AAAHHHHHHH

[Calax]

The starforce thing is just plain wrong too. Sure, it might trash your optical drive but there's never been any indication of it monitoring what you were doing and reporting back to the mothership, let alone any other of the (far more popular than Starforce) disk check based systems- they never ask for internet connectivity.

 

Activation based systems are a bit closer, but even then none of them require an always running client.

 

And again the question is begged: Is Steam so good everyone should be forced to use it?

Well, Honestly I don't have a problem with steam scanning my system given that Warcraft has something that does that already.

[Hurlshort]

You only need to be online once for this whole shebang. Otherwise, this is what the CEO said:

 

Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works."[86]

 

In addition to Gabe Newell's comments, Steam's Support Staff have confirmed that "in the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network, measures are in place to ensure that all users will have access to their Steam games."

[Purkake]

The decision to use Steam is the publisher's (Bethesda and Namco Bandai in this case) as is the decision to make it Steam-only. This has nothing to do with the the goodness or indeed badness of Steam. If you want to play the game either install Steam or play it on a console, this isn't up for a popularity vote.

[Hassat Hunter]

But if you want to play it on your PC (because you got no consoles) WITHOUT Steam, you're screwed.

 

Even if you purposedly bought your copy in the store.

[~Di]

But if you want to play it on your PC (because you got no consoles) WITHOUT Steam, you're screwed.

 

Even if you purposedly bought your copy in the store.

 

Apparently so. I'm in the same boat... I've got no consoles, and frankly don't particularly want any. So... the PC games I will buy may be limited in the future. But I'm a big girl. I'll cope.

[Hurlshort]

The decision to use Steam is the publisher's (Bethesda and Namco Bandai in this case) as is the decision to make it Steam-only. This has nothing to do with the the goodness or indeed badness of Steam. If you want to play the game either install Steam or play it on a console, this isn't up for a popularity vote.

 

The decision is also one you can expect more publishers to make. We all know that publishers are concerned with piracy (or second-hand sales, whatever) and have spent money on different DRM schemes. Steamworks is offered for free to publishers and basically handles all authentication and creates a decent barrier against piracy.

 

I'm still confused about the actual complaints against Steam, is it just the fact you have to authenticate it online? Is it just a general complaint about having another piece of software on your PC?

[LadyCrimson]

In terms of ownership, it is again just like a console. What happens if Sony or Microsoft decide to shut down all of their servers? You are going to have trouble playing your game, just like if Steam shuts down. But the likelihood of that happening is super tiny, and if that did happen, there would probably be a quick fix in a matter of hours.

Speaking only for myself, I don't have any consoles, either. Doesn't apply. Despite researching/keeping an eye on them for years and years, I still don't want a console, still don't like playing on consoles.

 

As for understanding...just feels like a personal boundaries thing. If my boundaries are different than person B, I think no amount of explaining is going to make person B think I'm being sensible. *shrug*

[Zoraptor]

Most common list of complaints about Steam:

 

Bad/ slow internet, 'moral' reasons, capped internet (particularly if Steamworks goes bonkers and decides to download the whole thing off Steam rather than install off the DVD), bloatware/ resource use, loss of control over your software, adware/ monitoring, service outages, forced patching, lack of mod compatibility (some titles), bad TOS, inconsistent offline mode, bad updates breaking your entire games catalogue, slow startup of games, monopolistic practices, no value added, it's a big target for phishing/ account hacking, just one more extraneous thing that can go wrong...

 

I don't necessarily agree with all of those personally, though I do to some extent with most.

 

As I've said, it doesn't really bother me as it just saves me money and I always have more games to play than time to play them- if Bethesda had stuck with a disk check I'd buy, as it is I won't, net effect $90 saved.

 

I must admit to some fascination with why so many people like Steam so much they want everyone else to be forced into using it, as it's a bit of an alien concept to me.

 

Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works."[86]

 

In addition to Gabe Newell's comments, Steam's Support Staff have confirmed that "in the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network, measures are in place to ensure that all users will have access to their Steam games."

If Valve were to be bought, or go bankrupt, then Gabe would be in no position to make good on his promise- if it would be legal anyway, they'd probably need permission from publishers for each title too to vary the terms of their contracts. He can say it, he can even mean it, he could not legally make good on it as under those circumstances the call would simply no longer be his to make, it would be the new owner/ receiver's.

 

It's largely irrelevant as there's no prospect of a receiver or new buyer shutting the service down, they'd be far more likely to turn it into a subscription model or data mine as the captive audience is one of Steam's most valuable features, commercially speaking.

[Deraldin]

I'm still confused about the actual complaints against Steam, is it just the fact you have to authenticate it online? Is it just a general complaint about having another piece of software on your PC?

 

In my case, it's about having another piece of software on my PC that is fond of screwing with me. "This game is busy. Please try again later." messages that pop up on a regular basis and refuse to let me start my games when I want to play. Steam itself is also fond of crashing on every system I've ever had for some stupid reason that I've yet to be able to figure out and if Thorton comes in here and makes some crack about "The only common factor being me" I'm going to have to punch him. Yes, part of it is that I don't like someone else having control over my programs. There are enough companies out there that already have their claws in my computer and if I can avoid it, I'd rather not let another one in more than I have to. There is more, but Zoraptor really covered most complaints so I'll leave it at that.

 

Steam isn't a deal killer by itself, but it is a great big check in the "Do not want" column and does reduce the value that I am willing to pay for the product.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Deraldin

[Tigranes]

Actually, for me, it's just a very practical thing. In the end I'm not against Steam because of my 'principles' about DRM, etc.

 

It's just when I run a game through Steam, it's slow, it's annoying, it keeps pushing unnecessary crap in my face, and it gets in the way of my gaming. And when Steam keeps trying to broker deals with games to make them Steam-only, it pisses me off.

 

So obviously, Steam acts as a major deterrent. I'll only buy a Steam game if, despite the annoyances of Steam, the game is still worth it on quality or value. It's not really a 'boycott', it's a natural dislike of Steam emerging from bad experiences with it.

[Gorgon]

I prefer not having to have steam forced on me, but, at least you can stop it from running relatively simply. There are pros, for instance if you are not very organised like me your game disks slowly disappear one by one over the years. I suspect the little people under the stairs. Point being, they can't get into my steam account.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I'm still confused about the actual complaints against Steam, is it just the fact you have to authenticate it online? Is it just a general complaint about having another piece of software on your PC?

 

Even though I use Steam for somethings, I am, in general opposed to it and get non-Steam hardcopies when possible. This is because, frankly, Steam is one of the more restrictive DRM schemes out there - nor is it that great of a product either.

 

[Gizmo]

I still don't get why you would deprive yourself of a game because it runs through Steam, particularly those who claim they are going to buy the console version instead. It is nonsensical because the consoles have been running their own versions of Steam for the last generation. You are signed in as soon as you turn the console on, you launch the game from their OS, and it keeps track of stuff whether you are online or not.

 

Currently I'm running Steam in offline mode. I've launched a few games with no issues. I've tried to disconnect my internet mid-game, I've even started it in offline mode. It has run smoothly the whole time. I'll admit, Steam had its problems with the offline mode originally, but they seem to be a thing of the past.

 

So I don't get it. It seems like Steam DRM is less obstrusive than Starforce and all that last-gen stuff. It is easy to exit out of Steam, and it makes patching games easy (but not required.)

 

In terms of ownership, it is again just like a console. What happens if Sony or Microsoft decide to shut down all of their servers? You are going to have trouble playing your game, just like if Steam shuts down. But the likelihood of that happening is super tiny, and if that did happen, there would probably be a quick fix in a matter of hours.

 

It just seems like a lot of bluster.

I dislike the idea that I pay for the privilege of being allowed to play ~this time, and possibly the next. I'm aware that software (long since) and games are adopting the notion licensed, not owned; and making your use of the game dependent on their say-so. When I look at my library of games, and see just how many favorites are from non-existent companies, I ask myself, what if these were DRM crippled in a similar way... I'd not be able to play what I'd purchased. I recently re-installed Mirrors Edge and had no internet connection at the time ~The DRM practically called me a thief outright, and refused to play unless I was vouched for by their server ~despite having the retail DVD in the local drive. (Mirrors Edge is a great game, but that by itself is enough to not buy another EA game ever again ~which is my intention.)

 

I have used STEAM for titles that I cannot find close by, are trivial whims, or cannot find without some worse DRM infecting it, but in general I avoid STEAM, and buy hard copy discs (or DRM-less installers) whenever I have the option. (Stripped of the options... I'd just as soon quit buying games altogether than migrate to STEAM. I have over a hundred games and I've not seen 15 in the last ten years that really impressed ~so its very rarely worth the hassle.)

Edited July 18, 2010 by Gizmo

[Slowtrain]

Why do you use all the extra punction and other assorted marks in your posts?

 

 

Just curious.

[mkreku]

Could a mod please rename this thread "Drama queens special thread for whining about every non issue in the gaming world"?

[Tigranes]

I could, but then I'd need to be consistent and rename your account to "indiscriminatepartypooper_1".

 

Actually, you and Purkake might need to fight it out over who's number 1.

 

(I love you both )

[Nihilus5078]

I find it strange how these threads can turn from talking about tiny letters at the bottom of the box to random non gaming issues. It's just wierd.

[Gizmo]

Why do you use all the extra punction and other assorted marks in your posts?

 

Just curious.

Me? Force of habit. I type somewhat how I talk (meaning pauses, breath and gestures that are often lost in print).

Some of the usage is not correct English I know, but I'm reasonably consistent; even though I tend to over-use semicolons (and sometimes not appropriately).

Edited July 19, 2010 by Gizmo