Dragon Age Discussion

[Maria Caliban]

Just doesn't seem like my type of game. Looks so generic. :/

 

... and they're pulling the Jedi/Spectre/whatever was in JE or BG/Grey Warden **** again, but I think we've discussed this enough.

 

 

Same thing happened with Fallout 3. I just looked at the game and thought "I don't get it. What's so awesome about it?".

 

You don't particularly like BioWare games. BioWare has announced a new game that seems to be like their previous ones. You're not excited or interested. Sounds quite reasonable to me.

[Bos_hybrid]

I can't believe people seem to like those videos. I was certain everyone would be like "That looks like CRAP!", but you guys don't seem to be disturbed at all?! Personally I thought it looked absolutely horrible. Bad animations, bad camera angles, atrocious combat, even the interface looked like a complete World of Warcraft-ripoff!

 

I must be really starved for a RPG since I'm still hoping this will be playable.

 

I too am surprised, this is an Obsidian Forum isn't it? Which mean anything with a Bioware name on it is spat on. (Besides BG)

 

But back to the video, I don't see anything 'horrible' but, at the same time I didn't see anything great either, but great graphics like ME isn't what I expect from this game, I expect a deeper RPG and if graphics have to be decreased to allow this, so be it. Combat looks like BG, NWN to me so, meh.

 

Also aren't you the guy that likes Gothic 3? Because two of those things listed by you, bad animations and bad camera angles, are problems with that game.

 

All this talk about game makers putting too much emphasis on graphics, then a soon as one doesn't and focuses(hopefully) on story, characters and length, people start the whining about graphics.

[Morgoth]

Those posters look sexy, espcially the elf mage one.

 

Well, I don't get what people mean about "it looks so generic". Not more "generic" (whatever that means) than PST or Fallout or BG2. I think the graphics design in DA is beauitful, and definitely the best since BG2.

 

@mkreku

Crappy animations? Look at the Gothic series again. Didn't hamper your enjoyment, either, did it? I think the animations were primarily done from an isometric (tactical) point of view, were it isn't so important to show all the small nuances. Of course when you zoom in, it shows...but hey. They said they continue to tweak the animations, and even then if they don't get better, this doesn't annoy me one bit.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Morgoth

[Tigranes]

I too am surprised, this is an Obsidian Forum isn't it? Which mean anything with a Bioware name on it is spat on. (Besides BG) laughing.gif

 

No.

 

Also, what exactly is so bad about DA animations, for those who say so? I'm just curious, since I didn't notice much.

[Monte Carlo]

:: Shrugs ::

 

Mkreku, I'm not a computer graphics / animation mentat. Sure, I don't like ugly games but I'm not expecting everything to look like Crysis, either. DA:O looks like a classic CRPG with decent-enough graphics. If it's stable with good performance then as far as I'm concerned it could actually be a hell of a lot uglier. So no biggie for me, and I suspect many others.

 

As for death, I completely agree with Killian. In BG2 I fought a number of key battles where I was down to single figure hit points and my last healing potion (Demogorgon springs to mind) plus I lost a treasured NPC who had been chunked - no prospect of raise dead. The choice was mine - pick up his kit, sell it and move on or re-play that battle again and see if I could do it without losing any party members.

 

I moved on, it was actually a bit of a wrench after that amount of investment in the character. It was, however, rewarding because it provided an extra challenge. And, for people who don't like playing that way, there's the difficulty slider (which is better than Easy / Core / Hard because it's scaleable).

 

I accept that I might be in a minority here, but I would appreciate having a permanent death option, or the option to switch on death penalties such as those proposed by CrashGirl.

 

Cheers

MC

[Tigranes]

By the way, despite what.... somebody (?) said last page, I think there is an important difference between having to replay the entire battle and to replay from the moment you saved in the middle of it, and the former does have value (unlike you know, making you save before a 30 minute exposition that is directly followed by a boss battle, Final Fantasy, you bastard.)

 

Namely, a good battle in a party RPG should always be a tactical set piece, a tactical encounter... and, provided that the designers aren't morons and don't give you pointlessly long battles, the only reason for saving in the middle is that you have basically got a favourable condition. i.e. the dragon failed the will save, or you got a critical hit on your first blow, or simply that you made it alive after knocking off half of the enemy. The only reason for saving is that you feel you have 'completed' a certain percentage of the encounter and don't want to ever have to replay that part again. But for me it's a lot more fun trying out different ways to get past the encounter as a whole if one approach fails, instead of breaking it up into small increments where you save after each kill.

 

...That, and the NWN engine had this wonderful thing about everything moving around when you reload during combat anyway.

[Volourn]

"What's so awesome about it?".

 

If you aren't interested in the agme,a nd think it's crpapy why worry about it or post in this thread?

 

 

Anyways, game looks solid. It'll be another BIO games so it works for me.

 

I'm also in the 'death should be permenant' camp. No mercy for the dead or dying!

 

Gameplay pretty much looks like NWN series. Works for me!

[Morgoth]

There's Part2 of the walkthrough video available: Click

 

Looks very solid.

 

Just ignore the stupid speaker "there's always challenge behind every corner", "every choice is up to you".

[Maria Caliban]

I too am surprised, this is an Obsidian Forum isn't it? Which mean anything with a Bioware name on it is spat on. (Besides BG) laughing.gif

 

No.

 

Also, what exactly is so bad about DA animations, for those who say so? I'm just curious, since I didn't notice much.

 

1. They're slow. Everything looks very lethargic.

2. The walking/running animations are strange. Watch the way the mage sort of waddles forward, so sometimes the fighter seems to skate across the floor.

3. I'm not fond of the color pallete in use and the dominance of brown and neutral tones. I prefer something a bit more vibrant like Diabo III, especially as I'll be playing a great deal of the game from an 'isometric' perspective. I assume the reason they have the baddies bathed in red jelly/large selection circles when you mouse over them is that otherwise in a large fight, you wouldn't be able to tell your teammates from the enemy.

 

 

That said, BioDevs on the forum have talked about those problems, pointed out that it's still a work in progress, and that the latest build addresses some of those issues.

[Azure79]

The game does look solid and no doubt I'll enjoy playing through it.

 

I like the quick switch between 3rd person view and isometric. Its what I always try to do with NWN2, but always feels slightly awkward. It looks more fluid in Dragon Age.

 

Looking forward to it.

[Morgoth]

The UI does look pretty simple as well. No doubt the conversion to consoles should be less a headache then. Though I haven't seen screens of the character window and inventory yet.

[Purkake]

Those posters look sexy, espcially the elf mage one.

 

Well, I don't get what people mean about "it looks so generic". Not more "generic" (whatever that means) than PST or Fallout or BG2. I think the graphics design in DA is beauitful, and definitely the best since BG2.

 

Sorry, but Planscape is pretty much as far as you can go from generic. They took common fantasy themes and turned them on their head or removed them completely. There are no swords(save for two), no elves or dwarves, TNO doesn't wear armor, good and evil creatures live together, the steampunkish architecture...

 

I wouldn't call DA generic without having played the story first, but having knights in armor, elves, dwarves, mages and dragons looks pretty generic from a first glance.

 

EDIT: the posters are pretty cool ineed, I like the Alienage(wth?) Elf.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Purkake

[deganawida]

I can't believe people seem to like those videos. I was certain everyone would be like "That looks like CRAP!", but you guys don't seem to be disturbed at all?! Personally I thought it looked absolutely horrible. Bad animations, bad camera angles, atrocious combat, even the interface looked like a complete World of Warcraft-ripoff!

 

I must be really starved for a RPG since I'm still hoping this will be playable.

 

If you can zoom out a fair bit then it shouldn't look so bad. It's no worse than Neverwinter Nights 2, right? I can put up with bad animations and graphics if the story is good.

 

Well, I'd argue that the animations are worse than NWN2's. Look at how slowly they swing their weapons; my 87-year-old grandmother moves faster than that. NWN2's characters actually had the characters swing their weapons decently, and they did more dodging, blocking, and parrying. Watching this video, I kept wondering if Alistair had some sort of nervous twich, but then I realized that it was his shield bash. Seriously? You tap the guy with your shield without bracing your arm and putting your weight behind it, and you expect me to believe that's enough to knock the guy down? Good grief. Was this the game where the devs went out in the parking lot with nerf bats and trash can lids to get a feel for "real combat"? I guess that this delay is a good thing; maybe they can speed up some of those animations.

 

On another point, can someone enlighten me on the whole JE-reference made? I didn't even leave the tutorial area for JE, because I found the combat boring and had a pretty good idea of how the story was going (why does Bioware seem to like surprise bad guys?). This whole "makes JE seem tame" thing has me lost.

[Volourn]

"There are no swords(save for two), no elves or dwarves, TNO doesn't wear armor, good and evil creatures live together, the steampunkish architecture..."

 

None of these (well except the character of TNo of course) is unique to PST. Fantasy have been doing this for years espicially no elves/dwarves and good and evil living together.

[Slowtrain]

I can't believe people seem to like those videos. I was certain everyone would be like "That looks like CRAP!", but you guys don't seem to be disturbed at all?! Personally I thought it looked absolutely horrible. Bad animations, bad camera angles, atrocious combat, even the interface looked like a complete World of Warcraft-ripoff!

 

I must be really starved for a RPG since I'm still hoping this will be playable.

 

 

lol. Dude, what's up?

 

Bad animations? You are telling me that a good crpg has good animations? That bad animations make a bad crpg? Come on. You're older than that.

 

Atrocious combat? On what planet do great crpgs have great or even good combat? Fallout, Bloodlines, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, all the IE games, Daggerfall, Arcanum, I could go on and on. All these games were great crpgs or crpg hybrids that had horribly flawed combat. COmbat has little or nothing to do with the quality of a crpg.

 

System Shock 2 and Bioshock both had equally bad combat. WHy is SS2 so much better? Because there is a whole rest of the game going on that makes combat only a small part, whereas in Bioshock the lame FPS combat is all there is.

 

Are you going to seriously compare Fallout's overhead, TB combat to Jag 2 or XCOM? Or course not. Its a crpg; it doesn't need the kind of combat depth the latter games had.

 

Daggerfall had FAR worse combat than MW or Oblivion, plus it was butt ugly to boot, but it was a far far far better crpg than both MW and Oblivion combined.

 

The IE games? Is history now glorifying the IE games has some sort of riveting real time with pause high-fantasy combat simulation? Click, drink potion, click, drink potion, click, cast spell, drink potion, click? But it didn't make the games any less enjoyable, did it?

 

Arcanum? Combat? lolollolol. Still a great, though buggy, crpg nonetheless.

 

 

Camera Angles? Every games fails camera angles except first person ones.

 

Interface? I love it when interface complaints come up. I wish I had 10 euros for every complaint I've ever heard about the interface in every single game ever.

 

 

COme on, mkreku, such pointless negativity is not normally you. Usually you are the one railing at everyone else for their negativity.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The only main thing I have to criticize Bioware for is the formulaic writing and plotline they have in their games. That is my main beef. In many of their games its the same basic storyline just in different skin. They do make it fun to play, but it would be nice if they take more risks in their story telling.

[Morgoth]

The only main thing I have to criticize Bioware for is the formulaic writing and plotline they have in their games. That is my main beef. In many of their games its the same basic storyline just in different skin. They do make it fun to play, but it would be nice if they take more risks in their story telling.

Agreed. While I still enjoy the "typical" Bioware narrative, I'd wish a company like Bioware which enjoys a lot of freedom would take more risks in that regard. I also wish they'd use a bit more imagination for their quests. The copy & paste stuff starts to wear off.

But then again, the larger a company, the harder it is to change things internally.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Morgoth

[Llyranor]

That, plus their unappealing gameplay since NWN, has bumped all upcoming Bioware titles to rental status for me at best. Good thing they're getting console releases!

[Morgoth]

That, plus their unappealing gameplay since NWN, has bumped all upcoming Bioware titles to rental status for me at best. Good thing they're getting console releases!

Well, define gameplay. I mean, for the sort of story-telling style Bioware does (and for some reason never wants to fundamentally change), you don't need different gameplay. NWN stuff worked fairly fine, so there's no need for them to treat new waters there. Not that I say that is how it should always be, but the NWN-style gameplay is the least thing that bothers me about DA.

Still, Bioware ought to come up with fundamentally (no, not revolutionary) different stuff. I mean, don't they have the urge to make something different for a change?

[aries101]

As for the animations, both Georg Zoeller and David Gaider have commented on them on the Bio boards - in the DA Forums. They both have said that the videos we've seen were clearly taking from a earlier build. Georg Zoeller said that the animations were about 1.5 or 1.0 slower than they currently are in the game right now. The only gripe I have is that you have to scroll down a list to get the characters to move, fight etc. Why can't I just click on the character(s) - and then have them do what I choose they should do? This isn't DA: GRAW after all - or maybe it is...

[Morgoth]

What do you mean "scroll down a list"? You either select the portrait, or the character I presume. Probably window-drag is supported as well?

[Llyranor]

That, plus their unappealing gameplay since NWN, has bumped all upcoming Bioware titles to rental status for me at best. Good thing they're getting console releases!

Well, define gameplay. I mean, for the sort of story-telling style Bioware does (and for some reason never wants to fundamentally change), you don't need different gameplay. NWN stuff worked fairly fine, so there's no need for them to treat new waters there. Not that I say that is how it should always be, but the NWN-style gameplay is the least thing that bothers me about DA.

Still, Bioware ought to come up with fundamentally (no, not revolutionary) different stuff. I mean, don't they have the urge to make something different for a change?

Bioware can keep their RTwP combat system all they want. It worked pretty well in BG1/2. The problem is, regardless of what type of combat system they've been trying for since then (NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME), they've all been dumbed-down drivel.

[Purkake]

That, plus their unappealing gameplay since NWN, has bumped all upcoming Bioware titles to rental status for me at best. Good thing they're getting console releases!

Well, define gameplay. I mean, for the sort of story-telling style Bioware does (and for some reason never wants to fundamentally change), you don't need different gameplay. NWN stuff worked fairly fine, so there's no need for them to treat new waters there. Not that I say that is how it should always be, but the NWN-style gameplay is the least thing that bothers me about DA.

Still, Bioware ought to come up with fundamentally (no, not revolutionary) different stuff. I mean, don't they have the urge to make something different for a change?

Bioware can keep their RTwP combat system all they want. It worked pretty well in BG1/2. The problem is, regardless of what type of combat system they've been trying for since then (NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME), they've all been dumbed-down drivel.

 

Yeah the tactical aspect of pausing loses it's importance when it is easier to just send everyone rushing out with whatever melee weapon they happen to have.

[Moatilliatta]

since the general opinion is that combat is boring and people shouldn't have to be interested in it.

 

Of whose general opinon do you speak? Is this what the devs have said?

 

The developers have said nothing like that.

Read my post again, I never atributed those words to the developers. All I did was give my opininion of how the game will probably turn out and griping a bit about how gamers in general view RPG combat, based on the kind of combat that devs deliver at least.

 

The part where I referred the devs was that I believe they once said that it is possible that we'll get something quite tough outside of the plot-critical path, or something like that.

 

@Crashgirl

IE combat is "good" because everything after it has been utterly ridiculous in terms of both fun and complexity.

 

Ontopic:

I've heard from someone who have tried it (granted only for some 10-20 minutes) that the only real problem is with the control and that it feels like they could fix that before it comes out. I'm positive that it's gonna be at least a decent Bio-RPG and those that don't like it are the ones who don't like Bioware in general.

[Slowtrain]

Has anybdoy heard or do they know if this is going to be Bioware's final PC game?