Dragon Age 2

[entrerix]

ok, played this for about 10 hours

 

DA2: My initial thoughts.

 

Not as different from DAO as ME2 was from ME1. The problem is, I liked 90% of the changes they made for ME2, while for DA2, I only like about 50% of the changes.

 

Start with the bad first cause its more fun to bash:

 

HATE the camera, it won't let me pull back to get a strategic view of the field, for absolutely no reason that I can understand. I am eagerly awaiting a mod to fix this.

 

I'm only ten hours in and I've gone into the EXACT same cave 3 times, I honestly can't think of a game I've played with lazier dungeon design. (note i said lazy, not bad, more on that later...)

 

Im only ten hours in and I'm already bored of kirkwall, this isnt purely a DA2 problem though, I got bored of athkatla just as fast, i like a lot of variety in my environment, even if its just 1 city (i never have gotten bored with Sigil)

 

now onto the good:

 

dialogue and characters are on par with DAO, take that for what you will. I mostly liked that stuff in DAO, and I mostly like it here. Varric is my favorite npc so far, which is odd because I was expecting to hate him. Fenris is a tool so far.

 

combat: its actually more fun than DAO. Not because its actiony excitement (though it is a slight improvement in this new style) but mostly because the dungeons are more frequent but SHORTER, and the encounters aren't as long and tedious. Enemies do more damage and so do you, so fights are over faster 80% of the time. It also helps that I have built my party into a pure offensive blitz team. It might not work on hard or nightmare, but on normal having 2 warriors wielding twohanders for crowds, and a wizard and a rogue focused on spiking, lets me just whip through encounters so fast that my party barely has time to get hurt before the enemies are down. I've still died a couple of times, mostly when I accidentally let my mage get surrounded, but generally, normal is really easy. I will play on hard next time. ALSO: I completely agree with azure's write up of how combat works. Its actually a lot more fun than DAO cone of cold = win button.

 

dungeon design: its pretty strange, the environments are copy-paste hack jobs that make me mad at either insanely lazy designers, or more likely, an insanely rushed product. However, because the dungeons so far are much shorter, and the encounters go much faster, than in DAO, I haven't been struck with the combat fatigue that made DAO so borderline-unplayable on second and third runthroughs. The real test here again will be if I can do a second or third playthrough without getting bored though, because DAO was awesome my first time through it and I suffered very little dungeon fatigue.

 

that was pretty rambling, sorry.

 

tldr: after 10 hours the game seems about as good as DAO, just different in some ways.

 

 

edit: some thoughts on the streamlining: not actually that bad in this game, but as a trend I'm sick of it.

 

developers need to start making games for adults who have been playing games for 20 years and dont just rent them from blockbuster to play with their friends at sleepovers.

Edited March 11, 2011 by entrerix

[WDeranged]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-...ge-ii-interview

 

Get the f*** out of here. That guy can't be real.

 

I'm surprised how anyone can interview him for that long, he's manic like a crackhead

[entrerix]

funny, i see a lot of people saying that mike laidlaw is living on another planet. What I saw in that interview was someone in damage control mode, who has realized that maybe this is a bit of an "oops" situation. If he's being honest about the team looking at feedback then maybe all this complaining and DA2 bashing will do some good and we'll have a more sophisticated product in DA3. if and when that gets made.

 

I still don't think the game is a trainwreck though, its actually pretty fun, better than Jade Empire at least.

[Orogun01]

I have to agree with Volo here. Dragon Age 2 is far more of a traditional sequel to DAO than people give it credit for.

 

Frankly.... I don't get what all the bad rep is about. Bashing DA2 seems to have become some sort of internet phenomena. Obviously, the game has it's problems, and I'm sure more will pop out when people look at the game files closer. But the difference to DA:O isn't that big, and there's lots of good stuff in the game. Critique is due, but the overall quality isn't bad enough to bash it to the ground. It's definitely a Bioware-quality game (whatever that means to you). If one didn't dislike DA:O, I see no reason not to buy DA2.

DA:O had it's share of problems, none of which were solved in DA2. They just took the game in a different direction than what I would had like to see which is an honest to god true WRPG. Aside from the name and some common elements I don't see much of a resemblance between the 2 games, specially in the visuals department, gameplay-wise, the dialog wheel, it's 2 completely different games. I had hoped that DA2 would had embraced the things that made 1 great, instead of fixing the issues with one they threw everything out of the window.

 

@Enterix: JE>DA2

Edited March 11, 2011 by Orogun01

[entrerix]

i didnt like JE, so i definitely don't see where you're coming from on that end, but when I'm playing DA2, it still feels a lot like I'm playing a dragon age game, it doesnt feel as different as ME2 did from ME1.

[Niten_Ryu]

I can't quite get my head around the scale of backlash

 

I don't think it's that difficult to understand. If you remove or change enough features, it's likely that some potential customers will reach their individual breaking point where they no longer feel that game with worth their money or at least not worth at full price.

 

For example I really disliked enemy waves, magically teleporting enemies and loss of the isometric camera. These are obvious changes for someone who played PC version of the Dragon Age Origins, but console gamer might not notice any difference at all between Dragon Age Origian and Dragon Age 2 in that area. In console version of Dragon Age Origins enemies attacked often in waves, while PC version allowed much larger static groups of mobs.

 

That's not the only thing I dislike about Dragon Age brand or this latest game. But then again I only rated Dragon age Origins 6/10 (or best run with my Chaotic Stupid mage 7/10 ). Thus for me to buy Dragon Age 2 at full price would have required several improvements or additional features, rather then less of 'em. Also some of the reviewers (and messageboard users) apply some weird revisionist idea of Dragon Age Origins, how it was some magical game that couldn't do no wrong. Sure, maybe for the younger crowd but in general Dragon Age Origins wasn't anything special and if it would have been released in late 90's or early 2000, it would have been just another mediocre CRPG. Thus if someone has idealised version in their mind about Dragon Age Origians, it's no wonder that there's huge backslash from those users

[Monte Carlo]

^ You've nailed most of the issues for me, the crippler though is the general sense of direction. Origins marked a move in the right direction, it was tantalizingly close to suggesting that the next one would mark another move in the right direction (for gamers like me, anyhow).

 

Instead you've got EA, rush-job, lowest-common denominator, action-orientated stuff with the trademark Bio game-as-novel schtick (one of my least favourite traits anyhow).

 

So even at bargain bin prices this is a no-show for me. If DA:O had been an action-y console title too this would be no biggie, but imperfect as it was it was still a solid CRPG.

[Meshugger]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-...ge-ii-interview

 

Get the f*** out of here. That guy can't be real.

 

No, seriously, criticism is in fact a compliment in BioWorld because it means people have been 'challenged.'

 

The internet has looked at DA2 and, by and large (certainly compared to Origins) gone.... meh.

 

I'm surprised how anyone can interview him for that long, he's manic like a crackhead

 

:Cocaine is one hell of a drug.jpg:

[entrerix]

the crippler though is the general sense of direction. Origins marked a move in the right direction, it was tantalizingly close to suggesting that the next one would mark another move in the right direction (for gamers like me, anyhow).

 

 

i really agree with this statement.

 

DA2 on its own merits is not a terrible, or even bad game, but it is a symbol/symptom of other problems in the crpg genre (whats left of it)

[Tigranes]

Interesting comments. In my case, personally, yes I liked DAO a lot and I was disappointed by the direction here, but that's not why - it's just that from everything I've seen and heard, DA2 simply appears to be a bad, rushed, not-fun game. (And then the bonus of the combination of stupid marketing / PR that lies to you, blackmails your enthusiasm then bans you from playing if you're not nice).

 

I like Action RPGs, I think they're fun. I just don't know why you'd insist on making this weird halfway between a real RPG and Exploding Tomato Sauce Action Game, where you swerve wildly between taking a quest from someone then having people pop out of thin air to fight you in waves so they can explode into 37 pieces.

 

edit: ... and having said all that, part of me still wants to try it. Bloody consumerism

[entrerix]

it's just that from everything I've seen and heard, DA2 simply appears to be a bad, rushed, not-fun game.

 

 

are you talking about the people who are actually playing the game or the people who are complaining about what they have seen and heard? Cause from what I can tell, the people actually playing the game are mostly saying its not bad, and is actually fun, despite being a rushed product.

[Tigranes]

People who actually played the game. Keep in mind that they might tell me it's fun, but from the details they give me it might seem unfun to me, but I certainly don't think criticism is so neatly limited to people who haven't played the game.

[entrerix]

i wasnt trying to say that everyone who plays it likes it, but there are a LOT of people complaining about it who haven't even played it yet.

[Volourn]

Naysayers who bash DA2 while loving DA1 are funny b/c DA2 is thes equel to DA1.

 

I just finished a quest, and while trying to do the right thing I'm not 100% sure it was. There was nothing like that in DA1 even with some of the more awesome quests where the 'ideal' solution was obvious.

 

I haven't noticed too many repeat dungeons yet as all of them seem varied - at least way more than ME1.

 

DA1 is not an action game. It's an rpg with action elements as stats do matter. So, ana rgument can be made , at best, that it is an action rpg.. just a very deep one.. much deeper than DA1.

 

heck, with the companions, there was a few I was hating on pre release (the silly pirate captain girl with big boobs as one example) but her introduction in game alone made me like her. I was planning to avoid romances in DA2, but two of the characters have made me question that decision.

 

Heck. The Uncle Gamlen character. When I first emt him and for a little bit I loatehd him, but as the story has unfolded and I've spoken with him, he's not completely hrorible and has some redeeming features is mostly to be felt sorry for.

 

Also, it should be noted, that for romance haters, you can no longer whine about how you can 'accidentally' be in a romance. It's 100% impossible.

 

People whine about the rpg stuff that was atken but they don't talk about the rpg stuff that was added .

 

ie. more clarity on how your character will say soemthing.. you can even lie in dialogue as one exmaple.. and, they do make a difference between a ahcaracetr who does thinsg for money or one does thinsg for evil lols.

 

ie. you can have companions speak in dialogue and they can help youa void confrontation

 

ie. actions and chocies will often close quests and the like and make you lose friends.

[sorophx]

the LP thread at Codex has already gone out of control, every post begins with words "this game is shiit"

[Volourn]

What do you expect at the Codex? The Codex hates all BIO games no exceptions.

 

In fact, outside of people who haven't even played the game, Obsidian forumites have proabbly been the most positve about DA2 which is a rarity on the Obsidian forums where hating on BIO is the kewl thing to do.

[Starwars]

I've been playing the game for a bit and I think it's been pretty disappointing for the most part quite honestly. However, I can also say that it is a game that does get a bit better the longer it goes on.

 

The real killer for me is definitely the encounter design which is a damn shame because the combat system is pretty fun if a bit too fast. The "spawn-waves" gets old *really* fast and you'll soon learn to anticipate just how and where the spawns are set-up. "Yeah, only a few enemies left in this wave which means it's time to move back to that passage I just passed through because the game will definitely spawn a few enemies there that will likely go after your mage." It gets old extremely quick which is a shame because encounters are frequent in the combat areas.

 

Another failed opportunity is Kirkwall itself. I loved the idea of a "city-adventure", and while the city looks pretty and has an interesting history to it, it ultimately feels extremely non-interactive and... not very interesting. Very little happens except that you'll get the occasional new quest NPC in the areas. It really needed more attention overall because you spend such a large amount of time in it.

 

The voiced main character is sorta ho-hum. I went with a female Hawke who mostly does the sarcastic thing, but most of the time the humor sorta falls flat. A lot of the wit in the game (and there is a fair amount of it) just sorta fails most of the time because it's just... not funny enough.

 

That said, some of the quests that aren't fed-ex quests (again, there are a fair amount of those) have interesting choices to them and I am interested to see how this will play out in the grand scheme of the game. I hope they will come through on the consequence thing because there is much potential there in terms of how the time-line moves forward. And I think that some of the quests *really* get the grey morality right. Some of them really did a good job of making me scratch my head a bit before choosing.

 

I never liked the direction they were taking with DA2 but the game so far has kinda failed even in the areas I really *were* looking forward to. So, pretty disappointed so far. But, like I said, I do feel the game is getting a bit better as I play more and more.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Starwars

[entrerix]

hopefully all the backlash will lead to some dramatic improvements for whatever this team works on next.

 

trying to capture new fans by pissing off the die hards who have been buying your games for over ten years is a stupid strategy.

[Tale]

I thought the general opinion was that the "die hards" who've been buying Bioware games for 10 years are just the people looking for dating sims.

 

It's not like this game is Neverwinter Nights. Which is a terrible game that only appeals to Diablo fans and custom content. Or Mass Effect, which is a corridor shooter for Xbox kiddies. There simply is no consistency to make the claim that this is a radical divergence anymore than half the games Bioware has made this century. Most of their games are different.

 

Bioware even got this awkward reputation as a great PCRPG developer when prior to DAO they'd been focusing on Xbox games for the past 3 titles.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Tale

[entrerix]

i guess you're right, i probably should have said die-hard rpg fans, and not die hard bio fans, cause those are definitely not the same thing in most cases

[sorophx]

It's not like this game is Neverwinter Nights. Which is a terrible game that only appeals to Diablo fans and custom content.

this is insulting! Diablo fans like BG: Dark Alliance II, not NWN.

 

it's good to hear BioWare took notes from Obsidian (NWN2 and AP have been a big influence on the DA2 team apparently)

[entrerix]

also: diablo is awesome. NWN is poop.

[Tale]

I couldn't help but troll those games. Mass Effect 1 got some forgiveness from me recently, but I'll never recover from Neverwinter Nights.

 

The only drastic departure of Dragon Age 2 over everything else they've done after Baldur's Gate is companion armor. That's hardly alienating RPG fans. I know it's a hangup for some people, but it is not some great offense or "dumbing down." And it's still more complex than Mass Effect 2. Which is itself a great game.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Tale

[sorophx]

but it is not some great offense

yes, it is. because instead of customizing my 3 characters, that I want to follow me through the whole game, I'd have to switch them every time a different approach was needed. maybe that was BioWare's goal all along but I'm not sure if I'd want to play a party-based game in such a manner

[Volourn]

l0l NWN was awesome. Diablo was poop.

 

LONG LIVE NWN DEATH TO ALL OTHERS!