What is your opinion on the Israeli-Palestenian conflict

[Calax]

It is so funny to see your reviews in comparison to strategy, wargames, modern shooters gaming sites reviews about the subject.

you dont give a ****, or pick a side, about some damn thing that is so far from you, they (the other gamers) are so interested and involved in this.

This is the beauty of being a fantasy or sci-fi gamer, you dont care about things that are not concerning you, anyway as response to some people-

thejews picked israel, because it's their homeland, which they were exiled from by the romans some 2000 years ago, in their daily prayers for 2000 years they prayed to return there, after a lot of immigration to that barren place some 100 years ago the jews managed to settle again, the arabs didn't much care.

some 80 years ago, the Arab nations developed nationality and wanted to settle the area with more arabs (which was the most percentage of the populace)

the British , promised both them and jews this place in return for aiding them in ww1 (without the sides knowing about the other).

for 20 years since then, the arabs killed jewish civilians to scare them. after ww2 (in which the world was ashamed of ignoring the jewish holocaust) the jewish settlements demanded the british departure from israel (which the u.n granted them 3 years later) soon after the u.n declaration of israel (in whch 1/3 of the country will be jewish while the other will be arab and jerusalem will be cosmopolitic), the arab population began massacaring the mingled cities (mingled with jews and arabs) the jewish settlements organized a semi professional army for years, while the arabs counted on big mobs and voulenteers from neighboring arab nations (especially iraq) this and the fact that the jewish settlements stayed in their place, instead of running to other countries, like most of the arab non-fighting civilians did, made the ending of the first part of the war in jewish favor (not only they defended all their borders, they conquered most of the important palestenian major cities and villages). in their violation of the u.n agreement (in the massacers and non-recognition of israel) the palestenians did somthing that made them refugees till now- instead of trying to make a parlement (like Israel did even before the u.n declaration) they turned to the arab newly formed nations for military help (meaning, that every part an arab nation will conquer from the jews will stay theirs, not the palestinians) and thus started the war that will change the middle east forever together with the wars that will follow it's wake.

my hand is acking, if you realy want my to continue (which im sure you will not) just ask.

so "its our homeland" is a defense for the level of inequality that is imposed on palisinians? I mean you can't claim something is a homeland and that it should be yours if you haven't owned the bloody thing in living memory. I don't really care about the whole thing but I dislike any group appearing and getting a "holier than thou" attitude and play the victim to garner sympathy to keep outsiders sending them money and influence.

 

And honestly the above is part of why I dislike sending support or anything Israels way, "This is my history, feel sad for me!" And then you say that Palestine is trying to get another war going by "turning to newly formed nations" for military help. Now I'm not entirely sure about the political situation in that region, but I'm pretty sure the only newly formed regimes in the area are Iraq and afganistan, one is US supported (and the US would NEVER support an attack on the israelis becuase people eat up the "woe is me" stuff) the other is having the rumblings of another civil war due to US's failure.

[Gorgon]

the British , promised both them and jews this place in return for aiding them in ww1 (without the sides knowing about the other).

for 20 years since then, the arabs killed jewish civilians to scare them. after ww2 (in which the world was ashamed of ignoring the jewish holocaust) the jewish settlements demanded the british departure from israel (which the u.n granted them 3 years later)

 

There seems to be missing some rather poignant details from your history lesson, namely that the British left after only after Zionist terrorists assassinated the person charged with handling the transition, groups who were also responsible for numerous attacks on Palestinians. So, you see, it's not exactly like Arafat invented terrorism in the middle east, although he did employ it to great political effect. Without it the eyes of the world would simply have passed over the Palestinian problem, and therein lies the problem : contrary to what common sense should tell us, the middle eastern experience is that terrorism works.

[kirottu]

The solution, of course, is to create a third state right between the two. A middle child, if you will.

 

What an beautiful and elegant solution. You have my vote!

[Rostere]

I think Israel+Palestine should be one state. The whole idea that one "people" shoucl have one "state" is absurd and belongs to late 19th century nationalism. The Israeli and the palestinian peoples must learn to live with each other, regardless of their differences. The separation as it looks now is just a de facto apartheid where the palestinians are locked into ghettoes under Israel's control. You should strive toward unity, not towards increasing already existing differences.

 

The hard thing would of course be to unify the Israeli and the Palestinian peoples without violence. Ideally, I would want this to take place without a single Israeli or Palestinian dying.

[Volourn]

"Israel are illegally occupying palestinian land and should do as international law tells them to which is GTFO. "

 

Except, people who know their history - even a little bit - knows that hsitorically the area known as Palestine isn't really the 'Palestinians' homeland. They stole it just like most lands are stolen. So, to whine that it was 'illegally' taken is laughable.

 

That said, neither side is innocent in the conflict. Just a dream, but a peaceful solution would be nice but unlikely.

[Lare Kikkeli]

"Israel are illegally occupying palestinian land and should do as international law tells them to which is GTFO. "

 

Except, people who know their history - even a little bit - knows that hsitorically the area known as Palestine isn't really the 'Palestinians' homeland. They stole it just like most lands are stolen. So, to whine that it was 'illegally' taken is laughable.

 

That said, neither side is innocent in the conflict. Just a dream, but a peaceful solution would be nice but unlikely.

 

 

Eh, what are you on about? Israeli militia and settlers have seen seizing palestinian land illegally for decades. The Obama administration has told them to get out of the captured land which they have promised to do... You really think that it's ok for anyone strong enough to seize whatever land they see fit in this day and age?

[213374U]

Is that a trick question?

[Gorth]

Too many people with too many spurious claims on that stretch of land. Currently it is "might is right" that determines who controls it. I say give it to Italy, it was after all a Roman province. The middle east run by Berlusconi...

[Volourn]

" You really think that it's ok for anyone strong enough to seize whatever land they see fit in this day and age? "

 

Read my post, dude.

[Pidesco]

The only solution to the conflict would be to hold an actual, all-out war for territory, old school style, between the two sides without any outside meddling. Whoever is left standing wins by default.

 

So yeah, the conflict will last forever.

[Gorgon]

The Jews had been gone for far too long to make any kind of legal claim to the land, that would be patently nonsensical.

 

The claim is not legal, in fact it's not even logical, it's entirely emotional and spiritual and as such doesn't really stack up against the claims of the Palestinians who were displaced in a very real sense. We have to deal with reality though, and reality is that they are both there now and have to make some kind of compromise.

[Walsingham]

I'm nervous about posting. I don't have a coherent standpoint. I do have a couple of strongly held thoughts on the matter:

 

1: Terrorism by anyone on anyone is wrong. It's a tactic based on application of random violence with the aim of provoking such a f***ed up state of affairs that reason and thought goes out the window to be replaced by some other agenda. I don't see how that can ever be good.

 

2. As crap a time as the Palestinians have had, I am a student of history. Countries are carved out by military winners. My own country was carved out by military winners. Name me one country which wasn't. The Zionists won militarily....

 

3. Yes, Zionist control seems destined to involve bloodshed, but Lare's GTFO plan would also involve bloodshed, surely?*

 

I guess if I had a solution it would be to let nature takes its course and have the two sides compete as they are to see who chooses.

 

 

*Is Lare a Hades alt? I can't keep track.

[Guard Dog]

The UN decision to create Isreal was unjust but whats done is done. The people who made the decision are all dead now. There is no recompense from them forthcoming. In the last twenty years Israel has made far more peace ovetures than the Palestinians ever have, and abided by far more brokered peace deals that the Palestinaneans ever have. Israel offers peace, is open to a seperate state, and a terrorist blows up a coffee shop. Or rockets are fired at peoples houses from Gaza. Of couse when Israeli citizens are killed no one gives a damn, but if they try to respond, even if it's just stop the attacks everyone goes nuts. After over sixty years and two all out wars, Israel is not going away. The Palestinians should accept that, take what they can have or leave. Otherwise they will be locked in this same stalemate and cycle of hate until every last one of them is dead or hopelssly impovrished.

 

I always found it ironic how the leadership of Syria, Jordan, Lebannon, et al screech about the poor palestineans but never allow them to enter their borders. Isn't that a little strange?

[Killian Kalthorne]

I can say with good authority that Lare is not a Hades alt. Walsh on the other hand I am not so sure.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Def not a Hades alt, and I'm a bit insulted that you'd even suspect that.

 

Anyway thanks to 10000 years of cultural evolution most people don't think force is the ultimate way of getting things done anymore. So I guess Volourn and his like are a relic of the past and should be ignored.

[Volourn]

"Anyway thanks to 10000 years of cultural evolution most people don't think force is the ultimate way of getting things done anymore. So I guess Volourn and his like are a relic of the past and should be ignored."

 

Did you even bother to read my post? Likely not. You should read it, again. Very enlightening. Might fix your ignorance.

[Lare Kikkeli]

"Anyway thanks to 10000 years of cultural evolution most people don't think force is the ultimate way of getting things done anymore. So I guess Volourn and his like are a relic of the past and should be ignored."

 

Did you even bother to read my post? Likely not. You should read it, again. Very enlightening. Might fix your ignorance.

 

"They stole it just like most lands are stolen. So, to whine that it was 'illegally' taken is laughable."

 

Well judging by that comment you approve of the Israeli settlements on Palestinian land. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Israel is breaking international law by extending their settlements in the west bank, East-Israel and the Golan Heights.

 

I doubt Israel even wants peace, they've got a good scapegoat for all their problems in Palestine.

[Killian Kalthorne]

International law is a joke, Lare.

[Lare Kikkeli]

^^ Yup that seems to be the common opinion held by americans... Most likely because you're constantly breaking it?

[Volourn]

Once again, the so called Palestinian lands are not truly their lands. They were stolen from others so it is hypocritical to whine about them being stolen. Both parties are in the wrong, and both parties have broken their share of international law. Both sides should be ashamed. There is no 'hero' or 'good side' here, bub.

[Walsingham]

^^ Yup that seems to be the common opinion held by americans... Most likely because you're constantly breaking it?

 

Since you're already pre-insulted I can take the first part of my response as read. As if no other country breaks international law! A tiny minority of countries obey it at all. Reason? Laws have to be enforced by unilateral force or by consensus action. Unilateral force is apparently out of fashion, and worldwide consensus is impossible.

[HoonDing]

Once again, the so called Palestinian lands are not truly their lands. They were stolen from others so it is hypocritical to whine about them being stolen.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Once again, the so called Palestinian lands are not truly their lands. They were stolen from others so it is hypocritical to whine about them being stolen. Both parties are in the wrong, and both parties have broken their share of international law. Both sides should be ashamed. There is no 'hero' or 'good side' here, bub.

 

Yeah both parties are to blame and I'm not really anti-Israel or pro-Palestine but I don't see what other choice Palestine has than do what they've been doing. Israel should take the first step and stop acting like mini-USA. But as I said they're probably satisfied with having a tiny enemy that they can blame their problems on and strengten the national spirit when it seems like Israeli citizens are starting to doubt the sense in waging war with all of their neighbours.

 

 

^^ Yup that seems to be the common opinion held by americans... Most likely because you're constantly breaking it?

 

Since you're already pre-insulted I can take the first part of my response as read. As if no other country breaks international law! A tiny minority of countries obey it at all. Reason? Laws have to be enforced by unilateral force or by consensus action. Unilateral force is apparently out of fashion, and worldwide consensus is impossible.

 

Sure lots of countries break international laws. Mostly big countries who feel that they owe nothing to no one and damn everyone else as long as we get what we want. That doesn't make it alright to wage war on false pretenses and treat prisoners of war like we're still living in the 18th century. As I said, 10000 years of cultural evolution has made us to at least make these laws. I guess it'll take us a few more centuries to actually follow them.

[urielrose]

I know it's not suppose to interest you, but all your comments shows complete ignorance of the history and situation of that place.

The u.n did not give Israel to the jews out of the blue, both the arabs and the jews terrorized the english (the arabs even started an all out rebellion against them in 1933-1936) after ww1 the u.n gave an A mandate to the british over israel (meaning, they will withdraw after some years of rebuilding what they conquered and will ready the populace to independence) the u.n plan was to make it a mostly arab country, the jews used all their political powers and strength to build large modern communities in israel at that time, the arabs instead only grubled politicly and harassed the communities, they didn't even wanted to be a nation, most of the arabs in the country didn't even care who will rule them, all they wanted was to herd their sheep and feed their families, with islamic main figures (like haj- amin el-huseeini) propoganda about a new jihad, many young people joined the islamic zeal of terrorizing the land (the jews also used terrorism against the british and the arabs but not as a religious thing, but as a political thing) 20 years later the jews were organized with a semi parlement semi army and political recognition, the arabs, out of ignorance, religious zeal, and mainly political non-caring, didn't have any of those, most of them didn't even wanted to. so when the war broke out they were defeated even though (with the invasion of 4 arab countries) they were better equipped (this changed shortly after the invasion, with major political effort that granted the new jewish state better equipment) so after banning the u.n decision completely (the jews accepted the fact that the arabs will have a state in israel not vice versa) the defeated palestenians, demanded that the u.n will force israel to accept the u.n decision they fought so hard to prevent only a year before. in 1967 israel launched an attack (as response to the arab neighboring nations of invasion) on egypt and jordan (and a little on syria and lebanon) and conquered parts of egypt (which they gave back after the peace treaty 15 years later) syria (which are still an issue between the states) and jordan (which most of the palestenian refugees that stayed out of israel, stayed) the population at jordan came under israely care (which jordan was glad to ,after taking care of them for 20 years) and were given autonomy (which was never granted to them in jordan) 20 years later the refugees decided to became completely independent (but still financialy and technologically dependent) israel refused, because it will mean an arab territorial threat that will cut the jewish state to two parts, that the arab nation will be between ,while surrounded with arab semi hostile states, making a two people state was also out of the question, the demografical status in israel will change meaning that arabs will be the most of the populace and thus turning israel to an arab state, and so ,by conquering their enemies, advancing technologically far beyond any state in the middle east and by becoming the most politicly and militaraty powerfull nation in the middle east, israel designed it's own demise, by creating a body that will eat it from inside and ruin all that she gained in 50 years of hard labor.

your opinion about israel is so far from the truth, i bet you think, this is a barren, camel and sheep infested backdoor country like those of middle africa.

israel is considered to be the number 2 high- tech center of the world, many modern military advances are israelian products, israel has one of the most advanced cities in the world, while most of the population is well educated and almost a third is with an acadamic diploma, israel universites are considered to be in the 100 leading universites in the world. israel is also very western cultured, and acting as an enclave in the islamic undeveloped states.

israel is the target for many islamic religioug terror groups, that took upon them to destroy western civilization, without israel there may be many more suicidal bombs in many western cities. from all over the world military figures are coming to israel to learn this counrty success at blocking the terror, and to learn about it's military success in difficult terms all over the years, israel air-force is considered to be the best combat trained in the world (with most airplane shots and minimum casualties in percentege). the culture is mostly western (more american then anything) with some jewish connections.

so before having an opinion (if any) think about this- with who would you prefere to be: an arab zealous sheperd that will kill you for being modern, or a jewish doctor that developes the next cure for aids?.

no matter what is your opinion, we have a strong army,money, and political powers while the arabs have only oil. no matter what is your opinion, we will chose how the damn future in this damn place ,because we got the power, and we are not afraid to use it. (only a little)

[213374U]

As I said, 10000 years of cultural evolution has made us to at least make these laws.

Yeah. After ten thousand years of cultural evolution (read: constant warring), we have finally learned... PR!!!

 

Don't be too impressed with modernity, though. People are still people.