Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[mkreku]

what the whut? i think your water's gone rad, lad. i didn't say they were PnP games. i said they're based off of, and a natural progression from. which...uh...they are, Vern. and yes, cRPG's do have saving and loading campaigns sure. i guess there's the unspoken and unwritten rule of making choices and living with the consequences. i only re-load if i've hit a button or done something by accident....never because i didn't like the outcome of something i did deliberately...otherwise, i don't see the fun in making choices at all. it's kinda cheating, idn't it?

Yes, you're very hardcore and blah blah. Are we supposed to be impressed?

 

You're clinging onto an abstraction (PnP was made to mimic other worlds, the rules were only there because they had no other way of determining outcomes) made by necessity all those years ago (they didn't have computers powerful/cheap enough back then), which by technology's advancement has been made unnecessary again. We CAN simulate those worlds closer to "reality" now! We don't HAVE to play by old PnP rules anymore! And some of us enjoy being able to go through several possible outcomes of a choice in one playthrough. Imagine that, people having fun within their game!

[Malcador]

what the whut? i think your water's gone rad, lad. i didn't say they were PnP games. i said they're based off of, and a natural progression from. which...uh...they are, Vern. and yes, cRPG's do have saving and loading campaigns sure. i guess there's the unspoken and unwritten rule of making choices and living with the consequences. i only re-load if i've hit a button or done something by accident....never because i didn't like the outcome of something i did deliberately...otherwise, i don't see the fun in making choices at all. it's kinda cheating, idn't it?

Yes, you're very hardcore and blah blah. Are we supposed to be impressed?

 

You're clinging onto an abstraction (PnP was made to mimic other worlds, the rules were only there because they had no other way of determining outcomes) made by necessity all those years ago (they didn't have computers powerful/cheap enough back then), which by technology's advancement has been made unnecessary again. We CAN simulate those worlds closer to "reality" now! We don't HAVE to play by old PnP rules anymore! And some of us enjoy being able to go through several possible outcomes of a choice in one playthrough. Imagine that, people having fun within their game!

 

I'm not sure how experiencing many outcomes in ONE playthrough is a good thing. It demeans your choices and actions throughout the game. To be honest, I'm hard pressed to see how you'd implement that.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yes, you're very hardcore and blah blah. Are we supposed to be impressed?

 

no, but now that you ask....are you?

 

 

but back to you for a minute. no, i'm not clinging to an abstract...again, i'm living with the consequences for my choices. like Malcodor said, doing something differently is what a second play-through is for.

[FabMan_UK]

Second play-throughs are okay, but sometimes you can be playing a goody two-shoes and you see an option to say something or do something 'evil' but also very funny. How can you resist???

 

Hey aren't PnP games based off of the old model playing games, where people would have soldiers on either side battling it out?

 

I think how you play the game is up to you, I've done the mutlple quick saves and quick load approaches, and I've tried the no-reload challenges. They both have their merits but I don't see why any bickering is needed over which is better. However quite a lot of games have a play style where you are almost likely to die on a first play through, or are even expected to die, so they give you lives. Trying a no-reload approach can get frustrating with these, as you can die from a dialogue choice, or walking in a particular spot with no warning to the player.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Second play-throughs are okay, but sometimes you can be playing a goody two-shoes and you see an option to say something or do something 'evil' but also very funny. How can you resist???

 

sure, well...that's different i guess. that's more about curiousity about the game's workings based on a character you'd not have created.

 

 

I think how you play the game is up to you, I've done the mutlple quick saves and quick load approaches, and I've tried the no-reload challenges. They both have their merits but I don't see why any bickering is needed over which is better. However quite a lot of games have a play style where you are almost likely to die on a first play through, or are even expected to die, so they give you lives. Trying a no-reload approach can get frustrating with these, as you can die from a dialogue choice, or walking in a particular spot with no warning to the player.

 

sure, sure. it's not about this is better or worse in terms of gameplay. i just don't see how complaining that you have to reload a game because of a choice you made is a relevant argument.

[FabMan_UK]

sure, sure. it's not about this is better or worse in terms of gameplay. i just don't see how complaining that you have to reload a game because of a choice you made is a relevant argument.

 

As long as there are hints that what you are going to do could get you killed then I think you are right. I'd hate for a dialogue option to be:

Game: Pick left or right.

Player: Erm, Right.

Game: You died.

Player: What??? You piece of s*&$!

 

Those old fantasty books where you rolled a die at certain points to determine the outcome were full of those situations. Plus some older cRPG's had them a lot, thankfully not so much now.

 

I don't mind dying from the choice, just that the possible outcome is clear before making the choice.

[TwinkieGorilla]

As long as there are hints that what you are going to do could get you killed then I think you are right. I'd hate for a dialogue option to be:

Game: Pick left or right.

Player: Erm, Right.

Game: You died.

Player: What??? You piece of s*&$!

 

Those old fantasty books where you rolled a die at certain points to determine the outcome were full of those situations. Plus some older cRPG's had them a lot, thankfully not so much now.

 

I don't mind dying from the choice, just that the possible outcome is clear before making the choice.

 

 

yeah, in FULL agreement.

[Malcador]

sure, sure. it's not about this is better or worse in terms of gameplay. i just don't see how complaining that you have to reload a game because of a choice you made is a relevant argument.

 

As long as there are hints that what you are going to do could get you killed then I think you are right. I'd hate for a dialogue option to be:

Game: Pick left or right.

Player: Erm, Right.

Game: You died.

Player: What??? You piece of s*&$!

 

Those old fantasty books where you rolled a die at certain points to determine the outcome were full of those situations. Plus some older cRPG's had them a lot, thankfully not so much now.

 

I don't mind dying from the choice, just that the possible outcome is clear before making the choice.

 

Reninds me of our GM messing with us by having us open a door and finding a Bloodthirster in a storage room. I agree though, as long as it's evident (not obvious though) that you can get killed through a choice, that's fine. As for reloading, I see no problem with reloading if you die to try again, it gets silly when you do things like, in the Witcher, reloading to give the kid to Shani instead of Triss to see the different outcome.

[Spider]

How much can Obsidian achieve making a full fledged game within a year?

 

2010 could mean late 2010. So that'd mean about another 18 months. Plus it could well be a couple of months into development by now. Could even be more than a couple of months, depending on how they worked.

 

So it could be as much as 18-24 months in the dev cycle. That should be enough.

 

It could of course be as little as 8-10 months as well, which of course is dramatically short.

[Zoma]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

[Daimyo]

I am very glad to see Fallout back in the hands of people who know what to do with it ...

 

Will be watching this closely :D

[FabMan_UK]

I see no problem with reloading if you die to try again, it gets silly when you do things like, in the Witcher, reloading to give the kid to Shani instead of Triss to see the different outcome.

 

You're right, who would do that? -Whistles quietly- Okay so I like pixel bewbs, don't judge me! Actually by that stage I only wanted to see who was the better chick, the non-mage one was such a whiner that I chose the mage chick. So I'm glad I did it. As I was in a very similar real life situation to that. Minus the magic, monsters, fighting, enhanced physical abilities and the kid, but almost identical situation to me.

[funcroc]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

 

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1208521245

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1241475092

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1242814392

[FabMan_UK]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

 

This is true, but Obsidian developers have been doing research for a couple of months, whatever that means... probably going to Las Vegas to get drunk and gamble all their wages away.

[crakkie]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

That's not necessarily the contract with Bethesda. There have also been hints of a fantasy project, and Pete Hines said they've been working with OE on FONV for 'quite a while now'.

 

edit: echo, echo

Edited April 21, 2009 by crakkie

[Malcador]

I see no problem with reloading if you die to try again, it gets silly when you do things like, in the Witcher, reloading to give the kid to Shani instead of Triss to see the different outcome.

 

You're right, who would do that? -Whistles quietly- Okay so I like pixel bewbs, don't judge me! Actually by that stage I only wanted to see who was the better chick, the non-mage one was such a whiner that I chose the mage chick. So I'm glad I did it. As I was in a very similar real life situation to that. Minus the magic, monsters, fighting, enhanced physical abilities and the kid, but almost identical situation to me.

 

Haha.. well no, I meant more than just the..uh..romance aspect. Although that was a poor choice of example I guess, that's not a critical choice. But I just meant the player trying to avoid dealing with consequences by just reloading and doing it all differently. That way you could experience all the outcomes, I guess, but really, you've busted the game up to do that.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

 

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1208521245

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1241475092

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1242814392

 

man, i am so down with this happening. i'm getting like...i'm letting my guard down and just getting excited. stop. STOP!

 

(hey Daimyo!)

[mkreku]

no, i'm not clinging to an abstract...again, i'm living with the consequences for my choices.

Why? Does it make you feel special? Does it make you feel better? Does it make you feel.. hardcore?

[Gizmo]

You're clinging onto an abstraction

In my case the abstraction is why I play; I've no use for a fantasy simulator.

 

(PnP was made to mimic other worlds, the rules were only there because they had no other way of determining outcomes) made by necessity all those years ago

Not by [technological] necessity... It was for complete impartiality.

 

(they didn't

have

computers powerful/cheap enough back then), which by technology's advancement has been made unnecessary again.

You don't need a fast computer to tell the events, you need one to

show

them in bump-mapped 32bit color with dynamic lighting.

 

We CAN simulate those worlds closer to "reality" now! We don't HAVE to play by old PnP rules anymore! And some of us enjoy being able to go through several possible outcomes of a choice in one playthrough. Imagine that, people having fun within their game!

Folks never

had

to play PnP... They wanted to. Its not just about the visuals. Even in 2009 the state of CRPG's is still that a top notch video game's scope doesn't hold a candle to a medium notch PNP campaign.

 

Personally I like the best graphics possible ~until it hampers the actual game~ I don't play games for the graphics and they are the first thing to get cut ~and are not missed.

 

Funny thing happened about three years ago... I found two games for sale that I'd never heard of. One was Oblivion, the other was "

Stone Prophet

"; I bought them both, played them both, and IMO there is not a whole lot of difference except that Prophet is more challenging and it's voice work is better (IMO) ~and the graphics are not as much of a resource hog (and each and every face in the game outclasses those found in Oblivion).

I still play Stone Prophet.

*Also I made the mistake of buying Fallout 3 and Max Payne (1) at the same time, having never played either. I tried them both for an hour each ~and then Fallout 3 sat on the shelf for a month.

 

Second play-throughs are okay, but sometimes you can be playing a goody two-shoes and you see an option to say something or do something 'evil' but also very funny. How can you resist???

That was never a problem ~playing in character (and something to anticipate choosing when playing the next).

 

Hey aren't PnP games based off of the old model playing games, where people would have soldiers on either side battling it out?

They're related, but different, and both still currently made [and played] too.

 

I think how you play the game is up to you, I've done the mutlple quick saves and quick load approaches, and I've tried the no-reload challenges. They both have their merits but I don't see why any bickering is needed over which is better.

The problem I have with "Save anywhere" games (Like Planescape even) is that it encourages 'baby stepping' your path through the game ~and skill checks become meaningless.

 

There is a real need to be able to quit when you must (and return without loosing an hours progress), but without restrictions... you get too many easy outs [like saving in Fallout before trying to plant a bomb on an NPC... and reloading until you succeed ~actions like that should pose a real risk to your character, and be something that they are just good enough to get away with, or incredibly lucky enough to pull off, but it should always come with immutable consequences for failure (and so, be self limiting by design).

 

It'd be nice if a game auto saved at milestones, but let you quit at need and return [later] exactly where you left off. ~Or there's the hard core way ... (like the method used in A.D.O.M. ~that game even crc checks the sav to discourage tampering, and if you die in the game it erases your game).

Edited April 21, 2009 by Gizmo

[funcroc]

former Black Isle veteran Scott Everts is also working on the game.

 

Stayed at Interplay for about 13 years where I worked on over 20 games. Some of the titles I worked on there were Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, Star Trek: Judgment Rites, Stonekeep, Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, & Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2.

 

After that I got a job at Obsidian Entertainment. I worked on Star Wars Knight of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords (say that 3 times fast!) doing interface design & texture cleanup on the PC and XBox version. I then worked on Neverwinter Nights 2 & its expansions Mask of the Betrayer & Storm of Zehir making maps & props. Currently I'm working on Fallout: New Vegas. It's great to be working on a new Fallout game after all these years!

[TwinkieGorilla]

former Black Isle veteran Scott Everts is also working on the game.

 

 

man, this just keeps getting better and better.

[Gizmo]

You hadn't played Max Payne until recently??? What's the matter with you? I can understand why you put Fallout 3 down, that game was unique on release and not many games have sucessfully imitated.

I've a lot of games, but until last year Max Payne wasn't one of them. Fallout 3 is in a class by itself (and I can't point to a contemporary peer ~having not played Mass Effect), but in my case Fallout 3 is like the talented child star from famous parents; There's an unfair expectation that they'll measure up or surpass them. IMO Its like the child chose to sing instead of act, and can never surpass the parents. / Edited April 21, 2009 by Gizmo

[taks]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

That's not necessarily the contract with Bethesda. There have also been hints of a fantasy project, and Pete Hines said they've been working with OE on FONV for 'quite a while now'.

yeah, i have yet to see confirmation that the aforementioned contract and this project are one in the same. JE seems to like to hint so maybe his twitter posts are indicative of a project they started a while ago in hopes of winning the contract?

 

taks

[Wombat]

Can't be in a few months of development considering the contract was signed simply a week or two ago.

 

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1208521245

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1241475092

http://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1242814392

Yes, it was around the same time he stopped updating his BH blog. funcroc easily surpasses me when it comes to use the web as a "research" tool, which is one of our modern daily skills in both works and private lives. Vegas located relatively near Santa Ana, I guess they chose an interesting place relatively handy for researching. In any case, "educated guess" seems to turn out to be just as simple. I don't know why Hines needed to drop hints like that if it's just their Gamebryo engine, though.

 

However, I guess the engine isn't a big problem to me. Talking about Van Buren made I realize what kept me from buying Fallout 3. While I admit that people at Bethesda are talented in their own way, I think I still cannot totally forget about the canceled project. IIRC, a guy at Bethesda, I think it was Peter Hines, said something like they'd like to talk about the ideas while they were developing FO3. So, J.E. Sawyer's insanity passion may have payed off in a way. Also, Feargus and the other ancient elder game-designers, seems to have quite a lot of acquaintances and friends in this industry. In any case, if things go well, fingers' crossed, FO:NV is going to be the first FO game I'll play after these years.

[taks]

It'd be nice if a game auto saved at milestones, but let you quit at need and return [later] exactly where you left off.

most games that do this have pre-determined milestone points but do not allow you to simply quit where you are, at least, you have to go back to the last milestone. kung fu panda on the PS3 does it this way. well, much to my son's dismay, we have been unable to figure out any way to actually save where you are other than pause and come back later.

 

taks