Bendu Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 DAO DLC got critique for reusing maps as well. I'm at the end of act 2 and can not play further, because my game is bugged. Hawke is always attacking in slow motion. Hope they fix it soon.
GreasyDogMeat Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) How could they not have expected it 'to be such a big deal'? DA 2 has a MUCH smaller scope, yet it reuses areas far more than DA 1 did. Even when DA 1 reused numerous exterior random battle maps, even then they had SOME variety in the map. I can recall at least 5 distinct encounter maps and most dungeon/interior section maps were unique as opposed to DA 2 which has only one cave map, one Orzamar dungeon etc. Also take into account that this is fricken' 2011. I had thought they had learned their lesson. Mass Effect reused many areas, but managed to be large enough in scope that it wasn't too bad. DA 1 reuses fewer maps, then ME 2 comes out and almost every area is unique, then suddenly we are jumping back to design worse than any of their previous games. I'm going to try and list every unique area, just for kicks. -Pre-Kirkwall Areas Lothering Escape (Only used once in the game at the very start, if you played the demo you remember this one.) -Kirkwall Areas Kirkwall Arrival docks (Used only once in game when you first arrive at Kirkwall. Might actually be connected to Gallows section) The Gallows Templar HQ (Also acts as the Fade map) Lowtown The Hanged Man (Love the music in here btw) Gemlen's House (Used a few times for generic houses. Merril's house is also similar) Darktown City Underground (Reused over and over anytime you need to visit some section of 'undercity') Hightown Hawk's Estate Generic Estate House Underground Ruins (The one other cave design that is only used once or twice while generic cave is used over and over) Red Lantern District Inn (Forgot the name of it. The place where you can hire prostitutes) The Chantry The Docks Dock House -Outside Kirkwall The Generic Cave (Almost every major listed section has one or more Generic Cave. They all have identical layout) Bone Pit/Lower Bone Pit (One map, but you have to go through a generic cave to get to lower section) Wounded Coast Sundermount Sundermount Cave (wow, one unique cave I forgot about. Only one small cavern though) Deep Roads Orzamar Dungeon That is 24 unique areas I recall, some of which (Gemlen's House, Sundermount Cave, Dock House) are tiny one room areas. You have to visit and revisit these locations constantly in a 50 hour RPG. Edited March 23, 2011 by GreasyDogMeat
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 IMO they had no choice because of the time frame given to them by their task master. Now they're lying about it. It's not like I didn't complain enough about that in ME on DAO forums. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Amentep Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 People are woo to much swelling up the romances in Bio RPGs. Freudian slip? I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
entrerix Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 the constant reusing of areas just makes the game feel like a cheap slapdash effort. Particularly because its been so heavily criticized in other games for the past... forever. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Monte Carlo Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Their excuse is mealy-mouthed and hubristic. I'm obviously with Wrath of Dagon on this one, just don't buy their crap in the first place. I haven't and the sky didn't fall in.
Amentep Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I'm going to try and list every unique area, just for kicks.-Pre-Kirkwall Areas Lothering Escape (Only used once in the game at the very start, if you played the demo you remember this one.) -Kirkwall Areas Kirkwall Arrival docks (Used only once in game when you first arrive at Kirkwall. Might actually be connected to Gallows section) The Gallows Templar HQ (Also acts as the Fade map) Lowtown The Hanged Man (Love the music in here btw) Gemlen's House (Used a few times for generic houses. Merril's house is also similar) Darktown City Underground (Reused over and over anytime you need to visit some section of 'undercity') Hightown Hawk's Estate Generic Estate House Underground Ruins (The one other cave design that is only used once or twice while generic cave is used over and over) Red Lantern District Inn (Forgot the name of it. The place where you can hire prostitutes) The Chantry The Docks Dock House -Outside Kirkwall The Generic Cave (Almost every major listed section has one or more Generic Cave. They all have identical layout) Bone Pit/Lower Bone Pit (One map, but you have to go through a generic cave to get to lower section) Wounded Coast Sundermount Sundermount Cave (wow, one unique cave I forgot about. Only one small cavern though) Deep Roads Orzamar Dungeon That is 24 unique areas I recall, some of which (Gemlen's House, Sundermount Cave, Dock House) are tiny one room areas. You have to visit and revisit these locations constantly in a 50 hour RPG. Red Lantern District Inn = The Blooming Rose Also Viscounts Keep and I think the Alley map (used for the gas plot, for example). Did you count the Disused Path underground in the Docks? (I'm thinking its unique, but my memory...hazy - maybe its the Merchant there throwing me off). Also the Approach to the Wounded Coast (the ambush site for Aveline's re-intro after the first year and the escaped Mages quest) I don't think is used for anything other than the Approach to the Wounded Coast. There's the Generic Outside Map (used for the Ironbark quest, the last map in the Ketojan quest, etc) I'm assuming the Dock House is the generic interior used for the two foundries and a lot of the thieves quest? I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Morgoth Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 the constant reusing of areas just makes the game feel like a cheap slapdash effort. Particularly because its been so heavily criticized in other games for the past... forever. There weren't that many areas outside Kirkwall to begin with, therefor I didn't get the impression that re-used dungeons got on my nerve. Actully, I didn't mind at all. Seen one cave, seen them all. So what? Rain makes everything better.
HoonDing Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 the constant reusing of areas just makes the game feel like a cheap slapdash effort. Particularly because its been so heavily criticized in other games for the past... forever. There weren't that many areas outside Kirkwall to begin with, therefor I didn't get the impression that re-used dungeons got on my nerve. Actully, I didn't mind at all. Seen one cave, seen them all. So what? Did someone from BioWare Social hijack your account? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
entrerix Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) what about the constant re-use of areas INSIDE kirkwall? I mean, for being such a big city, why are only a few hundred square yards of it accessible? Edited March 23, 2011 by entrerix Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Morgoth Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 what about the constant re-use of areas INSIDE kirkwall? I mean, for being such a big city, why are only a few hundred square yards of it accessible? I don't know about you, but I don't like running 30 min across town to get my quest. Rain makes everything better.
RPGmasterBoo Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) what about the constant re-use of areas INSIDE kirkwall? I mean, for being such a big city, why are only a few hundred square yards of it accessible? I don't know about you, but I don't like running 30 min across town to get my quest. We'll set DA3 in a broom cupboard for your convenience. Edited March 23, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Morgoth Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I liked Kirkwall and the districts just how they were - cut out the time waster but still convey some impression of being a place. Rain makes everything better.
Tale Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I can't say it was any smaller than The Strip of New Vegas as a city. It did, however, lack interesting locales within that city. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
GhostofAnakin Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) The actual size of Kirkwall wasn't an issue for me. The way a lot of the "areas" was the same was. Just seemed like lazy design to me. Edited March 23, 2011 by GhostofAnakin "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Morgoth Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Maybe they had to instant art assets, in order to avoid memory issues. I blame the consoles, of course. Rain makes everything better.
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 You never got a complete bird's eye view of Kirkwall, and that bothers me - as of now I still have no idea what the entire city really looks like overall. The map hinted at something epic with enormous stairs and the like. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Raithe Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I pretty much pictures it as one giant slope up.. You have the docks at that low level ..then just winds up through Lowtown then Hightown. Although , yeah, beyond that it's kind of hard to get a full image of it since so much is lacking. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Although I remember to get through it you have to pass through a small canyon with giant statues to get to the Docks (or Gallows?) and that Darktown is built into those cliffs. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Volourn Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 "Carver is your brother, so if he tried to hit on you in his short time, that would be breaking new ground, at least. " Are you really tempting fate? Let's not forget those lovely Imoen 'romance mods'. L0L "We'll set DA3 in a broom cupboard for your convenience." Okay. We may pick on each other, BOO, but this was literally a laugh out loud moment for me. R00fles! "Their excuse is mealy-mouthed and hubristic." Actually, their accuse makes sense. They had to make a choice - add in more content like quests or throw in more 'non reused' areas. They choose to save time reusing areas and concentrate adding in quests and ****. All deisgners make design decisions like this. This is why both BIO, and Obsidian had to cut out entire planets in KOTOR series. And, why BIO chose to have majority of planets in ME1 be just reskinned mountains while in ME2 you end up with less explorable planets and **** but more different ones. Personally, I'm not a fan of the reused areas, and is one of my biggest complaints. But, all the good stuff in the game more than makes up for it. As for Kirkwall, it's one of my favorite RPG cities ever. Up there with the BGs, Athkatlas, Sigils, New Renos, and Tarants. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Enoch Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I pretty much pictures it as one giant slope up.. You have the docks at that low level ..then just winds up through Lowtown then Hightown. Although , yeah, beyond that it's kind of hard to get a full image of it since so much is lacking. Who needs pictures when you have such poetically evocative names as those?
Spider Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 Umm read the GrandHarrier comment:http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-a...-black-emporium They can't possibly be trying it again? As part of EA's "Project $10" goes, this is a respectable reason to buy Dragon Age 2 new. It includes a hidden shop that gives you several decent free items as well as three very useful features; A mirror of transformation that allows you to edit you appearance after the fact, several shops that have useful items such as "Maker's Sigh" that allows you to respec your characters talents, and most importantly the ability to summon a Mabari Warhound to assist you in combat. None of these are critical to the game, but are good incentives to not buy used. What is wrong with that quote? I also think it's a "respectable reason" to buy DA2 new instead of used. The Warhound is awesome.
Volourn Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Yeah, best they make up gibberish fantasy names for them like Kakaka (Athkatla, lol). Sometimes, simplicty is best. not that i mind Kakaka. I like that name. "The Warhound is awesome. " he's only good in taking heat off you as his offense sucks (like 10 damegr per hit, lol). He can't even overwhelm anymore. I really am dissaapointed they took away two of the coolest enemy abilities from DA1 though they got some new ones. Edited March 23, 2011 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
RPGmasterBoo Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Umm read the GrandHarrier comment:http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-a...-black-emporium They can't possibly be trying it again? As part of EA's "Project $10" goes, this is a respectable reason to buy Dragon Age 2 new. It includes a hidden shop that gives you several decent free items as well as three very useful features; A mirror of transformation that allows you to edit you appearance after the fact, several shops that have useful items such as "Maker's Sigh" that allows you to respec your characters talents, and most importantly the ability to summon a Mabari Warhound to assist you in combat. None of these are critical to the game, but are good incentives to not buy used. What is wrong with that quote? I also think it's a "respectable reason" to buy DA2 new instead of used. The Warhound is awesome. The wording doesn't strike you as odd? To me it sounds like a PR piece. Why would a regular user even care to comment if you buy used or not? Other peoples shopping habits are the last thing on my mind when I'm writing a small review. Edited March 23, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
sorophx Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 As for Kirkwall, it's one of my favorite RPG cities ever. this says it all Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe.
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