I would like to see some Deus Ex atmosphere in AP

[Pidesco]

I only played parts of the first one and the plot and characters did not impress me. The gameplay was good fun, though.

 

You played "parts" of a MGS game? Blasphemy!

 

 

MGS games aren't known for their PC ports, and I've been an almost exclusive PC gamer for many, many years.

[Tigranes]

Whether you love or hate MGS, it most definitely is not 'aware' and it is too self-indulgent for its own good (which is what happens when you let a prodigal child loose in the fields of cash). Maybe it's improved a lot in 3 and 4, but I couldn't stand how cool and important it seemed to treat itself. Sort of like the effect you'd get if you took Final Fantasy VII, made the summon CGI sequences five times as long (which they, heh, did in the next iteration), and then started inserting epic in every FMV.

 

But then, I don't think I have an affinity to certain genres, like sci-fi. Deus Ex's story (admittedly, didn't quite finish it) just left me feeling "yawn, another evil multinational organisation of doom" for most of it, as did Beyond Good & Evil.

[Hell Kitty]

The MGS series has always mixed deadly seriousness with extreme goofiness, but that's pretty common in Japanese stuff rather than being specific to this one series, and it's easy to see why people wouldn't like this. If you think that MGS is playing it straight the whole time, what with it's pants-pooping characters, then you're just plain wrong.

 

If you ignore all the intentional silliness, and just offer up the opinion that the story is silly, well sure, that true of most games (and comic books).

[Pidesco]

The MGS series has always mixed deadly seriousness with extreme goofiness, but that's pretty common in Japanese stuff rather than being specific to this one series, and it's easy to see why people wouldn't like this. If you think that MGS is playing it straight the whole time, what with it's pants-pooping characters, then you're just plain wrong.

 

If you ignore all the intentional silliness, and just offer up the opinion that the story is silly, well sure, that true of most games (and comic books).

 

 

When I was talking about the self inflicted silliness I wasn't referring to the comic relief bits, but rather to the oh-so-serious plot and writing which seemed really kind of awful.

[Hell Kitty]

The MGS series has always mixed deadly seriousness with extreme goofiness, but that's pretty common in Japanese stuff rather than being specific to this one series, and it's easy to see why people wouldn't like this. If you think that MGS is playing it straight the whole time, what with it's pants-pooping characters, then you're just plain wrong.

 

If you ignore all the intentional silliness, and just offer up the opinion that the story is silly, well sure, that true of most games (and comic books).

 

 

When I was talking about the self inflicted silliness I wasn't referring to the comic relief bits, but rather to the oh-so-serious plot and writing which seemed really kind of awful.

 

If you're going to criticize something for taking itself so seriously, you can't just ignore all the times it doesn't, and MGS isn't a serious series with the occasional comic relief moment, it's chock full of standard cartoonish comic book stuff. Deus Ex, with it's hodge podge of conspiracy theories, plays it straight the whole time, MGS does not. Do you really think the combination of seriousness and cartoonishness and juvenile humor and breaking of the fourth wall is some kind of accident the creators aren't aware of? In a time when developers strive to hide the fact that their games are games all in the name of immersion, MGS happily accepts the fact that it's just a game, and pokes fun at this fact. At times MGS takes itself far more seriously than most, but it also takes itself far less seriously than most.

 

Ultimately I think labeling something as "unaware of how silly it is" is a worthless criticism, because it relies on knowing how the creator/s feel about their own work.

[Morgoth]

MGS4 had a serious theme, but didn't take itself too serious. It just had the alright feel to it.

 

After the briefing of a mission for humanities last hope to succeed...

 

Snake: "Somebody got a smoke?"

 

I mean... LOL?

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I only played parts of the first one and the plot and characters did not impress me. The gameplay was good fun, though.

 

You played "parts" of a MGS game? Blasphemy!

 

 

MGS games aren't known for their PC ports, and I've been an almost exclusive PC gamer for many, many years.

 

Okay, but MGS games are absolutely meant to be taken as a whole, particularly in terms of story. I really don't think it's fair to rag on the characters and story when you haven't even played all the way through a MGS title.

[Pop]

I've played through all of them (not the retconned PSP titles, but the major ones) and yeah, the dialogue is poorly written, and the characterization is 99.9% monologue-based. Grom greatly gripes about the campiness of Sarevok, and it makes me wonder if he's ever seen Col. Volgin, or Liquid Snake. He would be beside himself.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Pop

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I haven't played them, but I did watch a lot of walkthroughs and got to understand the story. Badly in need of an editor, yet still incredible in terms of story and cinematic scenes (Rex vs Ray ).

[Tigranes]

If you think that MGS is playing it straight the whole time, what with it's pants-pooping characters, then you're just plain wrong.

 

That's fair enough, and it is a lot more enjoyable when MGS makes fun. I just felt that if you jsut sit down and play it, then most of your playing experience is that 'straight ball', and I couldn't stomach it. Got to say I never managed to get close to finishing a single MGS though, so perhaps my experience is skewed?

 

MGS4 had a serious theme, but didn't take itself too serious. It just had the alright feel to it.

 

After the briefing of a mission for humanities last hope to succeed...

 

Snake: "Somebody got a smoke?"

 

Actually, that's a part of Solid Snake's overflowing indulgent cool. Except I didn't really find it very cool.

[Llyranor]

Can love bloom in a battlefield?

[Morgoth]

Can Llyr be enjoyed with bloom on his face?

[Humodour]

No One Lives Forever 1 showed me that you can still have an awesome spy game (with as many RPG elements as you want) without needing Deus Ex's gothic atmosphere.

 

So while I loved Deus Ex 1, I'm confident they can pull off their own unique (not necessarily dark, gothic, or serious) atmosphere for AP and still make a great game. That doesn't mean they will, but they've got a good chance.

 

They just need to make sure they market AP as a serious game (even if it isn't). Otherwise they'll suffer the same problems NOLF1 and Torment did: appearing too weird to people who've never played them. Honestly, the cover art of PS:T made me almost not buy it, and the cover art for NOLF1 is the reason I only got round to playing it in 2008 (long after it stopped making revenue I suspect).

[Mr. Fob]

Hey everyone,

Been lurking these boards for a while now and after reading this thread I decided it was time to share my humble opinion with the world.

That is, that neither NOLF nor DX really have the kind of atmosphere I hope for in AP (though they are magnificent games, each of them). NOLF is just too light & bright whereas DX is too science fiction oriented. In AP I want to feel like I am in the here and now, dealing with real and serious problems but with the over portrayed (sometimes cliche-ish) wit and cunning of the fictional spy setting. Comparisons are the Bourne movies (or also Spy Game if you will), the Splinter Cell games, or sometimes even 24.

As far as the articles and interviews I read go, it doesn't look like I'm gonna be disappointed by the Obsidian guys.

So what I wanted to say is, I hope they don't put in too many outside influences. That would also make sure that we'll see a really unique game and setting.

[Rhomal]

Dear diary,

 

Today I crossed off another title from my dwindling list of games I want to play. I found out that they misspelled Thornton "Thorton" so I can't like this game anymore. My reasons might not be logical to some but at least my drama queen self will take my little temper tantrums to another part of the board now.

 

Sincerely,

R.

 

PS: I asked mkreku to the prom but he would only go out with me again if he could dress up as the butch this time. *sigh*

---

 

On a side note mkreku I fail to see how my uncertainly for the theme/mood of the game equates to 'drama queen' or how that is not a valid indicator to choose a game. So I suppose all the folks who passed on FO3 because it didn't feel like the 'real fallout' are drama queens too? I invite you to go over to NMA an post that. I'll grab the popcorn... I have been called many things but seriously. LOL

 

Then again I have to take into account the maturely level of these boards.. heh

Edited January 10, 2009 by Rhomal

[Humodour]

On a side note mkreku I fail to see how my uncertainly for the theme/mood of the game equates to 'drama queen' or how that is not a valid indicator to choose a game. So I suppose all the folks who passed on FO3 because it didn't feel like the 'real fallout' are drama queens too?

 

Obsidian isn't Bethesda, and even Deus Ex 1 and Torment had off-putting moods before I played them, so have a little faith.

[Tigranes]

Yawn.

 

Does anyone really think AP will be just like NOLF or Deus Ex?

 

IMO what we know at the moment suggests a "the world is screwed up but you might as well have a glass of wine and some pizazz on the way" approach. Would suit me just fine.

[Humodour]

Yawn.

 

Does anyone really think AP will be just like NOLF or Deus Ex?

 

IMO what we know at the moment suggests a "the world is screwed up but you might as well have a glass of wine and some pizazz on the way" approach. Would suit me just fine.

 

It's called having a social life that relies heavily on drinking alcohol.

[Rhomal]

On a side note mkreku I fail to see how my uncertainly for the theme/mood of the game equates to 'drama queen' or how that is not a valid indicator to choose a game. So I suppose all the folks who passed on FO3 because it didn't feel like the 'real fallout' are drama queens too?

 

Obsidian isn't Bethesda, and even Deus Ex 1 and Torment had off-putting moods before I played them, so have a little faith.

 

As I said I want to support obsid and my mind isn't closed but the impression I get thus far isn't doing much for me. But like I said post release, which will be sometime this year, we all will have a much better idea of the style and type of game this will be.

[Calax]

Velvet assassin sounds like it's going to be similar to deus ex in that you don't have to kill everyone you come across.

[Rhomal]

sounds like it's going to be similar to deus ex in that you don't have to kill everyone you come across.

 

huh never heard of it...

 

*Goes to do some googling...*

[Morgoth]

Velvet assassin sounds like it's going to be similar to deus ex in that you don't have to kill everyone you come across.

Except that Velvet will be utter crap.

 

I know this is unrealistic and not the way of an agent, but are there ways to disguise yourself that buys you some time before an enemy detects you? Or do they open fire on sight every time?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Why do you say that? It looks to me it might be good.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Why do you say that? It looks to me it might be good.

 

It's possible, but I'm not holding my breath. The gameplay videos I've seen looked pretty much like Splinter Cell with less polish. Given that even the SC franchise itself has moved in a new direction, I'm skeptical of games that look like imposters.

 

It seems to play as follows: old school stealth mechanics -> gratuitously violent CQC animation -> old school stealth mechanics -> gratuitously violent CQC animation -> . . . .

 

Don't get me wrong, I love gratuitously violent CQC animations, but my suspicion is that the emphasis is on the 'old school stealth mechanics' part.

[Goran]

One of the best elements in Deus Ex atmosphere and gameplay is level design. Being able to pass through the ventilation systems, through the sewer, over the rooftops, swimming under the city and finding other alternative paths. Because of it, you are limited only by your play style, there are no better and worse solutions. Deus Ex responds on how you want to play it and it encourages you to find your way of solving the problem. That makes it one of the most intelligent games ever made. So, what can be used in Alpha Protocol? Complex level design with multiple paths and attention to details. Non-linear skill based action gameplay which responds to your play style. Many gadgets and weapon customizations. Non-linear story, good dialogue system and story telling.