Dragon Age Origins

[RPGmasterBoo]

If that is indeed why they are doing it(was it also the case with ME?), how do you propose they use their game to help the people oppressed by wars, famine, diseases etc.?

 

Just because you were "more" oppressed, doesn't give you the right to judge other people. The world is not objective.

 

There are tons of ways to raise serious issues in games. Grand Theft Auto for all its juvenile characteristics has a quite scathing social commentary.

That said, raising serious issues is not at all a requirement, games after all are entertainment.

 

I'm not judging the minorities, whoever they are. I'm judging the absurd explanation given by a developer, that reflects a terribly ignorant world view.

Edited August 28, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[Purkake]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're biased.

 

Oh and you wanting war torn Yugoslavia stuff makes you an even smaller minority.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Purkake

[Wrath of Dagon]

Bioware in general is very pro gay rights, also a lot of men like to play lesbian romances, so they put gay romances in the game, what's so strange about that?

[Maria Caliban]

I disagree. Its about appeasing a very vocal and pushy number of fans, which was justified to me by David Gaider himself as being (in a nutshell) an opportunity for oppressed people to play a character they could identify with. Which is all fine and dandy, except for the fact that there are millions upon millions of oppressed people, for reasons much much worse than sexual preference.

 

Coming from a place with a host of issues, each more terrible than the other I fail to see the relevance of Gaider's explanation and I completely fail to sympathise.

 

Okay. We're talking about a thread in which David Gaider was explaining to a very angry gay man why BioWare was *not* obliged to provide romances to everyone. And that demanding same-sex romances from BioWare was, in fact, kind of stupid.

 

As for the very vocal and pushy number of fans: Guilty as charged. I started posting in May of 2004 and one of the first questions I asked was 'will there be a same-sex romance?' I'm pretty certain I've requested a same-sex romance once a month for five years now. However, I have rarely seen you on the BioBoards. I don't think I've seen one thread from you asking for BioWare to cover 'important issues.' That suggests to me that you're really not that concerned about 'important issues' being in Dragon Age.

 

That's the thing. No matter how much BioWare developers know the people in their forums are 1% of the fan base, it's the 1% they interact with on an almost daily basis. If there are issues you feel passionately about, and you want to see them in Dragon Age: Origins 2, then I'd seriously think about campaigning for it.

 

 

Apparently, BioWare should not let FemShep get blue alien nookie until they've finished curing cancer.

 

I would have thought sarcastic comments of this sort were beneath you. I can see where you are coming from, but do try to see my point as well.

 

I don't see your point. Female PCs can have sex with Morrigan or Leliana. Male PCs can have sex with Zevran. Romances in a BioWare game aren't new. Same-sex ones aren't new either. Yes, David sympathizes with gay players, as do a number of other BioWare writers. Moreover, gay players (and straight guys who like to watch girls make out) have given them a fairly simple way of making them happy. So they do it.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Maria Caliban

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're biased.

 

*shrugs* If I am its with good reason. Plus as a student of international relations/politics its my job to read up on these issues daily. Amongst other things I have in a upcoming exam your country as well and the issue of the 1993. laws that took away the citizenship, and voting rights of the 25% strong Russian minority, along with the Narva issue. So, yes this sort of s.hit is all over the place and I feel more strongly about it than I do about gay rights.

[Purkake]

Hey, I'm studying international relations as well

 

Having a reason for being biased doesn't change anything. You have to take a step back and try to look at things from a more objective point of view.

[Maria Caliban]

...yes this sort of s.hit is all over the place and I feel more strongly about it than I do about gay rights.

 

And Dragon Age has an oppressed minority that's forced to take the poorest jobs and have little to no legal rights. It sounds like they're including an issue there.

[Guest Slinky]

Damn, these forums are so much more interesting that bioware's. I wonder do I have any popcorn anywhere

[RPGmasterBoo]

Okay. We're talking about a thread in which David Gaider was explaining to a very angry gay man why BioWare was *not* obliged to provide romances to everyone. And that demanding same-sex romances from BioWare was, in fact, kind of stupid.

 

As for the very vocal and pushy number of fans: Guilty as charged. I started posting in May of 2004 and one of the first questions I asked was 'will there be a same-sex romance?' I'm pretty certain I've requested a same-sex romance once a month for five years now. However, I have rarely seen you on the BioBoards. I don't think I've seen one thread from you asking for BioWare to cover 'important issues.' That suggests to me that you're really not that concerned about 'important issues' being in Dragon Age.

 

That's the thing. No matter how much BioWare developers know the people in their forums are 1% of the fan base, it's the 1% they interact with on an almost daily basis. If there are issues you feel passionately about, and you want to see them in Dragon Age: Origins 2, then I'd seriously think about campaigning for it.

 

I don't see your point. Female PCs can have sex with Morrigan or Leliana. Male PCs can have sex with Zevran. Romances in a BioWare game aren't new. Same-sex ones aren't new either. Yes, David sympathizes with gay players, as do a number of other BioWare writers. Moreover, gay players (and straight guys who like to watch girls make out) have given them a fairly simple way of making them happy. So they do it.

 

Because its not about supporting important issues. Its about "if you're including them include something meaningful, and dont try to justify pure appeasement as a charity of sorts". I appreciate that you have a stake in this, but I don't, in fact i cant relate at all, and hence cant stomach the fact that it was a priority of sorts for the developers. Call me selfish, but since this is about spending money (fairly limited in my case), I don't see myself supporting this sort of content, which as you yourself not ehas been increasing on game to game basis. Games which, plus (in my opinion) are worse with each installment.

[Purkake]

Damn, these forums are so much more interesting that bioware's. I wonder do I have any popcorn anywhere

 

 

It's all Boo, otherwise we probably wouldn't have anything to talk about.

 

@Boo: If you don't want to support that kind of content, don't. Why argue about it?

Edited August 28, 2009 by Purkake

[RPGmasterBoo]

...yes this sort of s.hit is all over the place and I feel more strongly about it than I do about gay rights.

 

And Dragon Age has an oppressed minority that's forced to take the poorest jobs and have little to no legal rights. It sounds like they're including an issue there.

 

That's very good and is a plus of sorts.

 

Let me just note again that the declining quality of their games is the ultimate turnoff for me, all of these things just add insult to injury.

Edited August 28, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[RPGmasterBoo]

Hey, I'm studying international relations as well

 

Having a reason for being biased doesn't change anything. You have to take a step back and try to look at things from a more objective point of view.

 

No wonder you're such an ass

 

 

Greets to a colleague.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Damn, these forums are so much more interesting that bioware's. I wonder do I have any popcorn anywhere

 

 

It's all Boo, otherwise we probably wouldn't have anything to talk about.

 

@Boo: If you don't want to support that kind of content, don't. Why argue about it?

 

Because I help the forums to stay alive?

 

or maybe its a contest with Volourn?

[Purkake]

No wonder you're such an ass

 

Greets to a colleague.

 

I'm just starting.

 

Because I help the forums to stay alive?

 

or maybe its a contest with Volourn?

 

Volourn only comes when you summon him by saying NWN backwards while posting in candlelight.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I think I played a few minutes of that Baldur's Gate on consoles. Don't remember what it was called, but it felt pretty bad.

 

Good thing DA looks nothing like it.

[Purkake]

I think I played a few minutes of that Baldur's Gate on consoles. Don't remember what it was called, but it felt pretty bad.

 

Good thing DA looks nothing like it.

 

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and the sequel.

 

It's pretty much a standard hack n' slash as far as I know.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I think I played a few minutes of that Baldur's Gate on consoles. Don't remember what it was called, but it felt pretty bad.

 

Its an excellent action RPG and very fun to play. Nothing to do with BG at all though, except being set in the city. Its in fact similar to gauntlet from the Dreamcast and you play it coop with a friend hacking and slashing around in well designed dungeons. Its good, mindless fun. With a friend that is.

Edited August 28, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo

[Volourn]

BGDA was a fun game. Anyone trying to compare it the PC games or RPGs is kinda missing the point. It's an action game,m and as an action game it's pretty awesome.

 

 

"Which is all fine and dandy, except for the fact that there are millions upon millions of oppressed people, for reasons much much worse than sexual preference."

 

Hey, your country isn't amongst BIO's target audience. Just deal with it. If your country is oppressed, the people there probably cna't afford video games and probably have more important things to worry about than some silly video game.

[Monte Carlo]

The gay romance issue has been kicked about for so long they needed to just get on with it.

 

People are gay, including people in war-torn countries. What, in the name of f***, is such a big deal about it? Bioware is a company operating out of a western liberal democracy, why is it so difficult to accept that it was inevitable that they would include same-sex relationships?

 

I'm hardly Mister Political Correctness 2009, and I loathe CRPG romances, but if you are going to have them then denying the existence of gay relationships is ridiculous.

 

And, just in case it matters, I'm straight. However, I am proud to be intolerant of intolerance, from whatever direction it comes from.

 

Cheers

MC

[Aristes]

I simply don't understand why they wouldn't include same sex romances. There is probably a large group of folks who would be disgruntled by the option, but the vast majority of them would never know. Hell, Dragon Age will probably never even register on their radar. Of the folks who will play Dragon Age, it probably wouldn't be a problem for the vast majority of them. I hate anything that polices the player. Once they're investing in developing romances in the first place, what difference does it make if they provide same sex romances? The fact that it's a point of discussion is offensive in and of itself because the message to someone who happens to be homosexual is that your sexual preference is so abhorrent to so many people that they cannot even entertain the idea of acknowledging that homosexual relationships exist in a game. And homosexual relationships exists. Gay and lesbian folks are not asking for something that is not part of every community.

 

I know others have already said what I've said here. Just take this post as an affirmation of their position.

[entrerix]

also, someone mentioned already, but it looks like the oppression of a group of people WILL be more of a talking point in the game than gay rights.... so yeah.

 

i support gay people, and oppressed people. and especially oppressed gay people.

 

and i support the hungry. i don't know exactly who they are but I know they are hungry. and some are thirsty too... i think?

Edited August 28, 2009 by entrerix

[theslug]

I find it fascinating albeit frustrating that people even make this an issue. The fact of the matter is taking the time and resources to write gay romances in won't significantly increase sales. It's that simple. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. If there's no gay romance will that stop you from playing? Likely not. Gay gamers don't make up enough of the gaming population or more importantly the target audience to justify the work. Not to mention its not your game so stop trying to shove your ideals unto someone else, don't like it don't play it, etc. The End.

[alanschu]

How much time and resources does it take exactly?

[Volourn]

No more than the 'stereotypical' M/F romances most likely. *shrug* A nice percentage of the BIO fanbase likes romances so they are doing the right thing - giving their fanbase what they want.

 

For me personally, romances mean nothing outside they give me more role-playing oppurtunties.

[Aristes]

I don't think that Bioware should feel compelled out of some sense of political correctness to include homosexual romances.

 

I don't think that Bioware should feel compelled out of some sense of political correctness to refrain from homosexual romances.

 

If their artistic vision encourages them to include homsexual romances, so be it.

 

If their personal morals prevent them from including homosexual romances, so be it.

 

If their marketing team decides that including or excluding homosexual romances, so be it.

 

However, as a fan, I disagree with the notion of other fans trying to prevent homosexual romances in the game. It doesn't harm non-homosexuals in any way to have them included. I can better understand folks clamoring for what they want rather than preventing others from getting what they want. A lot of folks want romances. Cool. Some of those folks will be homosexual. Cool. Homosexual folks who want romances in the game will undoubtedly want homosexual romances.

 

It's really Bioware's decision. Since they've made the decision to include them, I don't think it's much of an issue any more. I actually hate the idea of romances in the game whereas I couldn't care less whether they're romances or not. I think the trees for including romances are more complex, although by how much I'm not certain. It must entail some effort on the part of the design team because dealing with dialogue and CnC always entails some work and extra writing. However, Bioware must think they have the resources and I don't know that including same sex romances will be that much of an additional effort. Romances themselves might be, but since these games have all be going more and more towards an influence system, it just seems to me that it would fold into the same effort.