TSL Restoration Project: The Phantom Deadline, READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING

[refuse]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

[Foamhead]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

 

 

I guess my original response was a little too spot on for the mods tastes.

 

You obviously are either on the beta team or are insanely devoted to them. Regardless, since you had to change my words in order to present me in an unfavorable light I think you have pretty much written my answer for me.

[Darth InSidious]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

 

 

I guess my original response was a little too spot on for the mods tastes.

 

You obviously are either on the beta team or are insanely devoted to them. Regardless, since you had to change my words in order to present me in an unfavorable light I think you have pretty much written my answer for me.

 

There is no 'refuse' on the beta team.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Remember to keep the discussion civil.

[Darth Mortis]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

 

 

I guess my original response was a little too spot on for the mods tastes.

 

You obviously are either on the beta team or are insanely devoted to them. Regardless, since you had to change my words in order to present me in an unfavorable light I think you have pretty much written my answer for me.

 

For the record refuse didn't flag your post I did, for no other reason than I felt that the language and tone of your first post was totally unwarranted. Had another member posted the same things about or to you I'd have reported them.

 

I do not know anyone who works on the TSLRP, but I am sure that constantly posting negative comments about their work is hardly a great way to get on the team - even if they were looking for someone. Which they are not.

As far as they know you are simply making wild claims in the hope that you can get an early version of the mod, which you will then release claiming it as your own. They've already had one leak, effectively ruining some 4 years of hard work, so I seriously doubt that they will let anyone they don't know can be trusted anywhere near the mod - no matter what help they may offer or claim to be able to provide.

[refuse]

First off, I am not a member of any mod team, nor am I modder myself. I am not 'insanely devoted' to any team, you can look into my past record of posts in this forum and you might even realise that I am consistently critical of TG's progress. The difference is that there are better ways of wording your criticism without being crass. You will also note that I am not begging and name-calling to get attention.

 

Secondly, you make a lot of claims and avoid providing any clear answers. In fact your 'arguments' are equivalent to those of a five year-old, resorting to name-calling, accusations and diverting away from answering anything. I didn't want to say it first time around I saw your posts about hiring a team, but yeah, I agree with Darth Mortis and it seems that you only want to get your hands on a newer beta. What your intentions are (to play for yourself, redistribute it with your name on it, or whatever) doesn't interest me the slightest, but I do find it curious how you insist on trash-talking TG. Even if you are legit, do you really think they would want to work with you having that attitude?

 

Finally, I had nothing to do with the editing of your posts. I have no idea what your original post was like, but you should probably be more careful with the language you use.

Edited March 4, 2009 by refuse

[Foamhead]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

 

 

I guess my original response was a little too spot on for the mods tastes.

 

You obviously are either on the beta team or are insanely devoted to them. Regardless, since you had to change my words in order to present me in an unfavorable light I think you have pretty much written my answer for me.

 

For the record refuse didn't flag your post I did, for no other reason than I felt that the language and tone of your first post was totally unwarranted. Had another member posted the same things about or to you I'd have reported them.

 

I do not know anyone who works on the TSLRP, but I am sure that constantly posting negative comments about their work is hardly a great way to get on the team - even if they were looking for someone. Which they are not.

As far as they know you are simply making wild claims in the hope that you can get an early version of the mod, which you will then release claiming it as your own. They've already had one leak, effectively ruining some 4 years of hard work, so I seriously doubt that they will let anyone they don't know can be trusted anywhere near the mod - no matter what help they may offer or claim to be able to provide.

 

 

Look, I appreciate where you are coming from but let's keep things in perspective. It is just a game mod done by hobbyists for a product they do not even own. Maybe this is just me but I wouldn't care if someone "stole" my half finished mod so that they could make their game break and crash every ten seconds. You need to re-read my posts because I never trashed them, although I did make some cutting comments to Darth Windu, mainly with regards to his attitude and not the game itself. They claim they are doing this for the fans etc... but their refusal to accept help that would greatly accelerate the process to me is a contradiction of that statement. And on top of that, merely for suggesting I might take up finishing the project without their endorsement got nasty childish remarks thrown my way by people on their team. Regardless I made a second offer today and either they will accept the help or they won't, but they are not a professional design studio that I am about to "prove" my intent to. They do not own this game ergo it's content can't be stolen and their fears are moot in that regard. Saying anything on my part about doing this mod myself when I should have just shut up and kept this to myself was a mistake. In any case I'm not going to drag this board down anymore by hammering this topic to death.

[Darth InSidious]

If I were to start such a project I would not tell anyone until it was done because I don't believe in getting peoples hopes up, and life being what it is I never know when I might be prevented from finishing the project myself. The last thing this community needs is a second let down, and I would rather not have my house torched. My not personally giving a rats behind about this mod is also a consideration, although I do care that the community deserves to have their patience rewarded.

 

That's right, altruism isn't dead yet.

 

I am basically in the "Do I really wanna invest my time and money in this" phase and I will have decided at the end of the month. If I do decide to finish it then it will be quietly and without announcement until it is finished.

 

That's a funny understanding of the concept of altruism you seem to have. Sounds more like you want to come off as some sort of holy benefactor to save the 'community' from another let down. As for 'torching' your house, you must really have a big idea of yourself to think that. Blatant plagiarists and rip-offs have been dealt with much less and there have been many more letdowns in 'the community' than simply waiting for this particular mod to fully materialise.

 

On the one hand you say you don't want to raise false hopes, but on the other you mention on more than one occasion how you are going to hire a crack-team of programmers to do the mod. You say you want to keep it secret, but then you go on about being shot down by TG for not accepting your alleged deus ex machina help. What's the point of that if you don't want to raise false hopes and sympathy for yourself? Lame.

 

 

I guess my original response was a little too spot on for the mods tastes.

 

You obviously are either on the beta team or are insanely devoted to them. Regardless, since you had to change my words in order to present me in an unfavorable light I think you have pretty much written my answer for me.

 

For the record refuse didn't flag your post I did, for no other reason than I felt that the language and tone of your first post was totally unwarranted. Had another member posted the same things about or to you I'd have reported them.

 

I do not know anyone who works on the TSLRP, but I am sure that constantly posting negative comments about their work is hardly a great way to get on the team - even if they were looking for someone. Which they are not.

As far as they know you are simply making wild claims in the hope that you can get an early version of the mod, which you will then release claiming it as your own. They've already had one leak, effectively ruining some 4 years of hard work, so I seriously doubt that they will let anyone they don't know can be trusted anywhere near the mod - no matter what help they may offer or claim to be able to provide.

 

 

Look, I appreciate where you are coming from but let's keep things in perspective. It is just a game mod done by hobbyists for a product they do not even own. Maybe this is just me but I wouldn't care if someone "stole" my half finished mod so that they could make their game break and crash every ten seconds.

I suspect might feel rather differently after working on it for four years.

[Meshugger]

Stolen work? 4 years down the drain?

 

You are approaching this from a wrong perspective fellas, you should be glad that there's a common interest in what you are doing and people are willing to help by lending knowledge/or doing work themselves for free.

 

I say it again, using close betas for projects that aren't producing any revenue now or in the future, basically freeware, is counterproductive and always will be.

 

Also, you guys should better spend your time with internal training for a temporarly replacement for Dashus and whatnot. Move forward, learn more, try to get several buildmanagers, anything but doing nothing.

 

This wouldn't even be an issue if there wasn't a public beta or whatever you want to call it.

[The Yeti of 66]

5 year development lol

Welcome back to the party Bokishi. I'd offer you a drink, but those ran out 4 years ago during the rush.

[Hassat Hunter]

-Offers to make a TSLRP of his own-

 

Do it already... sjeesh. Or do we have to whine to you about being slow and lazy aswell?

[Guest PoziomyPion]

TSLRP is good only for internet drama

But seriously, why this modteam treats they work like some EA, hope they won't put some DRM when they finally release the mod.

I mean, as somebody stated before, it's freeware, based on OBSIDIAN's work, there's absolutely no need to hold on to it for a couple of years <sic!> like some elitists. Make a freakin open beta, just look at BG2 mods, they do this all the time and complete their work a bit faster.

Edited March 5, 2009 by PoziomyPion

[cogadh]

I love the way everyone assumes that if the beta were open it would somehow magically make the mod progress faster. Sure they might have hit the 1000 bugs found mark a bit sooner than they actually did, but it doesn't mean they would have fixed those bugs any quicker.

Edited March 6, 2009 by cogadh

[Bokishi]

5 year development lol

Welcome back to the party Bokishi. I'd offer you a drink, but those ran out 4 years ago during the rush.

 

Wow aren't you a blast from the past yeti!!

[refuse]

I love the way everyone assumes that if the beta were open it would somehow magically make the mod progress faster. Sure they might have hit the 1000 bugs found mark a bit sooner than they actually did, but it doesn't mean they would have fixed those bugs any quicker.

Still, what has taken the team 6 to 12 months could have been accomplished in say 3 to 6 in terms of bug-hunting. I don't think a public beta would necessarily speed up the process, not as much as if they took on-board more experienced modders anyway. What appears to be lacking is any real consistency in the volume of work completed for the past year or so.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm still waiting for it, and Kotor2 is still installed on my old pc in the event it is released someday.

 

Look on the bright side - by the time it does come out, for some of us at least, it'll have been so long since we played Kotor2 that the game will seem almost brand new again, even without the mod additions.

[refuse]

You're probably right on that one. I haven't played any of the games, for well over a year now. Mind you, the upcoming Brotherhood of Shadow mod for KotOR looks interesting and reason enough to get back into it.

[Darth_Windu]

I mean, as somebody stated before, it's freeware, based on OBSIDIAN's work, there's absolutely no need to hold on to it for a couple of years <sic!> like some elitists.

It's their decision to do what they want with their work. Sure the source is Obsidian, but it is TG who has put the time and effort into finding all of the lost material; making sense of it; and putting it all back together in a functional state.

 

At the same time because all of the source material is readily available to those who want to find it, as TG did, there is NOTHING to stop another team from doing a project such as TSLRP.

[Sharen the Exile]

Look on the bright side - by the time it does come out, for some of us at least, it'll have been so long since we played Kotor2 that the game will seem almost brand new again, even without the mod additions.

I remember replaying Kotor 1 about 2 years since my last playthrough and it's been almost like playing the game for the first time. While I of course new the general plot already, I didn't remember most of the quest, not to mention the smaller ones. Unfortunately, I played TSL so much (along with modding) that I doubt it'll be the case here

[Tex Willer]

Look on the bright side - by the time it does come out, for some of us at least, it'll have been so long since we played Kotor2 that the game will seem almost brand new again, even without the mod additions.

I remember replaying Kotor 1 about 2 years since my last playthrough and it's been almost like playing the game for the first time. While I of course new the general plot already, I didn't remember most of the quest, not to mention the smaller ones. Unfortunately, I played TSL so much (along with modding) that I doubt it'll be the case here

 

I last played this game in January 2006, so, whenever this mod comes out, it will be like playing from scratch again.

[Meshugger]

Maybe a time to set a deadline so a "whenever" actually might exist?

[Deraldin]

Look on the bright side - by the time it does come out, for some of us at least, it'll have been so long since we played Kotor2 that the game will seem almost brand new again, even without the mod additions.

I remember replaying Kotor 1 about 2 years since my last playthrough and it's been almost like playing the game for the first time. While I of course new the general plot already, I didn't remember most of the quest, not to mention the smaller ones. Unfortunately, I played TSL so much (along with modding) that I doubt it'll be the case here

 

I wish I could do that. There are very, very few games in my collection that I can replay after years and not remember just about everything that I accomplished the last time through. It's sucks so very much to not be able to re-experience a story again no matter how long ago it was. I might not be able to recite everything from scratch, but once I'm back in the game it all comes flooding back. I seriously envy people that can leave something for a year, come back and have everything seem fresh to them again.

[refuse]

Well I'm sure that doesn't really include major aspects of the plot, but rather sub-plots and parts that were vague first time around... So yeah, you might forget stuff like

HK's

and

Mandalore's history of owners/adventures

, but you won't ever forget that

you are Revan in K1

, or that

Kreia is the mastermind in K2

etc, you know the big twists that totally blew your mind first time around (assuming you didn't see it coming or were told)... Well, not unless dementia starts kicking in, in the year 2059! :D

Edited March 14, 2009 by refuse

[Darth Mortis]

Don't forget that the TSL will add new missions, and therefore new aspects to plots, that were missing first time around. Sure, the basic plot will still be the same but these changes will add extra dimension to elements of that which have not been seen before, and tie up most (if not all) of the questions that were left hanging in the shipped game.

 

Even if you can recall everything that happened in the game as it was, it seems clear that the changes are large enough to make a replay with the mod a mostly 'new' experience regardless of how often or how recently you played the game.

[Scarletguard]

I don't know if Dashus would be happy with me telling the public what he said to us, so I'll not divulge. Dashus will make known when he... feels like it, I guess.

 

On the other hand, and I'm not sure I should be telling you this either, but there's something else moving right now concerning the mod. Hopefully, if all goes well, you should be noticing something in the near-future.

 

 

Though those of us looking forward to the TSLRP would love to have some updates, only one person besides the beta-testers deserves an explanation on the lack of updates and that's Killerbob, the TSLRP site administrator. One could argue that she might owe the forum members an explanation of what's been going on but I won't be exploring that avenue of conversation here.

 

I am sympathetic to real life concerns that might be keeping this project from release. However, in not releasing updates in a timely manner on what might be holding up progress, I understand completely (while not condoning) why the "fanboys" are practically flaming the board to get some information. By promising updates and not delivering, you reap what you sow.