Dragon Age

[aries101]

Amnesia in PS: Torment actually meant something. Whenever you died, you would wake in on the slap in the mortuary where you started the game. Depending on your Intelligence and Wisdom abilities, you would get access to (even) more memories that would help you to remember your backstory discovered throughput the game; one of the most memorable, create and unique ways to implement death mechanics as well as amnesia in an rpg game, I've seen. And I've not seen it used in this way neither befofe nor after Planescape: Torment.

 

Plenty of games have made use of the amnesia option; none have it as different as PS: Torment did.

[Maria Caliban]

BIOWARE GAME SPOILERS

 

I'm not really.

 

What I'm saying is that the traditional ambiguous origin (which I'll concede isn't necessarily great for story development) coupled with character customisation seems to have been moved on in DA. Hey, that's a decision for Bioware.

 

When you say

[Monte Carlo]

^ Fair enough, but I'm sure even you'll concede the matrix of options you'd take for granted in, say, the BG or IWD series is gone. In those I could make a male human thief with pink hair or a female gnome barbarian with blue skin. Their origin or backstory was ambiguous enough for me to more or less forget about it should I choose (which I usually do). Are these options shallow? Perhaps. Are they my decisions to make? Absolutely.

 

Now I can make a human noble called Cousland who becomes a Grey Warden. Hey, wait a minute, that wasn't actually a choice, was it?

 

I'm sure my pre-determined character can level up how I choose, with skills and stuff.... right? Or are those decisions also getting in the way of me enjoying all the exciting new Bio-Choices on offer?

[Monte Carlo]

^ I should add that the last Bio game I played was NWN1. All subsequent titles haven't tempted me at all. Mass Effect, in particular, seems uniquely designed for me not to want to play it.

[Volourn]

Eh. DA gives more options on your charcetr abckground and people ar ecomplaining that it's more limiting than older RPgs which gave you one defacto character background? WOW!

 

BIO's games continually improve in the RPG department. JE, KOTOR, and ME are all 1 million x the rpg that BG is.

 

Argue all you want that BG is the better game (heck, I might even agree); but as far as role-playing, the newer games win easily.

 

And, BG, also had 'choke points' that you had to go through to complete the game. *shrug* The thing about the DA origins is that they and the chocies you make during them are supposed to effect you througout the game.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Volourn

[Llyranor]

Whatever background you created for your character in BG1 - aside from his/her upbringing in Candlekeep - was as relevant as that of the marine in Doom.

[Maria Caliban]

^ Fair enough, but I'm sure even you'll concede the matrix of options you'd take for granted in, say, the BG or IWD series is gone. In those I could make a male human thief with pink hair or a female gnome barbarian with blue skin.

 

I already said that IWD didn't impose a background on you. However, you couldn't play a gnome barbarian in BG because you'd spent the entirety of your life in the comfortable walls of Candlekeep. You could however have pink hair and blue skin, so I guess Dragon Age truly has robbed you of the ability to create your own character.

 

Their origin or backstory was ambiguous enough for me to more or less forget about it should I choose (which I usually do). Are these options shallow? Perhaps. Are they my decisions to make? Absolutely.

 

You could forget you were a child of Bhaal in BG? If you could do that, then you can forget that you're a human lord or a city elf in Dragon Age.

 

If you

[Purkake]

Their origin or backstory was ambiguous enough for me to more or less forget about it should I choose (which I usually do). Are these options shallow? Perhaps. Are they my decisions to make? Absolutely.

 

You could forget you were a child of Bhaal in BG? If you could do that, then you can forget that you're a human lord or a city elf in Dragon Age.

 

If you

[Maria Caliban]

I'd like to add, I'm not saying you're wrong to prefer sandbox games or games that don't give you a background at all. Neither approch is better, but I definately prefer what BioWare is doing than to something like the Elder Scrolls.

[Monte Carlo]

^ :: Shrugs ::

 

You can be amusingly facetious about what floats other people's boats when it comes to having fun in a game. What's superficial to you is cool to me. Vice versa.

 

Bio is setting out it's stall that this is all about choice and the impact of your decisions. My riposte is that your 'choice' appears to be limited to what suits the author of the game. Lots of people adore the idea of the game as meta-novel where you become a character in it. Bio fans particularly.

 

I'm not, but given that I was told that the second coming, spiritual heir to BG (one of my favourite games ever) was coming down the track I can be forgiven for having higher expectations.

 

Cheers

MC

[Maria Caliban]

My riposte is that your 'choice' appears to be limited to what suits the author of the game.

 

There's no cRPG in which you can make a choice outside whatever suits the author of the game.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Perhaps. Or is it that creating the illusion of freedom / control within those constraints is where the real skill lies?

 

For me, ditching NPC X in favour of NPC Y and visiting the tower of doom before the cavern of challenges, even though the tower of doom is FAR more difficult at this stage in the game is what it's all about. And I'm deliberately playing a sub-optimal, uber-gimped character because that's what I felt like doing at the time. This side-quest is utterly irrelevant to the outcome of the overall plot but allows me to make some hilarious armour and unlocks a couple of easter eggs. Hell, even the soppy romance is so bad it's good. And because it's well designed and immersive and fun, the critical path looks like it's been made out of elastic, not concrete.

 

I'm doubting whether DA:O is going to do much better than 5 or 6 out of 10 on any of these.

[Oner]

*cough* Tower of DOOM level scaled *cough*

[Monte Carlo]

^ CRANK UP THAT DIFFICULTY SLIDER

[HoonDing]

Eh, it is possible to play as a female human noble, right?

 

I'm curious to see the city elf origin. I'm wondering how a servant who skewered some humans (at least, that's the impression I got from reading about it) would be appointed grey warden.

[Gfted1]

Eh, it is possible to play as a female human noble, right?

 

Each origin can be played as either sex.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Gfted1

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, a human noble can be male or female, a warrior or rogue.

[Junai]

Is there an evil option? Can I play the horde and slaughter wardens?

 

My party:

1) Fallen paladin, evil, male human

2) Some short cackling demon servant

3) random horde zombie fodder

4) random horde zombie fodder

5) illusionist/rogue backstabber, chaotic-evil female human

6) brainwashed enslaved ogre mule for carring l00t.

 

And no Manson.. Only lovely lovely Ludwig van.

..

[Purkake]

Is there an evil option? Can I play the horde and slaughter wardens?

 

My party:

1) Fallen paladin, evil, male human

2) Some short cackling demon servant

3) random horde zombie fodder

4) random horde zombie fodder

5) illusionist/rogue backstabber, chaotic-evil female human

6) brainwashed enslaved ogre mule for carring l00t.

 

And no Manson.. Only lovely lovely Ludwig van.

..

 

I'm sure the evil option will boil down to saving the world, but being a jerk about it, or if we're lucky doing a 180 just before the last battle and joining the bad guy.

 

"Go stop the Horde, before the world ends, Gray Warden!"

1. It is my sacred duty to defend the world, the twelve gods will guide my blade.

2. Sure, I'm not really doing anything this afternoon anyway.

3. I hate you and your stupid order, I hope you all burn in the Nine Hells. Ok, I'll do it, but I won't enjoy it.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Purkake

[Morgoth]

Why do I need to join this silly Gray Warden club, when I can just beat whole armies on my own anyway?

[Oner]

So they can boast about having you. And since you're Mr Goody Good, you'll listen to your superiors and kill everyone they tell you to.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Oner

[Morgoth]

Sounds like any other Bioware game then.

[alanschu]

I saw the human noble 'origin' video. And it got me thinking - Bio are gently moving 'traditional' RPGs towards an action-console model in that you don't really get to make a character. In fact, you are choosing a character on a fairly pre-determined arc. In this case you even get your name given to you - Cousland.

 

OK, there are what, six, to choose from? Nonetheless, lets face it, the 'origin' is in fact a story template, and whatever your choice you become a Grey Warden anyway. And Bio are claiming that this gives you more choice? Henry T Ford and the colour options of Model T's springs to mind.

 

And...

 

Does Dragon Age come with a shoe-horn taped to the box?

 

Cheers

MC

 

 

Well quite frankly, I find the games with the blank slate character are rather generic and cliche.

 

 

If this is a sticking point for you, I suggest you stop bothering about the game. You seem pretty intent on not enjoying it, and even if you try to convince us that you'll still give it an honest try, you really won't. You seem so intent on finding ANYTHING to slam about the game, that you're just going to go through the same motions when playing the game, scrutinizing every detail so that you can find something to gripe about. All this instead of actually trying to enjoy the game.

 

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for you.

 

 

The whole Origins thing reminds me of old JRPGs where you choose between figher, monk, black mage, white mage at the start. I like to customize stuff

 

So what's the problem? In DA you'll create your character, give him/her a name. You'll chose a sex, class, and a background for your character. You'll get to decide where you'd like attribute points to go, what skills and talents you'd like to have.

 

 

But this game looks astonishingly linear. You can be a peasant, a ranger or a noble and still the Jedi guy is going to turn up and give you a light sabre. I don't want to be an extra in someone elses story. Yes, I'm a sandbox gamer at heart, I suppose.

 

Here's a tidbit for you. Every Bioware game is quite linear. Baldur's Gate is probably their most linear plot (with a bunch of random exploration if you want to do that). For all intents and purposes, DA is a lot more non-linear than Baldur's Gate. For instance, you don't have to start in Candlekeep (or perhaps Fallout's starting off in Vault 13, or Fallout 2 starting out as the Vault Dweller's decendent, etc).

 

As others have mentioned, the fact that there's a point of common ground where the stories sync up on occasion is common in virtually every RPG. Endless choice = endless development time. Even a sandbox game has choke points in its story (even there's any in from the main story at all).

[Monte Carlo]

Please don't feel sorry for me. I be fine. Honestly.

[alanschu]

Bio is setting out it's stall that this is all about choice and the impact of your decisions. My riposte is that your 'choice' appears to be limited to what suits the author of the game.

 

Well no **** Sherlock. The joys of it being a video game is that EVERYTHING needs to be explicitly coded into the game. If someone didn't think of a choice, then you're ****ed.

 

I'm not, but given that I was told that the second coming, spiritual heir to BG (one of my favourite games ever) was coming down the track I can be forgiven for having higher expectations.

 

Cheers

MC

 

 

What choice did you have in Baldur's Gate. Quite frankly you're either remembering Baldur's Gate incorrectly, or you're a being hypocrite. Nothing escapes you from the fact that you are a Child of Bhall in Baldur's Gate, and nothing stops you from being raised in Candlekeep. All the random exploration in the world doesn't change the fact that the plot in the game is as linear as a straight line is.

 

How Baldur's Gate, one of the games that offers quite literally a stunning lack of choice in terms of character origin as well as plot, is one of your favourite games of all time absolutely baffles me. I guess the pink hair and colour customization of your character just puts it over the top. But I guess because there was a variety of races and classes (afforded simply because it's a game based on AD&D) it somehow allows all this freedom of creation? Would your opinion of the game be that much less if Gorion had given your character a last name?

 

If you want to bitch that you don't think the game will offer the same, non-plot related exploration that Baldur's Gate has and you love then fine. But when you're nitpicking Bioware for creating 6 uniquely different ways to start your character off with unique backstories as being restricting in choice, while claiming that Baldur's Gate with it's single forced character backstory as one of your favourite games of all time, then something is clearly amiss.

 

 

Anyone that thought the story would arc in unique ways and you'd ultimately get 6 significantly different playthroughs based on the origins (i.e. 6 games in one) is just being exceptionally unrealistic.