What are you playing now?

[Pope]

nwn2 oc

 

end of chapter 2 trying to enter the haven

can't light the last brazier coz there are no more bloody fire elementals

I had the same issue. Don't remember how I fixed it but I know I did. Probably by messing a bit with the console. Google it, that's how I found it iirc.

[vault_overseer]

Finished first disk of FFXIII. I REALLY like the combat system. It really pays off setting up custom paradigm decks and timing shifts. Music is really good and i'm glad it's not a variation of standard FF music. Characters are pretty annoying and the story drags on veeerrryyyy slowly. But for the first time that I'm playing FF, I'm actually enjoying combat and not dreading yet another borefest grindfight.

 

BTW, my fav. jrpg(not that I played that many) is Legend of Dragoon. It would be really nice to see it on the current gen consoles.

[Morgoth]

I ordered Left 4 Dead 2. I'm also picking up DA Awakening tomorrow.

 

That should occupy me for a whole 2 days!

[Oner]

SC II Beta.

Wow, I suck.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Yep. Anyone playing on Blizzard's servers will get that idea.

 

The fact is that they're swamped with pro players and its really hard to get started.

[RPGmasterBoo]

SC II Beta.

Wow, I suck.

 

Give me your name and identifier so I can add you.

[HoonDing]

Started another run of Divinity 2 with an unarmed warrior, just for laughs.

 

I'll also be replaying Drakensang 2 with an Elven fighter, after the patch is released.

[Oner]

Yep. Anyone playing on Blizzard's servers will get that idea.

 

The fact is that they're swamped with pro players and its really hard to get started.

I was still playing practice matches when I made that post. I don't think pros do that. I just suck.

 

SC II Beta.

Wow, I suck.

 

Give me your name and identifier so I can add you.

Oner.thelazyone

 

You know, your posts not showing up as an Unread Posts mark is kinda...problematic.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Oner

[Volourn]

"That's one of the reasons i love FF franchise so much, it's so much different from average western RPG cliche where you are the only one who can save the universe..."

 

What's hilarious about your comment is that the FF series follows that cliche to a tee almost uniformly. L0LZ

[RPGmasterBoo]

Yep. Anyone playing on Blizzard's servers will get that idea.

 

The fact is that they're swamped with pro players and its really hard to get started.

I was still playing practice matches when I made that post. I don't think pros do that. I just suck.

 

SC II Beta.

Wow, I suck.

 

Give me your name and identifier so I can add you.

Oner.thelazyone

 

You know, your posts not showing up as an Unread Posts mark is kinda...problematic.

 

I'm online now, I'll invite you into a game periodically.

 

We'll play an intro game so you can get the benefit of playing around with various units and their counters.

[Calax]

"That's one of the reasons i love FF franchise so much, it's so much different from average western RPG cliche where you are the only one who can save the universe..."

 

What's hilarious about your comment is that the FF series follows that cliche to a tee almost uniformly. L0LZ

Really? The protagonists in VII, VIII, X, and XIII aren't exactly the "chosen one" or have "a special destiny" that ONLY THEY can pull off. In VII Cloud has the backstory connection to the antagonist, but that doesn't mean that he is the only one who can possibly beat the creatures coming at him and his party. In VIII you're kind of a victim of happenstance, in X any summoner could have done what the main protagonists did, and in XIII the characters are hardly unique in their abilities.

 

Unlike, say, Baldurs Gate II where you're the son of bhaal, or Planetscape where you're an immortal and the only one of your kind, JE where you're the last of the only crew that can restore the world, ME where you're the first and only guy to even see the threat coming and only because you're the one who got really odd visions in his head...

 

Are they special in terms of what ends up happening and the consequences? Yes, but in JRPGs you usually aren't that special at the beginning of your game (where most western RPG's have your character somehow having that unique thing that makes them different).

[Mamoulian War]

Calax, i couldn't say it better

 

+1

[Calax]

Just finished Project Origin and it's expansion again... And I reiterate my previous statements (from a year ago) Origin is a passable shooter, the horror is gone. Reborn? HOLY CHRIST LITTLE GIRL IN RED DRESS JUST CHUCKED A CAR AT ME!

 

Part of me hopes that Monolith recognized the misstep and (assuming they make another game) comes back with a more fearful series of events. Of course Monolith seems to have a wacky job with Sequels (Condemned 2 also kinda went bonkers).

[Amentep]

"That's one of the reasons i love FF franchise so much, it's so much different from average western RPG cliche where you are the only one who can save the universe..."

 

What's hilarious about your comment is that the FF series follows that cliche to a tee almost uniformly. L0LZ

Really? The protagonists in VII, VIII, X, and XIII aren't exactly the "chosen one" or have "a special destiny" that ONLY THEY can pull off. In VII Cloud has the backstory connection to the antagonist, but that doesn't mean that he is the only one who can possibly beat the creatures coming at him and his party. In VIII you're kind of a victim of happenstance, in X any summoner could have done what the main protagonists did, and in XIII the characters are hardly unique in their abilities.

 

Unlike, say, Baldurs Gate II where you're the son of bhaal, or Planetscape where you're an immortal and the only one of your kind, JE where you're the last of the only crew that can restore the world, ME where you're the first and only guy to even see the threat coming and only because you're the one who got really odd visions in his head...

 

Are they special in terms of what ends up happening and the consequences? Yes, but in JRPGs you usually aren't that special at the beginning of your game (where most western RPG's have your character somehow having that unique thing that makes them different).

 

I've only played the first 11 main series FF games, but I'd argue that 8 of them - FFI, FFIII, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, FFX-2 - follow a Chosen One motif. Note that for me a "Chosen One" motif is built around the idea that some external force "anoints" the hero or propels them into action. This can be internal by birth (the Bhaal-Spawn in BG or Terra in FFVI, the protaganist of JE, the shard bearer in NWN2) or external (the protaganists in FFIII being granted powers by the Crystal of Light or Sheppard being the one to use the Prothean Beacon, the protaganist in KotOR2 surviving being cut from the force, Sephrioth messing with Cloud's mind and body, Ultimicia arranging a lot of the events around the orphans and Edea).

 

Accidental propulsion into the plot (the IWD protaganists happen to be the survivors of the group traveling to the beseiged town, Zidane getting involved in the events in FFIX) wouldn't count.

 

FFI - your characters are the warriors of light, bearing 4 special orb (Chosen One)

FFII - Your characters just happen to survive an attack; go on to defeat the villain

FFIII - your characters are granted special powers by the Crystal of Light and the power to restore balance in the world (Chosen One)

FFIV - Cecil and Kain are the only survivors of a failed attempt to protect the water crystal

FFV - Group is charged by the shattered Wind Crystal with protecting the other crystals (Chosen One)

FFVI - Terra is a half-esper and her being used by the Emerorer is the begining of the resistance against the Empire (Chosen One)

FFVII - Cloud is given memories of Zack and zenova cells by Sephiroth, making him uniquely suited to tracking Sephiroth (Chosen One)

FFVIII - All of the characters grew up in an orphanage run by the current host of the Sorceress Ultimicia (Chosen One)

FFIX - Characters get coincidentally involved in main plot

FFX - Tidus and his dad Jecht are actually summoned entities from a dreamland version of Zanarkand that Sin is actually protecting. (Chosen One)

FFX-2 - Yuna's path is tied heavily into the events from the previous game (Chosen One)

[Calax]

Amentep, the thing is, in most of those it wasn't an (as you put it) internal force. The external force you cite could have picked any bum in the street to do the job, while the Western games are with one or two exceptions, the exact opposite in that it's always some sort of force out of their control completely that compels them to go on the quest, or singles them out so that if they didn't go on the quest they'd live a life of simply fending off the bad guys.

 

And I'd personally argue that pardoning the background connection, the overall saving the world arc could have been done by any SeeD candidate, same with X. Sure the main character is basically a ghost but that doesn't mean that those events were only possible specifically BECAUSE he was a ghost (I think, haven't played the game for a long time).

[Orogun01]

Amentep, the thing is, in most of those it wasn't an (as you put it) internal force. The external force you cite could have picked any bum in the street to do the job, while the Western games are with one or two exceptions, the exact opposite in that it's always some sort of force out of their control completely that compels them to go on the quest, or singles them out so that if they didn't go on the quest they'd live a life of simply fending off the bad guys.

 

And I'd personally argue that pardoning the background connection, the overall saving the world arc could have been done by any SeeD candidate, same with X. Sure the main character is basically a ghost but that doesn't mean that those events were only possible specifically BECAUSE he was a ghost (I think, haven't played the game for a long time).

You argue a difference in motivation not on their character; both genres follow the Chosen One motif. Although FF is one of the franchises where it least explicit since it usually focuses on a motley crew of unique characters fighting some greater evil and an effeminate villain, and that's the plot of every game on the series

I would argue that the Chosen One is more present on JRPGs:

Breath of Fire series

Star Ocean series

The legend of Gaia and the rest of games vaguely related to it

 

These are just a few.

 

In all these games the main character has the same trait: a hidden power that comes to shine later on the game and makes him vital to defeat the evil terrorizing the land. Whether his motives are internal or external does not change this fact.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Orogun01

[HoonDing]

In the new Drakensang game the PC is not a chosen one, but a random greenhorn that tags along with the group of real heroes, who even save the life of the greenhorn in the beginning of the game. I like that.

 

Even in the first Drakensang game, one was not a chosen one, but again some random schmuck that happened to be a friend of a retired hero.

[Hurlshort]

I'd like a new PC game, preferably a decent sandbox RPG. I'm torn between picking up Risen, Drakensang, or Two Worlds.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'd like a new PC game, preferably a decent sandbox RPG. I'm torn between picking up Risen, Drakensang, or Two Worlds.

 

Drakensang isn't sandbox.

 

Risen is definitely better than Two Worlds. TW is a boring, flavorless Oblivion clone.

 

Drakensang is the best of the lot, but its much closer to NWN2 in mechanics and gameplay.

 

That said, I gave up on all three of those games after a few hours of gameplay. Drakensang's plot and quests are mind numbingly boring, Risen is just another Gothic game (and having played the first three, I've had my fill) and Two Worlds is weak all around. Note however that my tolerance for standard fantasy plots these days is practically non existent.

 

Drakensang's sequel is something to look out for, judging by Virumor's reports.

[Calax]

Amentep, the thing is, in most of those it wasn't an (as you put it) internal force. The external force you cite could have picked any bum in the street to do the job, while the Western games are with one or two exceptions, the exact opposite in that it's always some sort of force out of their control completely that compels them to go on the quest, or singles them out so that if they didn't go on the quest they'd live a life of simply fending off the bad guys.

 

And I'd personally argue that pardoning the background connection, the overall saving the world arc could have been done by any SeeD candidate, same with X. Sure the main character is basically a ghost but that doesn't mean that those events were only possible specifically BECAUSE he was a ghost (I think, haven't played the game for a long time).

You argue a difference in motivation not on their character; both genres follow the Chosen One motif. Although FF is one of the franchises where it least explicit since it usually focuses on a motley crew of unique characters fighting some greater evil and an effeminate villain, and that's the plot of every game on the series

I would argue that the Chosen One is more present on JRPGs:

Breath of Fire series

Star Ocean series

The legend of Gaia and the rest of games vaguely related to it

 

These are just a few.

 

In all these games the main character has the same trait: a hidden power that comes to shine later on the game and makes him vital to defeat the evil terrorizing the land. Whether his motives are internal or external does not change this fact.

I'm not necessairly arguing motivation. I'm more arguing the fact that in the JRPG's that I've played the characters appear to be more of a victim of circumstance than a chosen one who has some sort of special power that makes them do the primary quest. No "the last of their kind", no "object of power embedded in their chest". And your plot synopsis of FF is utterly useless given that in X the villain was the cloverfield monster, in XII it's a faceless empire, in VII I'd hardly consider Sephiroth to be effeminate. Same with Kefka from VI, and the villain in VIII was a woman...

[Amentep]

Amentep, the thing is, in most of those it wasn't an (as you put it) internal force. The external force you cite could have picked any bum in the street to do the job, while the Western games are with one or two exceptions, the exact opposite in that it's always some sort of force out of their control completely that compels them to go on the quest, or singles them out so that if they didn't go on the quest they'd live a life of simply fending off the bad guys.

 

And I'd personally argue that pardoning the background connection, the overall saving the world arc could have been done by any SeeD candidate, same with X. Sure the main character is basically a ghost but that doesn't mean that those events were only possible specifically BECAUSE he was a ghost (I think, haven't played the game for a long time).

 

The thing is - to me at least - there's no difference in an internal force (being born better) or an external force (an anointing) in terms of whether the story falls under a chosen one criteria.

 

Yes, to look at Cloud any of the SeeD candidates could have been used by Sephiroth like Cloud was - but the point of the story is he does it to Cloud. Without that Cloud has no way to follow what Sephiroth is trying to do. The same could be argued about Mass Effect - it could have easily been Kaiden or Ashley (or looking broader some other person from the shortlist of human SPECTRE candidates) who could have been brain blasted by the Eden Prime beacon. But it was Shepard who was. In both cases choices outside the direct influence of the protagonist end up with them being the one person uniquely positioned to defeat the villains.

 

In the case of Tidus, its Tidus' dad who went on the last Pilgramage. I don't remember it being coincidence that he came out of the (fayehd?) to be involved in the events, but actually directly tied to his dad's actions.

 

Note I say this as someone who wouldn't still be playing video games if it weren't for the Final Fantasy series and I mean no disrespect to those games which I've spent many hours on.

 

You argue a difference in motivation not on their character; both genres follow the Chosen One motif. Although FF is one of the franchises where it least explicit since it usually focuses on a motley crew of unique characters fighting some greater evil and an effeminate villain, and that's the plot of every game on the series

I would argue that the Chosen One is more present on JRPGs:

Breath of Fire series

Star Ocean series

The legend of Gaia and the rest of games vaguely related to it

 

These are just a few.

 

In all these games the main character has the same trait: a hidden power that comes to shine later on the game and makes him vital to defeat the evil terrorizing the land. Whether his motives are internal or external does not change this fact.

 

I'm not necessairly arguing motivation. I'm more arguing the fact that in the JRPG's that I've played the characters appear to be more of a victim of circumstance than a chosen one who has some sort of special power that makes them do the primary quest. No "the last of their kind", no "object of power embedded in their chest". And your plot synopsis of FF is utterly useless given that in X the villain was the cloverfield monster, in XII it's a faceless empire, in VII I'd hardly consider Sephiroth to be effeminate. Same with Kefka from VI, and the villain in VIII was a woman...

 

I suppose we see the "chosen one" differently; I think there are circumstances that follow incidental involvement (FFIX comes to mind as Zidane gets involved totally due to circumstance) and those where - to my mind at least - events outside the control of the hero force their involvement . I never finished the 1st Drakensang but my experience with that is the protagonist gets involved in the main plot coincidentally (having gotten a letter from an old friend), but in FFVII I really think Sephiroth's choice of Cloud as an experiment subject puts Cloud on a path he has to follow just as much as if he'd been born with a specific destiny.

 

Certainly the Breath of Fire series (you're the only dragon!) fall more into the "born different" category of chosen one (more akin to NWN2 or BG series) than the FF series as Orogun01 suggests, but I don't think that's the only form of "chosen one" story. Of course we may just end up disagreeing ultimately.

 

Moving away a bit from this debate as someone who loved most of the FF series but has found himself slowly moved away from it (never played FFXII), is FFXIII worth returning to the series for? Was XII worth playing?

Edited March 19, 2010 by Amentep

[Orogun01]

I'm not necessairly arguing motivation. I'm more arguing the fact that in the JRPG's that I've played the characters appear to be more of a victim of circumstance than a chosen one who has some sort of special power that makes them do the primary quest. No "the last of their kind", no "object of power embedded in their chest". And your plot synopsis of FF is utterly useless given that in X the villain was the cloverfield monster, in XII it's a faceless empire, in VII I'd hardly consider Sephiroth to be effeminate. Same with Kefka from VI, and the villain in VIII was a woman...

Have you checked the examples I provided?

 

I would really like to know which are these games you talk about, because in my years of gaming all JRPGs had the same structure of the PC being "special" or as we say on the West: The Chosen One.

 

FF breakdown of the effeminate villain:

 

FFVI- The first years after playing it I though Kefka was a woman he's a man

 

FFVII- Sepiroth with his long flowing hair and bishounen features doesn't look the least effeminate to you?

 

FFVIII- Seifer Almasy, who looks like David Bowie.

 

FFX- Seymour Guado

Edited March 19, 2010 by Orogun01

[Hurlshort]

I'd like a new PC game, preferably a decent sandbox RPG. I'm torn between picking up Risen, Drakensang, or Two Worlds.

 

Drakensang isn't sandbox.

 

Risen is definitely better than Two Worlds. TW is a boring, flavorless Oblivion clone.

 

Drakensang is the best of the lot, but its much closer to NWN2 in mechanics and gameplay.

 

That said, I gave up on all three of those games after a few hours of gameplay. Drakensang's plot and quests are mind numbingly boring, Risen is just another Gothic game (and having played the first three, I've had my fill) and Two Worlds is weak all around. Note however that my tolerance for standard fantasy plots these days is practically non existent.

 

Drakensang's sequel is something to look out for, judging by Virumor's reports.

 

TW seems to have a pretty massive patch that added some content, and I really enjoyed mkreku's visual review he gave earlier. Risen does have decent reviews though.

 

edit: I think I remember Volourn played TW and ejoyed it too, but I might have the wrong forumite.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Hurlshot

[Calax]

Amentep, the thing is, in most of those it wasn't an (as you put it) internal force. The external force you cite could have picked any bum in the street to do the job, while the Western games are with one or two exceptions, the exact opposite in that it's always some sort of force out of their control completely that compels them to go on the quest, or singles them out so that if they didn't go on the quest they'd live a life of simply fending off the bad guys.

 

And I'd personally argue that pardoning the background connection, the overall saving the world arc could have been done by any SeeD candidate, same with X. Sure the main character is basically a ghost but that doesn't mean that those events were only possible specifically BECAUSE he was a ghost (I think, haven't played the game for a long time).

 

The thing is - to me at least - there's no difference in an internal force (being born better) or an external force (an anointing) in terms of whether the story falls under a chosen one criteria.

 

Yes, to look at Cloud any of the SeeD candidates could have been used by Sephiroth like Cloud was - but the point of the story is he does it to Cloud. Without that Cloud has no way to follow what Sephiroth is trying to do. The same could be argued about Mass Effect - it could have easily been Kaiden or Ashley (or looking broader some other person from the shortlist of human SPECTRE candidates) who could have been brain blasted by the Eden Prime beacon. But it was Shepard who was. In both cases choices outside the direct influence of the protagonist end up with them being the one person uniquely positioned to defeat the villains.

 

In the case of Tidus, its Tidus' dad who went on the last Pilgramage. I don't remember it being coincidence that he came out of the (fayehd?) to be involved in the events, but actually directly tied to his dad's actions.

 

Note I say this as someone who wouldn't still be playing video games if it weren't for the Final Fantasy series and I mean no disrespect to those games which I've spent many hours on.

I admit that Shep was reaching for me. Also you mixed up Seed and SOLDIER. Anyway, Yes things were connected, but looking at VIII Everything kinda spirals out of the fact that you were chosen to assassinate a leader, and from that point on things get loopy to the point where a fan explanation is better than just taking it straight (the explanation of the rest of the game being Squall examining his life and the ending being hte last gasps of his mind before brain death). In VII you are a chosen one, in X I still argue that it's not so much a chosen one thing as the fact that Jecht accidentally fell through the world and ended up causing Tidus to be dragged kicking and screaming from the dream. IIRC the reason Tidus was yanked was because of Auron, although I'm not sure.

I'm not necessairly arguing motivation. I'm more arguing the fact that in the JRPG's that I've played the characters appear to be more of a victim of circumstance than a chosen one who has some sort of special power that makes them do the primary quest. No "the last of their kind", no "object of power embedded in their chest". And your plot synopsis of FF is utterly useless given that in X the villain was the cloverfield monster, in XII it's a faceless empire, in VII I'd hardly consider Sephiroth to be effeminate. Same with Kefka from VI, and the villain in VIII was a woman...

 

I suppose we see the "chosen one" differently; I think there are circumstances that follow incidental involvement (FFIX comes to mind as Zidane gets involved totally due to circumstance) and those where - to my mind at least - events outside the control of the hero force their involvement . I never finished the 1st Drakensang but my experience with that is the protagonist gets involved in the main plot coincidentally (having gotten a letter from an old friend), but in FFVII I really think Sephiroth's choice of Cloud as an experiment subject puts Cloud on a path he has to follow just as much as if he'd been born with a specific destiny.

 

Certainly the Breath of Fire series (you're the only dragon!) fall more into the "born different" category of chosen one (more akin to NWN2 or BG series) than the FF series as Orogun01 suggests, but I don't think that's the only form of "chosen one" story. Of course we may just end up disagreeing ultimately.

 

Moving away a bit from this debate as someone who loved most of the FF series but has found himself slowly moved away from it (never played FFXII), is FFXIII worth returning to the series for? Was XII worth playing?

I haven't really played many JRPG's other than FF (well, Suikoden V) so I can't really discuss that. Also, Sephiroth wasn't the one who chose Cloud to be the experimental subject, that was (I think) Hojo as Sephiroth was the one to impale Cloud causing him to be ripe for modification (as, for all intents and purposes, he was dead).

 

As to 13 vs previous, It certainly is a departure from the standards of the series. It plays more like one REALLY long dungeon than an open world game. It feels odd given you don't really see many signs of civilization beyond flashbacks where all the characters were living happily, and the first couple of areas. Once you get the ability to use magic (and have the combat system actually be more than "auto attack!") you don't really meet anything remotely close to a town (at least I haven't, but I'm not as far as some others on the board I'd bet).

[HoonDing]

I'd like a new PC game, preferably a decent sandbox RPG. I'm torn between picking up Risen, Drakensang, or Two Worlds.

Divinity 2?