Question about Obsidian

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm interested how it came to be that Obsidian primarily does sequels to successful games of other studios and why they can't/won't/don't persist in doing unique/licensed IP's.

 

You have to admit, its not exactly usual for a company to do sequels by trade.

[sorophx]

that's what a good company should be doing. correcting others' mistakes and rubbing their faces in it

[Labadal]

It is easier to work with existing engines than creating one from scratch?

[Tale]

Lots of companies do sequels. Original IPs often only come out of studios that have significant enough name recognition or self funding. How many studios are stuck doing shooter sequels?

 

Obsidian's lucky in that they seem to be able to do various sequels instead of being stuck to one franchise. Maybe that's due to them being relatively independent. Some publisher owned studios have been doing a sequels to a single franchise for longer than Obsidian has been around.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Tale

[Rosbjerg]

^ that and it's probably more common than we think .. I know Treyarch has done World at War and now Black Ops (in the CoD series) while Activison does the Modern War (I know that's not a true sequal but still).

 

And sometimes trends develop, Beth probably noticed how Obz handled KOTOR 2 and NWN 2 and thought they were up for the job.

[Enoch]

Original properties are riskier. When publishers have an appetite to put money towards original properties, they are more likely to trust in-house developers.

 

However, as pretty much the only publisher-independent developer with a track record of making western RPGs, they are the among the first people who get called when a publisher has an established property that it wants made into an RPG, but doesn't happen to have sufficient in-house capacity to do so. E.g., "We want to do more to monetize our current rights on the Star Wars/D&D/Aliens/Fallout/Dungeon Siege IP, but we don't have the manpower to make another game right now. Call that Urkel-heart guy and see if he has a pitch to make."

[sorophx]

Call that Urkel-heart guy and see if he has a pitch to make."

[Malcador]

Hm. I dunno about just doing sequels. It worked for Infinity Ward. It's a bit disappointing to see them do this with the talent, but you've got to start somewhere and any revenue is good. Their only original game so far was pretty good, so things are on the up!

[Volourn]

"I'm interested how it came to be that Obsidian primarily does sequels to successful games of other studios and why they can't/won't/don't persist in doing unique/licensed IP's.

 

You have to admit, its not exactly usual for a company to do sequels by trade."

 

They tried with AP,a nd it basically failed. Not to mentioned the non released Aliens RPG. Meanwhilke, their games based on sequels to successful games have done well. Even the much maligned KOTOR2 had solid sale figures, and there's a chance that LV will end end up selling more than any game BIO has released.

 

Why make 'original' games when you can run a successful business doing otherwise?

 

 

 

"that's what a good company should be doing. correcting others' mistakes and rubbing their faces in it"

 

That's one biased viewpoint. Another biased viewpoint is they're leeching of others' names and success to get 'easy' money. It's easy to sell a NWN2 than an AP1 since people are gonna see it as a sequel to a BIO game. Same with FO: LV which is tied with Bethesda. The game that needed to be sold based on Obsidian's name - AP - didn't do so well. L0LZ

 

 

Me? I don't care which route Obsidian takes as long as they make good games. NWN2, MOTB, and KOTOR2 were good games. SOZ, and AP were not.

 

Case closed.

[sorophx]

Case closed.

thank you, detective, now I'll be able to sleep at night

Edited November 8, 2010 by sorophx

[Labadal]

AP was/ is still my GOTY.

Case re- opened.

[Volourn]

Your opinion (and mine) are absolutely irrelevant in determining success and failure for a game. AP was a failure. Sega themselves said so and they have absoluitely no reason to want that to be the case since they published it.

 

Case closed.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Original properties are riskier. When publishers have an appetite to put money towards original properties, they are more likely to trust in-house developers.

 

However, as pretty much the only publisher-independent developer with a track record of making western RPGs, they are the among the first people who get called when a publisher has an established property that it wants made into an RPG, but doesn't happen to have sufficient in-house capacity to do so. E.g., "We want to do more to monetize our current rights on the Star Wars/D&D/Aliens/Fallout/Dungeon Siege IP, but we don't have the manpower to make another game right now. Call that Urkel-heart guy and see if he has a pitch to make."

 

Yeah, but that's kinda sad in a way.

 

I mean, Obs people aren't some bozos picked up from a local pub, they have a serious rep from Interplay/Black Isle.

 

I can't believe they never get an offer to do an original RPG from an existing license, like, say White Wolf's World of Darkness or DnD or whatever.

 

When I think of Chris Avellone as the man behind PS:T I find it hard to believe he either needs or wants to work with leftovers.

 

 

Also, here is another Obs specific questions. How come there's a trend with each game being shipped with so many bugs. What's up with that?

Edited November 8, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Cantousent]

I'm sure that Obsidian is better off with sequels for established franchises, but I would wager that they're still interested in creating a viable franchise of their own. I guess it just depends on whether they want to play it safe forever or take another chance on something new. I never played Alpha Protocol. Over the past few years I've stopped purchasing games as often and so I'm choosier about those titles I do buy. No Alpha Protocol or Mass Effect, for example. I've more or less gone away from rpgs to fpses, but New Vegas has whetted my appetite for good RPGs.

 

I'm sure I'll pick up the DAO sequel as well as Dungeon Seige 3, but I hope that Obsidian develops a new RPG setting.

[Hurlshort]

I'm very happy with the route Obsidian has taken. It is a smart business plan, they always have a few active projects and they are getting funding from the IP holder. Troika had a similar talent make up, but they made bad business choices and look what happened.

 

I imagine with NV being so successful, we will see them take a crack at another new IP.

[Labadal]

Your opinion (and mine) are absolutely irrelevant in determining success and failure for a game. AP was a failure. Sega themselves said so and they have absoluitely no reason to want that to be the case since they published it.

 

Case closed.

 

SEGA as a whole has been a failure the last few years. Didn't Alpha Protocol sell 700K? Seems ok to me. Considering the game got delayed over and over again.

[Volourn]

"I mean, Obs people aren't some bozos picked up from a local pub, they have a serious rep from Interplay/Black Isle."

 

And, that's why they keep getting high profile 'slam dunk' contracts like KOTOR2, NWN, LV, and even DS3.

 

 

 

"Didn't Alpha Protocol sell 700K?"

 

Doubtful, and even if it did it obviously wasn't enough.

 

 

" Seems ok to me. "

 

Again, your opinion on the matters is irrleevant. If the publisher says 700k sales isn't good enough it likely means the game didn't sell enough to make the development worthwhile hence a failure.

 

 

"Considering the game got delayed over and over again."

 

That has nothing to do with it. Penty of games get delayed yet are successful. Very few games, btw, get released exactly when they're first announced to be released. *shruG* AP is ntohing special in that regard.

[Cogar66]

"I mean, Obs people aren't some bozos picked up from a local pub, they have a serious rep from Interplay/Black Isle."

 

And, that's why they keep getting high profile 'slam dunk' contracts like KOTOR2, NWN, LV, and even DS3.

 

 

 

"Didn't Alpha Protocol sell 700K?"

 

Doubtful, and even if it did it obviously wasn't enough.

 

 

" Seems ok to me. "

 

Again, your opinion on the matters is irrleevant. If the publisher says 700k sales isn't good enough it likely means the game didn't sell enough to make the development worthwhile hence a failure.

 

 

"Considering the game got delayed over and over again."

 

That has nothing to do with it. Penty of games get delayed yet are successful. Very few games, btw, get released exactly when they're first announced to be released. *shruG* AP is ntohing special in that regard.

 

Volourn. I just logged in to tell you to stop being such a ****ing ****.

[Tigranes]

From what I remember the 700k figure was accurate as of a month or two ago. It will likely creep over a million at some point, but then publishers hardly care about sales after the first few weeks.

 

I'm waiting for Volourn to one day realise the irony in dedicating thousands of posts to declaring how people's opinions don't matter, only the publisher's, thereby actually helping spread the publishers' interpretation of things, but it just wouldn't be fun without it, I guess.

[Volourn]

"I'm waiting for Volourn to one day realise the irony in dedicating thousands of posts to declaring how people's opinions don't matter, only the publisher's, thereby actually helping spread the publishers' interpretation of things, but it just wouldn't be fun without it, I guess."

 

Publishers fund the games, and if they feel a game is a fialure it means they likely aren't going to be as interested in publishing games like it or from same company again.

 

In a similar situation, a certain movie called Superman returns made about $200M at the box offiice and by everyone with knowledge of how movies work, it was considered a flop. That's right.a $200M movie was considered a flop. Obviously, it did not make enough money to be considered worthwhile. Now, a new Superman is being in the process of getting picked up because SR wasn't worth sequels as planned.

 

The 'fact' (if it's even true since no hard numbers have been delivered by those who actually know) that AP has sold 700k+ (or even a mil) is irrelevant if it's not enough to cover Sega's costs of paying for its development.

 

My question is why would Sega lie about AP being a flop? They get nothing out of it. Heck, they even went out of their way to spin the cancellation of Aliens RPG to sapre Obsidian's feelings so why would they diss their own product. For ****s and giggles? Come on.

 

It should be noted that BIO's own JE has sold between 1.5M-2M copies yet is considered BIO's wussy step childbecause it didn't come close to the 2.5-3M their other games tend to sell.

 

There is no irony. Because, i'm fully aware of the big picture that opinion doesn't matter either. Our opinions only matter to us, but it certainly doesn't matter to the Segas, Obsidians, Biowares, Bethesdas, Troika,s Ataris, Electronic Arts, and Blizzards of the world who look at the big picture not what us net board geekies think.

[Tigranes]

I told you.

 

However, since a civil post deserves a civil response; Volo, I get all that. And quite a few times I agree with your reality checks. My point is, generally, you are so concerned about telling people how things work in the 'real world', that instead of just balancing things out or being pragmatic, you end up being an advocate of the way things are.

 

Without wasting a thousand words on this, it's like there's a war on and people are dying, and some people are complaining that it shouldn't be this way, and you come along and say look it's war, people are gonna die. Which is fine. But then you go so far with it and make so much effort to stress how lamenting the deaths is completely pointless, that after a while, effectively, you end up being an advocate of war killing people.

 

We all know how it works with publishers and profit and target sales. Doesn't mean we should say "oh good on ya SEGA for calling Alpha Protocol a failure" or whatever. Especially since its' not just daydreaming - brands and market perception drives investment. Maybe not as much as cold hard cash, but it certainly is a factor.

[Slowtrain]

Don't think I've ever seen the words Volourn and pragmatic used together before.

[Bos_hybrid]

I'm interested how it came to be that Obsidian primarily does sequels to successful games of other studios and why they can't/won't/don't persist in doing unique/licensed IP's.

 

You have to admit, its not exactly usual for a company to do sequels by trade.

 

Felt like stirring the pot?

 

Obs got NWN & Kotor sequels because they where the only other game company that makes story driven rpgs. Honestly name another company that makes story driven RPGs beside Bio and Obs. That's not to say Obs wouldn't of got them had there been other companies, it's just Lucasart and Atari didn't have many choices. As to why they would accept, why wouldn't they? Most devs would love to get a start up with two successful franchises. As for NV, I think it was quite natural for Beth to look to Obs and a no brainer for Obs to accept. DS3 though, that was out of left field.

 

Also, here is another Obs specific questions. How come there's a trend with each game being shipped with so many bugs. What's up with that?

 

People love to blame the Q&A teams for this, but I would bet my house on most devs knowing about the bugs before the game ships. In any case an easy explanation would be Obs trying to do too much, not saying enough is enough early enough.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Bos_hybrid

[Volourn]

"Obs got NWN & Kotor sequels because they where the only other game company that makes story driven rpgs."

 

Nah. How could that be when before thsoe two games Obsidian had made zero games. They weren't known at all. They got NWN2 and KOTOR2 because of Urquhart's connections to BIO, and BIO making a push for Atari/LA to hire them after BIO turned down the sequels.

 

 

"Without wasting a thousand words on this, it's like there's a war on and people are dying, and some people are complaining that it shouldn't be this way, and you come along and say look it's war, people are gonna die. Which is fine. But then you go so far with it and make so much effort to stress how lamenting the deaths is completely pointless, that after a while, effectively, you end up being an advocate of war killing people.

"

 

Nah. It's not like that at all.

 

Nor am I an advocate of the pragmantic view. If I were I'd be pro Bethesda consideirng how successful they are yet I loathe their games. Andm, while I'm often accused of being a BIO 'fanboy', I don't go out buying all their games (no sonic rpg for me).

 

I believe people should buy games they think they'll enjoy. No hidden agenda, no pragamitism nor should we care about what's best for companies but nor should we fool ourselves into thinking our personal opinions mean squat.

[Thorton_AP]

I mean, Obs people aren't some bozos picked up from a local pub, they have a serious rep from Interplay/Black Isle.

 

I can't believe they never get an offer to do an original RPG from an existing license, like, say White Wolf's World of Darkness or DnD or whatever.

 

When I think of Chris Avellone as the man behind PS:T I find it hard to believe he either needs or wants to work with leftovers.

 

The serious rep they have from Interplay/Black Isle is from fans of their games. The only Black Isle games that were particularly good sellers were the ones made by BioWare. I don't recall either of the Fallouts, Icewind Dales, PST, or Lionheart being games that flew off the shelves.

 

 

The rep they had is scored with us. Not with people that want to make money.