Could Bethesda outsource Fallout to Obsidian?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

If I'm full of crap as you say then explian to me why Obsidian isn't making KOTOR3 when it's obvious they wanted to badly. Heck, they admitted to beg... err... asking LA fror them to make KOTOR3.

 

Fact of the matter is if KOTOR2 was as successful as LA wanted it to be, Obsidian would be working on KOTOR3 right now... or it might even be released.

 

*shrug*

You kinda answer your own question. Obs isn't making K3 because La doesn't want them to.

[Volourn]

"You kinda answer your own question. Obs isn't making K3 because La doesn't want them to."

 

Yeah, but the question remains why. Poeple in this thread say I'm full of crap; but they haven't given a reason why LA would say no to a KOTOR3 developed by Obsidian other than 'MMOs make more money' which isn't neccessarily true espciailly consideirng LA's own failed SW MMO that collapsed (despite the fact it had lots of surbscribers).

[Gorth]

You kinda answer your own question. Obs isn't making K3 because La doesn't want them to.

That was much better than anything I could ever think of saying

 

There is a bit more to the history though. LA Games back then had gotten the ultimatum (together with a number of other of Lucas' subsidiaries) that they had to become financially viable and stand on their own legs. No more uncle Lucas to bail them out every time they screw up. LA had to make cuts, both on deadlines, ambition levels and number of games in development in order to meet those demands.

 

They seem to be doing well finanically now though, but the Kotor franchise as such is stone dead. It is after all called "The Old Republic", not "Knights of the Old Republic".

[Zoma]

Any idea who owns the Wasteland IP at the present?

 

I rather prefer Obsidian pick up that IP and create their own apocalyptic game instead of creating a FallOut for Bethesda. Considering what Bethesda had done to Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth(Butchered the gameplay, delayed the release until Headgears went bankrupt due to no flow of revenue) and some Star Trek IPs, nu uh. No way.

 

Grab Wasteland instead and create another competitive genre against Bethesda's Fallout 3.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I think it's quite obvious LA and Bioware want to force KOTOR fans into paying monthly subscriptions for the MMO, so no K3. They said themselves the MMO replaces K3.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Considering what Bethesda had done to Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth(Butchered the gameplay, delayed the release until Headgears went bankrupt due to no flow of revenue) and some Star Trek IPs, nu uh. No way.

First, Cthulhu is a fantastic game. Second, Bethesda had nothing to do with developing it, it was all Headfirst, and all the delays were their fault as well. Bethesda did do a really crummy job of marketing the game, as in no marketing at all. Probably just a sexier box cover would've doubled the sales.

[Volourn]

"as in no marketing at all."

 

False.

[Zoma]

The initial design of Cthulhu involved inventory and was made specifically for PC. Bethesda demanded change to simplify it and geared it towards console instead. Headfirst then had to radically remove much of the gameplay and change of the existing engine so that the XBox could run it.

 

The game was completed long long before, but Bethesda delayed it because they wanted simultaneous release in both the states and Europe. I think the game was delayed for almost a year if memory serves right.

 

The situation is almost the same as Ossian studios that involves delays, but due to different reasons. Hopefully Ossian managed to secure their next project while waiting for the Mysteries of Westgate to find its release.

[Whipporwill]

Any idea who owns the Wasteland IP at the present?

 

Brian Fargo's InXile, according to Wikipedia.

[Zoma]

Oh well.

 

There's always Arcanum.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Ooooh, steampunk RPG?

 

HELL YES!

[Amentep]

Some random thoughts (or misconceptions) I had:

 

I thought InXile only licensed Wasteland (and Bard's Tale) from EA?

 

Headfirst spent so long developing CALL OF CTHULU I was surprised it actually came out. Given the rumoured problems in its long development (well before Bethesda became the publisher), I'm not surprised it came out with problems.

 

And I thought KotOR 3 was ultimately nixed because of the refocusing of the entire LA video game lines (and the decision to ultimately back The Force Unleashed).

[Volourn]

"And I thought KotOR 3 was ultimately nixed because of the refocusing of the entire LA video game lines (and the decision to ultimately back The Force Unleashed)."

 

So.. why chosoe a whole new SW game instead of a proven commidty like KOTORs eries? Hmm.. Simple.. LA didn't think it be worth it finanically comapred to their other options (Force Unelashed and KOTOR MMO).

[Hell Kitty]

Headfirst had a whole bunch of sequels planned before DCotE even came out. Two for Xbox and/or PC and one for PS2. Their problems weren't due to Bethesda, they simply bit off way more than they could possibly hope to chew.

 

"And I thought KotOR 3 was ultimately nixed because of the refocusing of the entire LA video game lines (and the decision to ultimately back The Force Unleashed)."

 

So.. why chosoe a whole new SW game instead of a proven commidty like KOTORs eries? Hmm.. Simple.. LA didn't think it be worth it finanically comapred to their other options (Force Unelashed and KOTOR MMO).

 

Yeah, as much as folks like to come up with all sorts of conspiracy theories as to why a company isn't making whatever it is they want them to make, it's business.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Hell Kitty

[Whipporwill]

Some random thoughts (or misconceptions) I had:

 

I thought InXile only licensed Wasteland (and Bard's Tale) from EA?

 

Found this: 2003 Gamespy Interview with Brian Fargo

 

GameSpy: Do you potentially have access to any other IP from Interplay's past, or be interested in working on it?

 

Brian Fargo: Well normally I wouldn't comment on it, but because of the public records of it ... We've also secured the Wasteland trademark. And there's no issues with that. That was actually kind of a funny story. Konami got the Wasteland mark and I went to Konami and asked what they were doing with it. They were using it as one of their umpteen-million Yu-Gi-Oh! characters, like Wasteland Rick or something crazy like that. And I said "Can I use it?" and they said "Oh no, we want to use it as one of our many characters." And finally they decided that they're really not going to exploit it anymore so they let the mark lapse and I stepped in and filed it and now it's been granted to me.

[mkreku]

Fact of the matter is if KOTOR2 was as successful as LA wanted it to be...

So.. how's Jade Empire 2 coming along?

[Monte Carlo]

Could Bethesda outsource Fallout to Obsidian?

 

I'm not a business school graduate, but let me ponder this question anyway.

 

You've just spent a great deal of blood and treasure taking on a dormant, controversial, not-very-easy-to-understand IP. The fan base hates you. The mainstream's response to Fallout is, by and large, "Huh?" and nobody really seems to rate your ability to pull it off based on your history of sandbox fantasy games that look nice but are full of cardboard NPCs.

 

In the real world, we call this a risk.

 

Anyhow, you release your game and guess what? By and large, people love it. Gamers who were sceptical have been magnanimous in admitting they were wrong and extend their respect. Hell, you even turn a profit. In particular, the console crossover works and is pulling in the dollars. The franchise is alive and well and a potential cash-cow. In the office you pop open some champagne and, not unreasonably, pat yourselves on the back.

 

What do you do next? Hmmm.

 

Well I'll tell you what I'd be unlikely to do, and that's offer up my new-found and hard won success to a third party to keep some backwoodsmen fans happy.

 

 

Cheers

MC

[Calax]

Could Bethesda outsource Fallout to Obsidian?

 

I'm not a business school graduate, but let me ponder this question anyway.

 

You've just spent a great deal of blood and treasure taking on a dormant, controversial, not-very-easy-to-understand IP. The fan base hates you. The mainstream's response to Fallout is, by and large, "Huh?" and nobody really seems to rate your ability to pull it off based on your history of sandbox fantasy games that look nice but are full of cardboard NPCs.

 

In the real world, we call this a risk.

 

Anyhow, you release your game and guess what? By and large, people love it. Gamers who were sceptical have been magnanimous in admitting they were wrong and extend their respect. Hell, you even turn a profit. In particular, the console crossover works and is pulling in the dollars. The franchise is alive and well and a potential cash-cow. In the office you pop open some champagne and, not unreasonably, pat yourselves on the back.

 

What do you do next? Hmmm.

 

Well I'll tell you what I'd be unlikely to do, and that's offer up my new-found and hard won success to a third party to keep some backwoodsmen fans happy.

 

 

Cheers

MC

... I could only see Bethesda outsourcing the Fallout brand to Obs under limited conditions. Generally those conditions run along the lines of bethesda acquiring Obs and either shutting it down as its own house or letting it run as its own company but still it has to be under the bethesda umbrella. The only other way I could see a Fallout being done by Obs would be if Bethesda wanted to have a different take on the same material (see Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and such). and even then Obs hasn't shown itself to be very much about other game types other than RPGs.

 

the only reason a franchise is made by two different developers is if the franchise is owned not by the developers themselves but by the publisher. the most recent examples of this are the Guitar Hero, and Call of duty franchises. where some of the games are made by one developer but that developer escapes into the wild after a few years so the publisher not wanting to give up the cash cow, turn around and have a new developer come in and take over. Of course Call of Duty's developer came back from their safari and promptly shot the moon. Can they repeat with Call of Duty 5?

[Volourn]

"So.. how's Jade Empire 2 coming along?"

 

Has a higher chance of being made than KOTOR2 at this point. L0PL But, yeah, all quiet on that front so apprantly it wans't successful enough. At least yet.

[Lare Kikkeli]

Why does Obsidian have a spotty track record? They've released three successful titles. They might not have been huge blockbusters, but I doubt they failed to meet expected sales numbers.

 

Kotor2 was a steaming pile of bugs that maybe had a good game under them somewhere, ditto for NWN2, at least for 6 months after release and in some ways still. I haven't played MotW since it's D&D and I'm sick and tired of 3E D&D but even if it's good, it's still just a single good expansions pack. Not exactly convincing.

[Dagon]

"So.. how's Jade Empire 2 coming along?"

 

Has a higher chance of being made than KOTOR2 at this point. L0PL But, yeah, all quiet on that front so apprantly it wans't successful enough. At least yet.

 

Yep, you are 100% correct. Kotor 2 already exists.

And I hope for something completely new from obsidian and not KOTOR3, it would be nice for them to create WH40k RPG or WHFR RPG though.

[Morgoth]

"So.. how's Jade Empire 2 coming along?"

 

Has a higher chance of being made than KOTOR2 at this point. L0PL But, yeah, all quiet on that front so apprantly it wans't successful enough. At least yet.

 

Yep, you are 100% correct. Kotor 2 already exists.

And I hope for something completely new from obsidian and not KOTOR3, it would be nice for them to create WH40k RPG or WHFR RPG though.

Yeah, something "completely new", by making a WH40K game...riiiiiiiight.

 

Back to Kotor: Kotor 2 sold very well, so I don't see why LA shouldn't do a deal with Obsidian again, sometime in the future. Right now they're too busy on focusing on TOR, and probably another in-house project. After all, LA only chooses a limited amount of deals with developers because every SW project needs a lot attention and support from LA. Maybe LA just doesn't currently has the free ressources to support both TOR and a Kotor3? Maybe after TOR is done, we might see a KOTOR3 from Obsidian? Sometime by 2015 for Xbawks 720 and Playstation 4 perhaps?

[Nightshape]

The initial design of Cthulhu involved inventory and was made specifically for PC. Bethesda demanded change to simplify it and geared it towards console instead. Headfirst then had to radically remove much of the gameplay and change of the existing engine so that the XBox could run it.

 

The game was completed long long before, but Bethesda delayed it because they wanted simultaneous release in both the states and Europe. I think the game was delayed for almost a year if memory serves right.

 

The situation is almost the same as Ossian studios that involves delays, but due to different reasons. Hopefully Ossian managed to secure their next project while waiting for the Mysteries of Westgate to find its release.

 

The game was developed over a very long period of time, whatever the reason for the delay, it most certainly will have been completed before the game shipped.

 

I had some contact with one of the programmers who worked on the game before he started working there (He mention that he was starting work there on a cthulu game), the game was in development from about 1999/2000(potentially earlier, but I would say 1999) and as it didn't see release till 2005 I doubt headfirst were at fault in that respect. a 6 year dev cycle is very long for such a game... Anyroad, it's just a sad tale of game development really...

[Amentep]

"And I thought KotOR 3 was ultimately nixed because of the refocusing of the entire LA video game lines (and the decision to ultimately back The Force Unleashed)."

 

So.. why chosoe a whole new SW game instead of a proven commidty like KOTORs eries? Hmm.. Simple.. LA didn't think it be worth it finanically comapred to their other options (Force Unelashed and KOTOR MMO).

 

To be honest? I thought it was because The Force Unleashed was going to be an action game, which tends to be a bigger market than most RPGs.

 

Yeah, sales could be a factor, but sales doesn't have to be the reason for not making a sequel.

 

Headfirst had a whole bunch of sequels planned before DCotE even came out. Two for Xbox and/or PC and one for PS2. Their problems weren't due to Bethesda, they simply bit off way more than they could possibly hope to chew.

 

They were also over the same time period they were developing CALL OF CTHULU, developing a Deadlands RPG/Shooter hybrid game.

 

Headfirst seemed to have sunk a lot of money into both games before they had a publisher.

 

Yeah, as much as folks like to come up with all sorts of conspiracy theories as to why a company isn't making whatever it is they want them to make, it's business.

 

Yup, but there are a lot of games that sell well that never see a sequel (or another sequel) and sales isn't the factor.

 

 

Some random thoughts (or misconceptions) I had:

 

I thought InXile only licensed Wasteland (and Bard's Tale) from EA?

 

Found this: 2003 Gamespy Interview with Brian Fargo

 

GameSpy: Do you potentially have access to any other IP from Interplay's past, or be interested in working on it?

 

Brian Fargo: Well normally I wouldn't comment on it, but because of the public records of it ... We've also secured the Wasteland trademark. And there's no issues with that. That was actually kind of a funny story. Konami got the Wasteland mark and I went to Konami and asked what they were doing with it. They were using it as one of their umpteen-million Yu-Gi-Oh! characters, like Wasteland Rick or something crazy like that. And I said "Can I use it?" and they said "Oh no, we want to use it as one of our many characters." And finally they decided that they're really not going to exploit it anymore so they let the mark lapse and I stepped in and filed it and now it's been granted to me.

 

Very interesting. But that's about the Wasteland trademark, allowing them to title stuff "Wasteland" without being sued by Konami (or other rights holders). Doesn't seem to be about the IP rights to the Wasteland game...

[Magister Lajciak]

I thought KOTOR 2 sold pretty well. The more likely reason for the lack of KOTOR 3 is that LucasArts wants to channel more people from the franchise into their SWOR MMO - people who would not be interested in it otherwise, particularly if the KOTOR story was concluded by a third game in the series.