RapeLay

[GreasyDogMeat]

From January 07'

A humerous 'review' of Rapelay from somethingawful.com

 

"At a Glance: In the past Hentai games have often catered to casual rape enthusiasts. These are perfectly normal folks like you, me and your next door neighbor who only leaves his apartment to buy canned meat and plastic tarps. I like to think of this audience as the "beer and pretzel" rape gamer. They're interested in a fun "pick up and play" rape game and they don't want to get bogged down in details. Then there are the rape grognards who want a rape simulator to be as realistic as possible. They want it to include accidental pregnancies, crying, abortion, threat of murder, fuel mixture, full elevator control, and pre-rape start-up checks. RapeLay is the grognard's rape simulator. It is the Falcon 4.0 of rape."

 

It should be obvious that this link is for 18+.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/hentai-gam...ews/rapelay.php

Edited April 1, 2010 by GreasyDogMeat

[Gorgon]

This is what they call the 'otherness' of Japan, that everything is so different that we couldn't possibly understand with our inadequate western POV. It's a load of nonsense.

 

One of my old teachers told me that the groping problem with the rowdy weekend crowd was so bad that they had to institute women only train cars. It excites the pervs because it's out in the public. The notion of Japanese women just standing there being paralysed by shame is part of the perv fantasy, it does not correspond in any way with reality.

[Gromnir]

This is what they call the 'otherness' of Japan, that everything is so different that we couldn't possibly understand with our inadequate western POV. It's a load of nonsense.

 

what is it with the strawman in this thread? who said that the Nippon perspective could not be understood by westerners? not Gromnir. we did say that the Japanese pov is different; to apply western standards to Japanese issues leads to inevitable confusion.

 

we does agree that the train-rape scenarios is largely fantasy, as we already observed; however, the number o' reported sexual assault cases per year in Japan does not mesh well with your example. reported sexual assaults is very low when compared to other western nations.

 

another Japanese quirk: official sexual assault statistics is not tracked male v. female. in the west it is pretty much accepted universal that women is far more likely to be victims o' sexual assault. typically, we sees western figures for assaults per 100,000 females. males as victims is counted separate. Japan does not separate. official stats for sexual assaults in Japan COMBINE male and female.

[BicycleOfDeath]

Realistically, I'd rather have people playing out their rape fantasies in video games than actually following through them and victimizing someone in real life.

[MrBrown]

Frankly, I can't see this being any worse than games that depict realistic killing of people. Certainly there will be people to whom such a game will be one driving force that will lead to real acts. But for every such case there will be hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? of people to whom a game will be just an afternoons fun in a normal life. An adult, healthy mind is always able to separate imagination and fantasies from reality.

 

 

As for RapeLay itself, I played it back in 2006 or 2007 when a friend recommended it to me. Why? Well, I watch porn too. And I assume a healthy majority of this forum does too. Japanese have been making porn (and rape) games for a long time, but most of these are text adventure games with pictures; unmoving and 2D. RapeLay, and the creator company Illusion's games in general, tend to be 3D and involve more than clicking next and choosing whether to ejaculate inside or not.

 

Anyway, the "rape simulation" part of the game involves the player moving the mouse in a circular motion, so that character will caress the women to get them excited enough for the sex scene. After it took about 10 minutes of wagging the mouse for the second girl, my wrist got tired and I just downloaded a save game crack from the net to get all the scenes. I swear, in some of Illusion's games, it's harder to get sex than in real life. I suppose some people would get excited from imagining a rape situation, but I doubt anyone enjoyed playing this. As for the sex scenes themselves, they were no different from typical porn scenes. Sure, the women cry and shout "no!", but they do so in just about any kind of japanese pornography. I suppose someone could write their doctorate on the cultural differences of depicting sexuality in pornography, but I think analysis of whether it's more right/realistic/whatever to go "please, no!" or "****! **** me more!" is kinda beyond this forum.

Edited April 1, 2010 by MrBrown

[jaguars4ever]

As for RapeLay itself, I played it back in 2006 or 2007 when a friend recommended it to me. Why? Well, I watch porn too.

Great justification there.

 

That's like saying "I hate blacks. Why? Well, I hate Jews too." Now I understand that in a free society you can buy any media you want no matter how reprehensible it may be (for now), but be under no illusions: To play these, you're either ****ed up in the head (at worst), or two sandwiches short of a picnic (at best).

 

The element of choice remains your prerogative. But don't try and sugar coat your devious activities as being morally acceptable due its alleged pervasiveness.

[Walsingham]

I doubt this is true. I'm sure there is no real such thing as your 'average rapist'.

 

I literally burst out laughing here.

 

Wooooooooooooooo

 

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound, but of mind. A journey without walls, a journey without statistics. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the sign post up ahead, your next stop...The Rape Zone!

 

EDIT: Nearly forgot my point. In the Jigsaw Man, Paul Britton discusses at length what goes into the minds of the 'average' rapist. And yes, they are young, male, and suffer from feelings of powerlessness. But a _KEY_ enabling factor which he dwells on is the use of violent themed pornography. It appeals to the pre-rapist character by salving their power-needs. But in time, and bearing in mind these men often live almost all their lives inside their heads and without contact with women, the logic of the porn takes over.

 

I'm not sure what can be done practically to stop this, but a good show of moral outrage can only be to the good, IMO. These games should not be seen as an ironic subculture, but the last resort of losers. Hopefully then the losers will choose something else to occupy their time in the hopes of actually turning themselves around.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Walsingham

[RPGmasterBoo]

How old are you Walsingham?

[Pidesco]

He is 83.

[Hell Kitty]

japanese entertainment suggests that the Shame Impulse is so strong that victim will remain meek and quiet during her assault.

 

It's a shame that people see some anime or manga and think OMG THAT'S HOW JAPANESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE!!1 This will apparently come as a surprise to some folks, but the way the world works in games and movies and books and whatever, isn't necessarily the way it works in real life. Crazy!

 

Anyway, off-topic for a second, now that Michael Atkinson is gone, Australia is likely to finally get an R+18 rating for games, but apparently something calling itself the Office of the Guardian for Children and Young People is up in arms claiming that this rating will "open the country to a range of games that depict domestic violence, rape, murder and torture." Anything that features explicit sex which would be given a X rating (and in most Australian states you can't buy X-rated material), not R, so we aren't suddenly going to see games like RapeLay on Aussie shelves. I am however, wondering about these domestic violence, murder and torture games you guys have been playing that we Australians have so far been shielded from.

[Gromnir]

japanese entertainment suggests that the Shame Impulse is so strong that victim will remain meek and quiet during her assault.

 

It's a shame that people see some anime or manga and think OMG THAT'S HOW JAPANESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE!!1 This will apparently come as a surprise to some folks, but the way the world works in games and movies and books and whatever, isn't necessarily the way it works in real life. Crazy!

 

 

 

again, in case it is getting lost, Gromnir ain't suggesting that meek women allowing themselves to be getting raped on trains in Japan is normal. the games represent a fantasy scenario that ain't plausible. however, these and other Japanese games depicting rape, incest, and pedophilia is readily available in Nippon. to ignore such entertainment entirely and dismiss as the last resort o' a disturbed fringe element would be a mistake.

 

"Cop Killer," the rap song, garnered a great deal of attention when it were released. now to suggest that the song realistically depicted how all/many young black male Americans were advocating the killing o' police officers would be a ludicrous suggestion. that being said, you would be foolish in the extreme if you completely ignored the significance of such entertainment. the increasing numbers of young black males dying through violence, and a growing element in the black community that saw their relationship with law enforcement as adversarial had a basis in fact.

 

ignore the significance of a culture's entertainment?

 

*chuckle*

[jaguars4ever]

btw, do not get the wrong idea; Gromnir likes Japan and the Japanese people very much. however, our experience in Japan taught us that you must be willing to let go of your western pov when dealing with fundamentally Japanese issues.

This isn't a fundamentally Japanese issue, Grom. This is a universal issue concerning the decency of mankind. Human depravity is still depravity be it Nippon or Timbuktu. Condoning acceptance of rape and torture will only further desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery. For good or for ill, this is what happened to homosexuality. Now, I'm in no way saying that homosexuality is immoral, but, it was considered to be such yesteryear. But given the mainstream acceptance it acquired by the mass media over the last generation, it became socially kosher. Rape and torture, however, are not like homosexuality. Rape and torture are inherently vile and affront to all decency. However, the desensitizing effect of mass media makes no such distinction, and it will eventually create indifference if not tacit assent to these intolerant practices. By your own admission, it's already happened in Japan. Unfortunately, tolerance of intolerance is no tolerance at all.

Edited April 1, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[RPGmasterBoo]

btw, do not get the wrong idea; Gromnir likes Japan and the Japanese people very much. however, our experience in Japan taught us that you must be willing to let go of your western pov when dealing with fundamentally Japanese issues.

This isn't a fundamentally Japanese issue, Grom. This is a universal issue concerning the decency of mankind. Human depravity is still depravity be it Nippon or Timbuktu. Condoning acceptance of rape and torture will only further desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery. For good or for ill, this is what happened to homosexuality. Now, I'm in no way saying that homosexuality is immoral, but, it was considered to be such yesteryear. But given the mainstream acceptance it acquired by the mass media over the last generation, it became socially kosher. Rape and torture, however, are not like homosexuality. Rape and torture and inherently vile and affront to all decency. However, the desensitizing effect of mass media makes no such distinction, and it will eventually create indifference if not tacit assent to these intolerant practices. By your own admission, it's already happened in Japan. Unfortunately, tolerance of intolerance is no tolerance at all.

 

Well said, which is why I was for banning this sort of stuff in the first place - working on a presumption that it easier to cultivate and feed the worse part of human nature in an individual than the virtues, at some point you simply have to draw the line.

Rapelay wont lead any sane person to rape of course, but allowing this sort of content to flourish will at some point in time make it acceptable.

 

All sorts of stuff has and always will go on behind closed doors, in private circles etc. but that doesn't mean everyone's little perversion should creep into the norm under the very vague notion of tolerance.

[Amentep]

btw, do not get the wrong idea; Gromnir likes Japan and the Japanese people very much. however, our experience in Japan taught us that you must be willing to let go of your western pov when dealing with fundamentally Japanese issues.

This isn't a fundamentally Japanese issue, Grom. This is a universal issue concerning the decency of mankind. Human depravity is still depravity be it Nippon or Timbuktu. Condoning acceptance of rape and torture will only further desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery. For good or for ill, this is what happened to homosexuality. Now, I'm in no way saying that homosexuality is immoral, but, it was considered to be such yesteryear. But given the mainstream acceptance it acquired by the mass media over the last generation, it became socially kosher. Rape and torture, however, are not like homosexuality. Rape and torture are inherently vile and affront to all decency. However, the desensitizing effect of mass media makes no such distinction, and it will eventually create indifference if not tacit assent to these intolerant practices. By your own admission, it's already happened in Japan. Unfortunately, tolerance of intolerance is no tolerance at all.

 

I may be wrong, but are you comparing societies growing acceptance of relationships between consenting individuals as a sign that society will accept nonconsentual relationships?

 

I can't tell, but are you also arguing that some acts in video games will "desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery" but not others? Because if you're going to argue that "rape and torture" are desensitizing, then surely the same argument applies to any game with violence in it as well (which pretty much rules out any game that has physical conflict between entities).

 

Or am I missing something?

Edited April 1, 2010 by Amentep

[jaguars4ever]

btw, do not get the wrong idea; Gromnir likes Japan and the Japanese people very much. however, our experience in Japan taught us that you must be willing to let go of your western pov when dealing with fundamentally Japanese issues.

This isn't a fundamentally Japanese issue, Grom. This is a universal issue concerning the decency of mankind. Human depravity is still depravity be it Nippon or Timbuktu. Condoning acceptance of rape and torture will only further desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery. For good or for ill, this is what happened to homosexuality. Now, I'm in no way saying that homosexuality is immoral, but, it was considered to be such yesteryear. But given the mainstream acceptance it acquired by the mass media over the last generation, it became socially kosher. Rape and torture, however, are not like homosexuality. Rape and torture are inherently vile and affront to all decency. However, the desensitizing effect of mass media makes no such distinction, and it will eventually create indifference if not tacit assent to these intolerant practices. By your own admission, it's already happened in Japan. Unfortunately, tolerance of intolerance is no tolerance at all.

 

I may be wrong, but are you comparing societies growing acceptance of relationships between consenting individuals as a sign that society will accept nonconsentual relationships?

 

I can't tell, but are you also arguing that some acts in video games will "desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery" but not others? Because if you're going to argue that "rape and torture" are desensitizing, then surely the same argument applies to any game with violence in it as well (which pretty much rules out any game that has physical conflict between entities).

 

Or am I missing something?

You're right Amentep, in that if you take that principle to its logical extreme it could, in theory, rule out a great many things. But that's in theory. In reality, violence in an of itself is not comparable to rape or torture. Violence may be a part of self-defense. Violence may be part of justice. Violence is always part of war. But these things are subject to justification. They can, a great many times, have a moral leg to stand on. Rape, torture, and pedophilia is without justification, and that's what makes it intrinsically debase. As legal scholars call it, it's the distiction between a malum in se (wrong because it's inherent wrong), versus a malum prohibitum (wrong because the law says so). This is exacerbated by the fact that most of us are either indifferent to or enthusiastic of gratuitously violent media, and so corrective action would likely be futile. The cat's already out of the bag and the desensitization has already taken place.

 

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia. Hence, the current public outrage. We still hold some things sacred it seems. But if we continue down the path Japan have walked, then it won't be long before there's hentai on Cartoon Network or rape games on the shelves of Gamestop.

Edited April 1, 2010 by jaguars4ever

[Calax]

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia.

 

And yet we'll still play it for laughs if it's a guy being raped.

[jaguars4ever]

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia.

 

And yet we'll still play it for laughs if it's a guy being raped.

Hey, it's not rape if you enjoy it, right?

[Mamoulian War]

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia.

 

 

If the society is judged how deeply it have sunked by the games it produces, than with the games like GTA or Carmageddon we are deeper in **** than Japanese ever was...

[HoonDing]

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia.

 

And yet we'll still play it for laughs if it's a guy being raped.

[Gfted1]

(and in most Australian states you can't buy X-rated material)

 

Huh, I had no idea it was so strict down under. Porn is available everywhere here. Theres even an entire DVD rack of porn at the local liquor store I stop at every Friday on my way home.

[Volourn]

"Certainly there will be people to whom such a game will be one driving force that will lead to real acts."

 

Nonsense. No game, movie, or another silly thing has driven people to do anything. You sound like those anti D&D nutters.

 

 

"Paul Britton discusses at length what goes into the minds of the 'average' rapist. And yes, they are young, male, and suffer from feelings of powerlessness. But a _KEY_ enabling factor which he dwells on is the use of violent themed pornography. It appeals to the pre-rapist character by salving their power-needs. But in time, and bearing in mind these men often live almost all their lives inside their heads and without contact with women, the logic of the porn takes over."

 

He's wrong. Countless studies, and theories show otherwise. Heck, other links in this thread show your theory to be in error. The bottom line there is no surefire way to pin point the 'average rapist'. It's dangerous to suggest otherwise.

 

Again, rape has existed FOREVER. And, isn't the domain of one specifc group. Embarrassing to suggst otherwise.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Volourn

[RPGmasterBoo]

btw, do not get the wrong idea; Gromnir likes Japan and the Japanese people very much. however, our experience in Japan taught us that you must be willing to let go of your western pov when dealing with fundamentally Japanese issues.

This isn't a fundamentally Japanese issue, Grom. This is a universal issue concerning the decency of mankind. Human depravity is still depravity be it Nippon or Timbuktu. Condoning acceptance of rape and torture will only further desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery. For good or for ill, this is what happened to homosexuality. Now, I'm in no way saying that homosexuality is immoral, but, it was considered to be such yesteryear. But given the mainstream acceptance it acquired by the mass media over the last generation, it became socially kosher. Rape and torture, however, are not like homosexuality. Rape and torture are inherently vile and affront to all decency. However, the desensitizing effect of mass media makes no such distinction, and it will eventually create indifference if not tacit assent to these intolerant practices. By your own admission, it's already happened in Japan. Unfortunately, tolerance of intolerance is no tolerance at all.

 

I may be wrong, but are you comparing societies growing acceptance of relationships between consenting individuals as a sign that society will accept nonconsentual relationships?

 

I can't tell, but are you also arguing that some acts in video games will "desensitize our inhibitions against debauchery" but not others? Because if you're going to argue that "rape and torture" are desensitizing, then surely the same argument applies to any game with violence in it as well (which pretty much rules out any game that has physical conflict between entities).

 

Or am I missing something?

You're right Amentep, in that if you take that principle to its logical extreme it could, in theory, rule out a great many things. But that's in theory. In reality, violence in an of itself is not comparable to rape or torture. Violence may be a part of self-defense. Violence may be part of justice. Violence is always part of war. But these things are subject to justification. They can, a great many times, have a moral leg to stand on. Rape, torture, and pedophilia is without justification, and that's what makes it intrinsically debase. As legal scholars call it, it's the distiction between a malum in se (wrong because it's inherent wrong), versus a malum prohibitum (wrong because the law says so). This is exacerbated by the fact that most of us are either indifferent to or enthusiastic of gratuitously violent media, and so corrective action would likely be futile. The cat's already out of the bag and the desensitization has already taken place.

 

But as RPGmasterBoo eloquently said, "at some point you simply have to draw the line." Thankfully, American and European society hasn't sunk (yet) to those depths of nonchalance with respect to rape, torture, & pedophilia. Hence, the current public outrage. We still hold some things sacred it seems. But if we continue down the path Japan have walked, then it won't be long before there's hentai on Cartoon Network or rape games on the shelves of Gamestop.

 

The fact is I've seen such things happen. I'm on my final year at my university and I keep a close eye on what happens on the first year and with local high school kids. Things that were unimaginable only 5 years ago when I was in high school are commonplace now. It was say unthinkable to record porn vids on your cellphone with your gf and show them around to your classmates, extremely rare that people would bang like rabbits in their first year (15year olds mind you) with multiple partners being a thing of the norm. Smoking weed and ritual drunkenness (drinking until you collapse) were frowned upon, and only done by dropouts. Junkies were cretins to be laughed at and occasionally beat up. Now a friend tells me that on the uni trip to Paris his group spent (21-22yr olds) most of their time in hotel rooms high and drunk, or screwing around. The occasional fistfight were more or less the worst violence you could expect in a school yard. Now there's a stabbing almost every day, most of the time done with intent to kill.

 

The economical situation is not really any better or worse than when I was a kid, so the only thing I can deduce is that a shift in thinking has happened where violence, drinking yourself silly and casual sex have been spread from the "unsavory elements" and become the norm.

 

I wont even mention what the older generations are remarking about us and from what I see its pretty much correct.

[Orogun01]

Commentators some times stress the emasculation of the Japanese man following the humiliation of WW2, or more to the point the empowerment of the Japanese woman to explain away the extreme end of the manga offerings. Rape is about power they say, and these cases constitute a rather pathetic attempt to reclaim it.

Considering that during WW2 200,000 women average, were forced into sexual slavery among the Japanese occupied territories and that the number of rapes that went unaccounted; I doubt that the problem stems from WW2. Or the fact that the samurai were somewhat notorious for rapes; alas this was after they turned to thieving as a result of the end of the Sengoku. Nor that the first "tentacle" work was "The fisherman's wife" and it was done when Tokyo was still Edo; commentators can dress it up as they like but methinks Japanese are just weird.

[Gfted1]

...

Edited April 1, 2010 by Gfted1

[Amentep]

The fact is I've seen such things happen. I'm on my final year at my university and I keep a close eye on what happens on the first year and with local high school kids. Things that were unimaginable only 5 years ago when I was in high school are commonplace now. It was say unthinkable to record porn vids on your cellphone with your gf and show them around to your classmates, extremely rare that people would bang like rabbits in their first year (15year olds mind you) with multiple partners being a thing of the norm. Smoking weed and ritual drunkenness (drinking until you collapse) were frowned upon, and only done by dropouts. Junkies were cretins to be laughed at and occasionally beat up. Now a friend tells me that on the uni trip to Paris his group spent (21-22yr olds) most of their time in hotel rooms high and drunk, or screwing around. The occasional fistfight were more or less the worst violence you could expect in a school yard. Now there's a stabbing almost every day, most of the time done with intent to kill.

 

The economical situation is not really any better or worse than when I was a kid, so the only thing I can deduce is that a shift in thinking has happened where violence, drinking yourself silly and casual sex have been spread from the "unsavory elements" and become the norm.

 

I wont even mention what the older generations are remarking about us and from what I see its pretty much correct.

 

Eh...your description of local High School life sounds like my High School...in the mid 1980s.

 

Well except the cellphones, those were unweildy and couldn't film jack.