative to the button-mash / Twilight / button-mash of the Bio experience.

[Lexx]

For me, personally, I'd prefer there to be no sexualised romances in games.

 

Me too. But only because it's presented really bad in most case, up to just embaressing.

[WorstUsernameEver]

By the way, the battle music was already in the pre-order for The Witcher 2.

[Hell Kitty]

The whole emo-romance Bio thing, with people devoting hundreds of pages of fan-slobbering over imaginary NPCs is creepy. That's what I meant, you know that's what I meant so that was a cheap slur.

 

An apology would be helpful.

 

Actually I didn't realise that what what you meant. I do think it's delightful they you want an apology because you were actually insulting a more diverse group of people.

 

Fail.

 

El Oh El. You respond with an insult to a question asking about sexuality, and I'm at fault for not realising your insult had nothing to do with sexuality. You ask for an apology in the same post you call me a half-wit. You're a fool.

[Tigranes]

What the hell are you people doing to my beloved TW2 thread? Get out! Just LEAVE ME ALONE!

 

 

re: Gaider quote, I do feel that it's nice he sometimes tells you what he really thinks about stuff like that, though putting up with 10+ years of internet wars about romances of every sort and type has turned him into a rather jaded let the chips fall where they may sort. I don't think anything he says there is truly problematic and that it's not really constructive to nitpick it so much, proving another example to devso ut there why they shouldn't communicate with fans.

[Monte Carlo]

The whole emo-romance Bio thing, with people devoting hundreds of pages of fan-slobbering over imaginary NPCs is creepy. That's what I meant, you know that's what I meant so that was a cheap slur.

 

An apology would be helpful.

 

Actually I didn't realise that what what you meant. I do think it's delightful they you want an apology because you were actually insulting a more diverse group of people.

 

Fail.

 

El Oh El. You respond with an insult to a question asking about sexuality, and I'm at fault for not realising your insult had nothing to do with sexuality. You ask for an apology in the same post you call me a half-wit. You're a fool.

 

We should stop arguing in this thread, suffice it to say I'm a fool and you're snide, snarky and disingenous. OK?

[Hell Kitty]

Yes, we should stop arguing by continuing with the insults.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Uh, by the way, a video of one of the love scenes popped up on Youtube too.

[Malcador]

Well this thread got really gay, for some reason.

 

 

[Rosbjerg]

Let's stay on topic please.. If this derails again I'll be handing out warnings.

[Volourn]

"Not to mention that only having bi-sexuals as possible partners could be seen as discriminatory. "

 

Actually, there is a heterosexual romance in the game... that you can't have sex with. Heh.

[RPGmasterBoo]

"Not to mention that only having bi-sexuals as possible partners could be seen as discriminatory. "

 

Actually, there is a heterosexual romance in the game... that you can't have sex with. Heh.

 

True love?