Dragon Age discussion

[Guest Slinky]

http://www.baldurdash.org/kangaxx.html LOL, when DA gets poetry we can start making comparisons

Once upon a time,

in a place called Ferelden,

lived a king brave.

 

Life was great and cool for all,

until the darkspawn came and ate 'em all.

The brave king said "I'll get the wankers!"

But got himself rammed by the cranckers.

 

But then emerged a hero with titan balls,

willing to take on the monsters all.

 

But just before the great battle last,

Zevran came and said:

"Loverboy, come to my tent at last"

 

The hero with titan balls was never seen again.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Slinky

[RPGmasterBoo]

 

no

 

 

just no

 

why are you out to ruin my every evening meal?

Edited February 20, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Guest Slinky]

why are you out to ruin my every evening meal?

I get this warm and fuzzy feeling by doing it

 

But now you can let your guard down, I'm done for the day.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Slinky

[~Di]

You know, I don't think it's a mistake in DA's design, I think they wanted to do it.

 

Every hub is the same: first there's the area where you can talk and pick up the main quest, and then you proceed to the long "combat tunnel" that lasts for ages without anything different during it to brake the grind. I refuse to believe Bio did that without noticing something is wrong, no, the game is most likely just what they wanted to make. And many people seem to love it.

 

I can see why the deep roads were a nightmare for you. I'm strolling through them with no effort at all because I use one single tactic. Cast earthquake on enemies in front of you (you can see them before they can see you in third person view), follow up with Blizzard + Lightning storm = Storm of the Century. Nothing survives. Also you don't have to even cast Blizzard on enemies exactly because when SoC starts the radius significantly expands, and if you damage just one creature all the rest charge right after you - into the storm.

 

I've killed everything by following this tactic, rarely getting touched at all.

 

If I had to go through all of them with a fighter however... ugh... That would not be easy.

 

I'm always surprised that people hate Deep Roads (and Broken Circle) so much. I found Deep Roads fun and unfrustrating because, unlike most other main quest dungeons, I could do each section of Deep Roads one at a time, then pop back to Orzammar to sell excess stuff and resupply. Then I'd go back underground, refreshed and ready for the next area... without ending up having to destroy a huge hunk of my "profit" inventory when I inevitably run out of room.

 

I loved Broken Circle because, well, it was just so damned cool. The Fade was brilliant. Shapeshifting was so much fun that I was crushed to learn I lost the ability once I was out of there. And of course, getting all those free stat enhancements made me drool! I made it my mission to back-track after every new form to make sure that I got every single one of them. Greed is good!

 

I actually liked all the main quests, but the one I liked least was the Brecilian Forest area. Kind of dull, difficult to navigate, and the ruins were meh.

 

After Landsmeet, now we're talking grind big-time. I always want to tear my hair out (along with a few Bio eyeballs) getting through those final battles. Somebody was on crack when they designed the end-game. Blech.

[Enoch]

I'm always surprised that people hate Deep Roads (and Broken Circle) so much. I found Deep Roads fun and unfrustrating because, unlike most other main quest dungeons, I could do each section of Deep Roads one at a time, then pop back to Orzammar to sell excess stuff and resupply. Then I'd go back underground, refreshed and ready for the next area... without ending up having to destroy a huge hunk of my "profit" inventory when I inevitably run out of room.

 

I loved Broken Circle because, well, it was just so damned cool. The Fade was brilliant. Shapeshifting was so much fun that I was crushed to learn I lost the ability once I was out of there. And of course, getting all those free stat enhancements made me drool! I made it my mission to back-track after every new form to make sure that I got every single one of them. Greed is good!

 

I actually liked all the main quests, but the one I liked least was the Brecilian Forest area. Kind of dull, difficult to navigate, and the ruins were meh.

 

After Landsmeet, now we're talking grind big-time. I always want to tear my hair out (along with a few Bio eyeballs) getting through those final battles. Somebody was on crack when they designed the end-game. Blech.

The Deep Roads were too grindy. But to me, the grind was rewarded by the area also featuring the most entertaining boss fights of the game (gangster lady, spider queen, broodmother, the fight at the anvil). Can't say the same about the tedium at the endgame...

 

I also enjoyed the Broken Circle. A nice blend of combat and puzzles with kewl art design and such. The stat bonuses were a mistake, though. They're essentially the way that the PC gets to be better than the JNPCs-- a signicant hunk of bonuses available only to he PC. Nothing wrong with that, generally-- the PC should feel special and giving him/her stat bonuses that the other JNPCs don't get is a reasonable way to do that. But the better way to include them is to add them at character creation, or to give the PC more bonuses at level-up than the NPCs get. By putting them in the tower quest, the game unnecessarily rewards players who do that quest early (and punishes those who don't).

[Tigranes]

Agreed, the endgame was boring smudge because what could have been a great siege/battle thing was reduced to waves of samey darkspawns. At least in the Deep Roads you found some lore and unique bosses.

 

I didn't mind the tower quest much, it's not too big a deal when you're just playing the game - not to mention it's not that easy to find all of them.

[Gromnir]

I'm always surprised that people hate Deep Roads (and Broken Circle) so much. I found Deep Roads fun and unfrustrating because, unlike most other main quest dungeons, I could do each section of Deep Roads one at a time, then pop back to Orzammar to sell excess stuff and resupply. Then I'd go back underground, refreshed and ready for the next area... without ending up having to destroy a huge hunk of my "profit" inventory when I inevitably run out of room.

 

I loved Broken Circle because, well, it was just so damned cool. The Fade was brilliant. Shapeshifting was so much fun that I was crushed to learn I lost the ability once I was out of there. And of course, getting all those free stat enhancements made me drool! I made it my mission to back-track after every new form to make sure that I got every single one of them. Greed is good!

 

I actually liked all the main quests, but the one I liked least was the Brecilian Forest area. Kind of dull, difficult to navigate, and the ruins were meh.

 

After Landsmeet, now we're talking grind big-time. I always want to tear my hair out (along with a few Bio eyeballs) getting through those final battles. Somebody was on crack when they designed the end-game. Blech.

The Deep Roads were too grindy. But to me, the grind was rewarded by the area also featuring the most entertaining boss fights of the game (gangster lady, spider queen, broodmother, the fight at the anvil). Can't say the same about the tedium at the endgame...

 

I also enjoyed the Broken Circle. A nice blend of combat and puzzles with kewl art design and such. The stat bonuses were a mistake, though. They're essentially the way that the PC gets to be better than the JNPCs-- a signicant hunk of bonuses available only to he PC. Nothing wrong with that, generally-- the PC should feel special and giving him/her stat bonuses that the other JNPCs don't get is a reasonable way to do that. But the better way to include them is to add them at character creation, or to give the PC more bonuses at level-up than the NPCs get. By putting them in the tower quest, the game unnecessarily rewards players who do that quest early (and punishes those who don't).

 

the stat boosts may have a second use other than just making the pc SUPERIOR. play sten or the french tart and see how long it takes before they becomes genuine contributing members o' your party. without stat boosts your pc would be in a similar situation. looking at the actual improvements, rogues benefits the most, no? there is some rogue builds that can be built pumping nothing but dex, but no doubt the play testers realized that the typical rogue player wanted to actual be able to disarm traps too. rogues is the hardest characters to build in da, and they is the ones that benefit most from the stat boosts. likewise, we thinks that warriors got useful boosts from the broken circle, particularly those builds that couldn't rely on total stat dump into one or two attributes. on the other hand, mages does not have to genuine worry 'bout boost anything save magic... and maybe some willpower. anybody notice that mages benefit least from mage tower boosting? is maybe a little ironic that mage tower is where the developers found a way to help out the more challenging classes and builds given that mages benefit least from such boosts.

 

am thinking that mage tower attribute boosts exist in part to correct some o' the imbalances in the classes. is a wacky and bass ackwards approach, but it is a practical solution to the radical different burdens some classes/builds has as far as stat distribution is concerned.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 21, 2010 by Gromnir

[Nepenthe]

why are you out to ruin my every evening meal?

I get this warm and fuzzy feeling by doing it

 

But now you can let your guard down, I'm done for the day.

 

That's what Zevran said, too.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm always surprised that people hate Deep Roads (and Broken Circle) so much. I found Deep Roads fun and unfrustrating because, unlike most other main quest dungeons, I could do each section of Deep Roads one at a time, then pop back to Orzammar to sell excess stuff and resupply. Then I'd go back underground, refreshed and ready for the next area... without ending up having to destroy a huge hunk of my "profit" inventory when I inevitably run out of room.

 

I loved Broken Circle because, well, it was just so damned cool. The Fade was brilliant. Shapeshifting was so much fun that I was crushed to learn I lost the ability once I was out of there. And of course, getting all those free stat enhancements made me drool! I made it my mission to back-track after every new form to make sure that I got every single one of them. Greed is good!

 

I actually liked all the main quests, but the one I liked least was the Brecilian Forest area. Kind of dull, difficult to navigate, and the ruins were meh.

 

After Landsmeet, now we're talking grind big-time. I always want to tear my hair out (along with a few Bio eyeballs) getting through those final battles. Somebody was on crack when they designed the end-game. Blech.

 

I'm not really hating it because I'm not getting into combat all that much (courtesy of SoC). If i had to, the inecessant darkstalker ambushes and darkspawn fights would have me tearing my hair out in frustration. I was ambushed 4 times in the same area with the deepstalker matriarch. Plus the level design is incredibly bland.

 

The Broken Circle and the Fade produced some serious NWN deja vu. Plus being reduced to one character automatically erases all the tension because conciously or unconciously I know there is going to be little actual challange in that area. The protracted toying with shapeshifting was done before somewhere but I can't for the life of me remember where. Overall IMO the quest was perfectly paced to end at the point you come upon the demon, the Fade just lenghtened it... a lot

 

Note: I enjoy tactical combat, but I like varied challanges. The lack of specific tactics for enemies, when playing a mage makes every encounter appear the same. After a certain point what was initially fun becomes a pain. The lack of variation in enemies has already been mentioned. As has the length of individual encounters.

 

+You're scaring me with this talk of grind after Landsmeet. If its grindier than the deep roads what the hell is it like

Edited February 21, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Maria Caliban]

http://www.baldurdash.org/kangaxx.html LOL, when DA gets poetry we can start making comparisons

 

That's already happened.

[Oner]

Once upon a time,

in a place called Ferelden,

lived a king brave.

 

Life was great and cool for all,

until the darkspawn came and ate 'em all.

The brave king said "I'll get the wankers!"

But got himself rammed by the cranckers.

 

But then emerged a hero with titan balls,

willing to take on the monsters all.

 

But just before the great battle last,

Zevran came and said:

"Loverboy, come to my tent at last"

 

The hero with titan balls was never seen again.

[RPGmasterBoo]

http://www.baldurdash.org/kangaxx.html LOL, when DA gets poetry we can start making comparisons

 

That's already happened.

 

[RPGmasterBoo]

Jesus Christ, the grind.

 

I was strolling along happily thinking that by the time got to the dead trenches it was gonna wrap up. Then the dead trenches came. The damn map winds and winds and never seems to end. I kill the blob at the end and was all happy the quest was going to end... only it didn't. I went to the next location thinking it was going to be a non combat area (didn't replenish my potions), bang the game locks me up in a tunnel filled with darkspawn and golems. Nooooooo let meeee ouuuuuut aarrrrgh. I kill them all, and finally get to meet that tin can at the end only to end up in another massive battle. I struggle through that and the quest resolution (the quest itself being pretty good) and phew I can breathe again. NOT. Yet another slaughter in the throne room and that was the last straw. At the end I was twitching over the keyboard just waiting for the next cut scene to dissolve into carnage.

 

DA succeeds in one thing - in showing the tiresome, nerve wrecking side of war.

 

Whoever designed the story of the quests did a good/great job. Whoever came up with the idea that between the PC and quest resolution there should be several hundred monsters scaled to your level, and a hundred corridors should be hanged. I've never seen Bioware make such an epic sized screwup in area design.

[Volourn]

You gave the reason why DA is awesoem comapred to BG. BG gives you throngs of wussy xfarts to slaughter without even trying where your mage can mass murder them with a dagger. DA challenges and makes you think or actually *do* something productive during a fight.

 

The Deep Roads are awesome. Plain, and simple. People say it lacks avriety and is a grind but I disagree. But, shrug, to each their own.

 

Deep Roads is what BG2's underdark or HOTU's udnermountain should have been like. Hell. No mercy. In fact, DR didn't go FAR enough. The fact you can leave any time inbetween areas weakens it.

[~Di]

I'm not really hating it because I'm not getting into combat all that much (courtesy of SoC). If i had to, the inecessant darkstalker ambushes and darkspawn fights would have me tearing my hair out in frustration. I was ambushed 4 times in the same area with the deepstalker matriarch. Plus the level design is incredibly bland.

 

The Broken Circle and the Fade produced some serious NWN deja vu. Plus being reduced to one character automatically erases all the tension because conciously or unconciously I know there is going to be little actual challange in that area. The protracted toying with shapeshifting was done before somewhere but I can't for the life of me remember where. Overall IMO the quest was perfectly paced to end at the point you come upon the demon, the Fade just lenghtened it... a lot

 

Note: I enjoy tactical combat, but I like varied challanges. The lack of specific tactics for enemies, when playing a mage makes every encounter appear the same. After a certain point what was initially fun becomes a pain. The lack of variation in enemies has already been mentioned. As has the length of individual encounters.

 

+You're scaring me with this talk of grind after Landsmeet. If its grindier than the deep roads what the hell is it like

 

 

My favorite character to play is a dual-wielding assassin rogue (with duelist sub-specialty). I love kicking my prey in the... er... stunning my prey with dirty fighting, then flanking them for some stabbity-stabbity-backstab goodness. Bwahaha. Besides, as a rogue I'm right up front to spot traps and disarm immediately. None of this waiting for Zevran to say "trap there" at the same moment my mage is flying through the air. Playing a mage is different, but I'm only playing one this game to see how the story plays out when my elf choses Zevran instead of the racist moron Alistair. All any party needs is one mage, and since I use a respec mod either Morrigan or Wynne can do anything my PC mage can do. You can try so many different tactics... traps, ambushes, kiting enemies back to the group. It can really be fun to figure out different ways to win battles. Sneaking a cloaked rogue behind a powerful emissary to stun and backstab while your group rushes in from the tunnels can be quite satisfying!

 

I'm surprised you hate the combat in DA:O. That it was combat intensive was never a secret. For me, most missions don't really seem too combat-heavy... btw, when you describe the deepstalker matriarch, isn't that in Shayle's personal quest? I don't recall such an area in the main quest thaigs. The Deep Trench bridge was meant to be a very difficult battle, but with the magic of blizzard or SoC, not really a problem, true.

 

Now for the end battles. This is merely to prepare you so you don't do something unhelpful to your innocent computer out of shock and rage... but be afraid. Be very afraid. My advice? Don't pull in allies so you can spam your SoC without slaughtering friendlies to make the misery manageable. I have no problems with the combat-heavy tactics in the rest of the game; I rather enjoy them. But I think I can say without exaggeration that you will not find many people who did not actively dispise the final battles. Fortunately, it is only a couple of hours out of an immense, and for me most enjoyable, game.

 

Do give the game another chance with a rogue character. Once you have already been through the main quests, you'll be surprised how much quicker they seem... and even more enjoyable... the second time around.

Edited February 22, 2010 by ~Di

[Volourn]

Plus, ALL of BIO's games are combat extensive including the BGs. Consideirng you murder upwards of 100 xvarts in one small area of one map in BG1 says it all.

[Enoch]

btw, when you describe the deepstalker matriarch, isn't that in Shayle's personal quest? I don't recall such an area in the main quest thaigs.

The deepstalker matriarch was wholly un-memorable. It was just another battle in a corner of one of the Deep Roads maps, where one of the Deepstalkers happened to be a little tougher than the others and have the "Deepstalker Matriarch" name. Because I don't think I was ever harmed by a single deepstalker (I don't know if the level scaling wasn't working with them or what-- they wholly failed to be anything close to a challenge) and because the matriarch was only marginally tougher than a normal deepstalker, I can understand not noticing. Frankly, I wish that the deepstalker leader had gotten a proper boss battle, like the spider queen did (which was a fun fight).

[jaguars4ever]

Plus, ALL of BIO's games are combat extensive including the BGs. Consideirng you murder upwards of 100 xvarts in one small area of one map in BG1 says it all.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[HoonDing]

DA final parts = Gnoll Fortress.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm not really hating it because I'm not getting into combat all that much (courtesy of SoC). If i had to, the inecessant darkstalker ambushes and darkspawn fights would have me tearing my hair out in frustration. I was ambushed 4 times in the same area with the deepstalker matriarch. Plus the level design is incredibly bland.

 

The Broken Circle and the Fade produced some serious NWN deja vu. Plus being reduced to one character automatically erases all the tension because conciously or unconciously I know there is going to be little actual challange in that area. The protracted toying with shapeshifting was done before somewhere but I can't for the life of me remember where. Overall IMO the quest was perfectly paced to end at the point you come upon the demon, the Fade just lenghtened it... a lot

 

Note: I enjoy tactical combat, but I like varied challanges. The lack of specific tactics for enemies, when playing a mage makes every encounter appear the same. After a certain point what was initially fun becomes a pain. The lack of variation in enemies has already been mentioned. As has the length of individual encounters.

 

+You're scaring me with this talk of grind after Landsmeet. If its grindier than the deep roads what the hell is it like

 

 

I'm surprised you hate the combat in DA:O. That it was combat intensive was never a secret. For me, most missions don't really seem too combat-heavy... btw, when you describe the deepstalker matriarch, isn't that in Shayle's personal quest? I don't recall such an area in the main quest thaigs. The Deep Trench bridge was meant to be a very difficult battle, but with the magic of blizzard or SoC, not really a problem, true.

Now for the end battles. This is merely to prepare you so you don't do something unhelpful to your innocent computer out of shock and rage... but be afraid. Be very afraid. My advice? Don't pull in allies so you can spam your SoC without slaughtering friendlies to make the misery manageable. I have no problems with the combat-heavy tactics in the rest of the game; I rather enjoy them. But I think I can say without exaggeration that you will not find many people who did not actively dispise the final battles. Fortunately, it is only a couple of hours out of an immense, and for me most enjoyable, game.

 

I don't hate it. The system is fine, but there is too much of it crammed in inbetween non combat gameplay. Either something's wrong with my playing style or the micro is simply too repetetive. With my party of Sten + Oghren + Wynne every battle looks like this:

Sten + Oghren (or Alistair, doesn't matter much) = spam their abilities (since they have the same ones), critical strike on frozen/stunned enemies

Wynne = Heal + Mass Heal + Petrify + Stonefist + occasiona Revival

Me = if SoC isn't feasible then > Petrify, Cone of Cold, Lightning, + other, non-storm type direct damage elemental magic

 

That's really the only strategy I can play with these characters, their abilities being what they are. It doesn't matter if I'm fighting mobs or a boss battle, the tactics don't chage, just the target does.

 

First ten times around,its fine but slowly it becomes a burden. You have to micro the fighers+ control the camera + click on my spells every 5 seconds, click on Wynnes spells every 5 seconds, potions every thirty seconds etc.

In the entire 6 hour long deep roads there are exactly five, 3-4 minute conversations, Ruck, Hespith, Branka, Cairdin and that Legion soldier. The occasional quest that pops up is often just a matter of picking something up as you go along. Overall, like I said - the comgat itself is good but the ratio of combat to everything else is 9:1

 

The deepstalker matriarch is just a random mob in an empty area, where for every cm you move another batch of deepstalkers spawn, until the matriarch itself spawns. She isn't all that hard.

 

If I played the game in 2 hour chunks instead of five hour marathons it might have been less nerve wracking.

[Gorgon]

I thought the golem boss battle was mainly tedious because of the ammount of running you had to do. The only thing you could take on head on were the normal golems, everything else I had to cone of cold, run away, do it all over again 100 times to win.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I thought the golem boss battle was mainly tedious because of the ammount of running you had to do. The only thing you could take on head on were the normal golems, everything else I had to cone of cold, run away, do it all over again 100 times to win.

 

I just focus on one golem at a time and throw everything I have at it. They were easy but Branka was a pain in the ass until she was the only one left.

[Nepenthe]

All I can say that with console controls, you get to REALLY feel the overabundance of combat.

 

And the Tower, with strategically placed fallen bookshelves forcing you to take the long way around on every level, feels even more of a cheap stretch-out than the Deep Roads. Which, as mentioned, you can do in pieces to save some of your sanity.

[Guest Slinky]

Jesus Christ, the grind.

Finally someone who feels the same way. Atleast you just loaned the game, I paid 50€ for that brain destroying grind fest.

 

Oh how I wish I could sell it in steam somehow.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Jesus Christ, the grind.

Finally someone who feels the same way. Atleast you just loaned the game, I paid 50