Mass Effect 2 Discussion

[Orogun01]

Beer Effect:

 

1. Get to the local bar and chat up some asari matriarch

2. pretend you're listening to her 1000-year long life story while you hit the bottle, hard

3. ????

4. PROFIT!!!

What?! if you get drunk she gets better looking? I gotta try that on Jack.

[jaguars4ever]

No. You have to try it with Wrex:

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

That's not the most terrifying thing the fans have come up with. Makes you wonder.

Edited February 11, 2010 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Volourn]

W...T...F.... R00fles!

 

 

Some interesting tidbits aboutt he 'randomness' of the last mission dealing with the 'hold the line' part:

 

"Dusty Everman wrote...

 

Mordin's death is not a glitch or bug. I believe that when people are surprised with Mordin's death, it's during the "Hold the Line" time where you leave crew behind as you and two squad mates move onward. Tech had their moment in the sun with the tunnel infiltration. A biotic is key for the protective bubble. The Hold the Line sequence is time for your soldier types to do their best.

 

Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line. Don't think about offensive solo strikers. Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie. You want them to hold the line.

 

Under the hood, each character has a "hole the line" score, which gets a bonus if the character is loyal. Characters like Mordin, Jack and Tali are squishy and not exoeruenced with bunkering down and holding out for an extended period of time. Characters like Grunt and Zaeed are tanks who thrive on this type of work. The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line, and the number of survivors are calculated. If people are to die, the non-loyals squishies go first through the list to the loyal tanks. Alas, I think Mordin is at the head of the death list. Some characters can't survive without help even if they are loyal. Others can survive even if not loyal.

 

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:

Loyal Mordin by himself: He can't hold the line by himself. He dies.

Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives. He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.

Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt: Grunt dies, but Mordin lives. Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.

Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

 

Note it is possible to get non-loyal henchmen to survive through the end game with the proper group holding the line.

 

So what is a good strategy? Send back a loyal squishy with the crew, like Mordin or Tali. Leave your defensive bad asses to hold the line (hmmm, Garrus defended a base all by himself to an extended period of time....) and take your loyal offensive favorites with you to the end.

 

As for saving Kelly and the crew, you just need to make sure you go through the Omega-4 relay right after the crew is taken, and make sure you send a loyal squad mate back as an escort."

[Nepenthe]

Looks like my initial assessment (Mordin survival depends on who else is holding the line) was correct. Fancy that.

[Krookie]

W...T...F.... R00fles!

 

 

Some interesting tidbits aboutt he 'randomness' of the last mission dealing with the 'hold the line' part:

 

Interesting but not necessary to know that to get your team through. Common sense will get your team through the mission. Does anyone really think Miranda is capable of the biotic bubble? OBVIOUSLY you are supposed to use a master of biotics. Does anyone really pick someone like Grunt to lead the team? OBVIOUSLY he is to reckless to command a squad. Mordin was the (for me) obvious choice to lead the team BACK to the ship...They would clearly face minimal combat as we had cleared out everything on the way there...And he is of no real combat use.

[Aram]

volorn please stop saying roofles

Edited February 11, 2010 by Aram

[Volourn]

"volorn please stop saying roofles "

 

R00fles!

 

 

P.S. perhaps if the guy named Alam could spell Volourn right maybe I would. Nah.

 

 

P.S.S. To be on topic unlike the troll above...

 

 

"Interesting but not necessary to know that to get your team through. "

 

Some people had questions. It doesn't matter if it's 'common sense' to you. This is for them not for know-it-alls.

[Chrisimo]

"Get out of the human mindset. Krogans are *aliens* for a reason, and that's a good thing. "

 

there are no genuine alien characters in mass effect or mass effect 2-- and that ain't a criticism. makes genuine alien and you remove possibility of simple empathy and understanding. for a story-driven game to work it is necessary for krogan and even geth to be human. sure, they is savage tribals who were forcibly evolved and then smacked down hard via a disease that attacked their native fecundity, but there is nothing alien 'bout krogan emotions and characters... they is human, regardless of how they looks.

 

some silicon-based puddle of goo from tralfax iv could be making for an intriguing alien, but unless it gots recognizable human emotions and motivations it would never be suitable as a crpg character.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Humans cannot imagine truly alien characters. Unless you count insects as aliens. Every 'alien' species will always be a mixture of what wee see in other humans or animals. That was my point about Krogans as a species being somewhat alien because they all seemingly have the same mindset. For humans this would be impossible. You will always have an anti-war type, regardless of circumstance (though percentage of war/anti-war types will vary of course).

If the writer want to create an alien species the most obvious difference to humans will be looks/physiology. Otherwise there isn't much a writer can do.

 

 

The Krogans are dying out because of their mindset. At least that much is said by Wrex. So it's not like the writers haven't thought about the problematic nature of the Krogan singlemindedness in relation to their survival. The fact that they installed Wrex as the leader shows that the writers think like you. Remember that before the genophage the Krogans at least had the numbers. If only one of 1000 births is successfull then they at least had the manpower aspect covered before the genophage. It is even possible that their wars were an effective way to keep the population in check. I think it would be really illuminating to have transcriptions of everything the writer have discussed during the creation of the Krogan species. It's easy to dismiss their development as stupid or lacking in thought when you do not know the writers thoughts behind that.

The krogans are dying because of the genophage and the wanderlust which is a result of it; but the warlike mindset predates it by far. Wrex is simply trying to find a way to prevent the extinction of the krogan around the genophage.

 

The reason societies progress forward is because their advances give them a decisive edge over competitors. That it takes player intervention (made flesh in Wrex) for a krogan to even propose these changes is exactly what I'm complaining about. How many other krogan share his views? Have you tried importing a save where Wrex died on Virmire?

 

As for what the writers may have been thinking... irrelevant speculation. Only meaningful discussion can be about what is in the game, no?

 

No, because we don't have enough information as to how the Krogans survived this long. We have to speculate. We both agree that the Krogans are dying out now because most of them would rather fight and die as mercenaries than do something about their species situation. And the writers agree about that too. The only thing that we don't agree about is that the Krogan couldn't have survived this long or couldn't have developed fission.

Having a warlike mindset in itself does not hinder progress. A lot of our progresses have been made in preparation for or during wars. Very often the military would invent things that are later used for civilian purposes. We don't know how the Krogan were like before the genophage. They had developed fission. This would be an indicator that they did have a more rational approach to war during that time.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Chrisimo

[Deraldin]

"Interesting but not necessary to know that to get your team through. "

 

Some people had questions. It doesn't matter if it's 'common sense' to you. This is for them not for know-it-alls.

 

Very interesting stuff actually and thanks for reposting it over here. It's not hard to get everyone to survive if you do all the loyalty missions, however it's good to know this stuff if you're trying for a minimum-accomplished-everyone-lives run.

 

I've got 5 people loyal on my current run. Garrus, Legion, Mordin, Miranda and Jack. Mordin was squishy, so he went back with the crew. First run through taking Garrus and Legion for the final boss led to Tali being dead after the HTL moment. However it doesn't appear that there is any combination I can make with those 4 loyal squaddies that results in Tali surviving. Because I'm obsessed with making sure everyone lives, this will be the second time I backtrack to the IFF mission in order to do more stuff. However, next time around it'll provide some more guidance on who I need loyal.

[Nepenthe]

The way some people talk about "random deaths" during the first part of the mission (tech spec/2nd team), I'm starting to wonder if the timer's visible just on the x360 version

[Chrisimo]

"Interesting but not necessary to know that to get your team through. "

 

Some people had questions. It doesn't matter if it's 'common sense' to you. This is for them not for know-it-alls.

 

Very interesting stuff actually and thanks for reposting it over here. It's not hard to get everyone to survive if you do all the loyalty missions, however it's good to know this stuff if you're trying for a minimum-accomplished-everyone-lives run.

 

I've got 5 people loyal on my current run. Garrus, Legion, Mordin, Miranda and Jack. Mordin was squishy, so he went back with the crew. First run through taking Garrus and Legion for the final boss led to Tali being dead after the HTL moment. However it doesn't appear that there is any combination I can make with those 4 loyal squaddies that results in Tali surviving. Because I'm obsessed with making sure everyone lives, this will be the second time I backtrack to the IFF mission in order to do more stuff. However, next time around it'll provide some more guidance on who I need loyal.

 

Send Legion back with the crew and take Miranda and Mordin with you to fight the last boss.

 

Did you recruit everyone?

Edited February 11, 2010 by Chrisimo

[HoonDing]

If one does the IFF mission as soon as it becomes available, does the game 'wait' until all other N7/Recruitment/Loyalty missions are finished?

[Chrisimo]

If one does the IFF mission as soon as it becomes available, does the game 'wait' until all other N7/Recruitment/Loyalty missions are finished?

 

No. You have two missions left after the IFF mission until the crew gets captured.

[HoonDing]

No. You have two missions left after the IFF mission until the crew gets captured.

That's a pity. I was hoping to scout around with Legion much more than just his loyalty mission.

[Chrisimo]

No. You have two missions left after the IFF mission until the crew gets captured.

That's a pity. I was hoping to scout around with Legion much more than just his loyalty mission.

 

You could do Tali's loyalty mission with Legion. It's the most fun mission to take him with you, anyway. And you can take him on missions after the suicide mission. The game is still playable then and you can finish missions.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Chrisimo

[Deraldin]

Send Legion back with the crew and take Miranda and Mordin with you to fight the last boss.

 

Did you recruit everyone?

 

Everyone is recruited. Sent Legion back with the crew. Tried Mordin/Jack and Mordin/Miranda. Tali was dead in both cases. It's 4:21am, I think further testing can wait till tomorrow. I have a save right at the end of Haestrom so I'll grab Tali's loyalty mission instead of Legions and see what happens in that instance. Will let everyone know tomorrow.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Deraldin

[213374U]

Having a warlike mindset in itself does not hinder progress. A lot of our progresses have been made in preparation for or during wars. Very often the military would invent things that are later used for civilian purposes. We don't know how the Krogan were like before the genophage. They had developed fission. This would be an indicator that they did have a more rational approach to war during that time.

A warlike mindset doesn't necessarily hinder progress. But endemic warfare does, as it constantly destroys resources, infrastructure and production, that could be better used otherwise. The idea that a lot of progress is made in wartime is a misconception due to the non-linear, multi-disciplinary nature of research. During wartime more projects may be completed, but overall scientific progress is hampered due to, well, war.

 

The krogan probably had a more rational approach to everything before their nuclear war, even if we don't really know what they were like in that period. But we do know what they were like in the millenia between that and the genophage, because it's in the codex. What they used to be or could have been doesn't matter however as those krogan are all gone, magically replaced by a bunch of overly aggressive, honor-obssessed simpletons.

Edited February 11, 2010 by 213374U

[Guest The Architect]

My Tip would be:

 

Miranda, Jacob and Jack must not be loyal. All others must be.

 

1st part: Tali/Legion as tech specialist. Garrus as 2nd team leader.

2nd part: Samara as biotic specialist. Garrus as 2nd team leader. Jacob as crew escort (Jacob will die).

3rd part: Miranda and someone NOT Jack with Shepard ti fight the last boss. Jack has to be with the defenders. (Miranda will die, Jack probably, too)

 

 

I'm not sure about the door defenders. My guess is that you need 7 people to defend the door to have everyone of them survive. If that's true than killing off someone before that part means one of the defenders will die. Unless you have Zaeed. Then you still have 7 defenders left.

 

It's going to be almost impossible to knock all 3 of them off now without killing someone else, too (although Zaeed's not exactly unwelcome on the hit list), because I've done all the loyalty quests, but not Legion's yet, since I just got him (does he have one, though)?

 

What if I put Jacob as the tech specialist? Despite loyalty, he isn't cut for the job, so that could end... well. I'm guessing Miranda and Jack would survive either one of holding the line or being the biotic specialist, though, even though they wouldn't be the best option for the job.

 

I could deliberately not upgrade the ship to a strong level and hope that they get killed that way, but there's no way of knowing who would be killed as far as I'm aware.

[Nepenthe]

My Tip would be:

 

Miranda, Jacob and Jack must not be loyal. All others must be.

 

1st part: Tali/Legion as tech specialist. Garrus as 2nd team leader.

2nd part: Samara as biotic specialist. Garrus as 2nd team leader. Jacob as crew escort (Jacob will die).

3rd part: Miranda and someone NOT Jack with Shepard ti fight the last boss. Jack has to be with the defenders. (Miranda will die, Jack probably, too)

 

 

I'm not sure about the door defenders. My guess is that you need 7 people to defend the door to have everyone of them survive. If that's true than killing off someone before that part means one of the defenders will die. Unless you have Zaeed. Then you still have 7 defenders left.

 

It's going to be almost impossible to knock all 3 of them off now without killing someone else, too (although Zaeed's not exactly unwelcome on the hit list), because I've done all the loyalty quests, but not Legion's yet, since I just got him (does he have one, though)?

 

What if I put Jacob as the tech specialist? Despite loyalty, he isn't cut for the job, so that could end... well. I'm guessing Miranda and Jack would survive either one of holding the line or being the biotic specialist, though, even though they wouldn't be the best option for the job.

 

I could deliberately not upgrade the ship to a strong level and hope that they get killed that way, but there's no way of knowing who would be killed as far as I'm aware.

 

Legion has a loyalty quest. Jacob dies as a tech spec. Miranda is not good as the biotic spec (she's a sentinel, not a full biotic) - "not good", of course depends on what you're aiming for. Jack, OTOH, is one of the two "best" choices for biotic spec.

 

Again "Good" specialists

 

Tech: Tali, Legion

Leader: Miranda, Jacob, Garrus

Biotic: Samara, Jack,

Morinth

 

 

And as we know now, the "hold the line" group is a crapshoot. With max loyalty it's possible to send Zaeed away, grab Samara and Miranda for the final confrontation and still have everybody survive. Guess loyal Thane, Grunt, Legion and Garrus are enough to keep the squishies alive, too.

[Rosbjerg]

I only had Legion die.. which was quite annoying.

 

Legion was Tech

Samara was the leader of the second team,

then she was the biotic bubble babe.

While Miranda took over as leader.

Mordin took people back

Tali and Garrus came to the boss fight

 

Everyone was loyal etc etc.. perhaps I need to switch Tali and Legion?

[Nepenthe]

I only had Legion die.. which was quite annoying.

 

Legion was Tech

Samara was the leader of the second team,

then she was the biotic bubble babe.

While Miranda took over as leader.

Mordin took people back

Tali and Garrus came to the boss fight

 

Everyone was loyal etc etc.. perhaps I need to switch Tali and Legion?

 

No, you needed to use Garrus/Miranda/Jacob as the leader of the second team the first time around.

[Volourn]

Yeah, Samara even with her experience, doesn't make a good leader. She's a soloist much like Thane. It's alsoa good diea to bring two loyal people with you for the final boss battle. I think disloyal ones lead to them dying and potentially you too.

 

In still say the Collector ship is one of the best 'levels/areas' I have ever seen in a game based on atmopshere alone. Thd derelict reaper, while cool, didn't match up to it.

[Orogun01]

Yeah, Samara even with her experience, doesn't make a good leader. She's a soloist much like Thane. It's alsoa good diea to bring two loyal people with you for the final boss battle. I think disloyal ones lead to them dying and potentially you too.

 

In still say the Collector ship is one of the best 'levels/areas' I have ever seen in a game based on atmopshere alone. Thd derelict reaper, while cool, didn't match up to it.

I used Samara as a leader for my first playthrough, worked out fine.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, Samara even with her experience, doesn't make a good leader. She's a soloist much like Thane. It's alsoa good diea to bring two loyal people with you for the final boss battle. I think disloyal ones lead to them dying and potentially you too.

 

In still say the Collector ship is one of the best 'levels/areas' I have ever seen in a game based on atmopshere alone. Thd derelict reaper, while cool, didn't match up to it.

I used Samara as a leader for my first playthrough, worked out fine.

 

O_o

 

First I've heard.