Why is ME better/worse than other Bioware games

[Nick_i_am]

Not the best combat in the shooting genre (it's weaker than Gears of War, which it tries to emulate), but the handson combat (I played with no autoaim) beats the snot out of the click and wait combat of KotoR.

[Volourn]

"Not the best combat in the shooting genre"

 

That's because it is an Action RPG; not a shooter or in the 'shooting genre'.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Not the best combat in the shooting genre (it's weaker than Gears of War, which it tries to emulate), but the handson combat (I played with no autoaim) beats the snot out of the click and wait combat of KotoR.

If you want better combat, play Half-Life 2. If you want a better RPG, play just about anything.

[Volourn]

"If you want a better RPG, play just about anything."

 

Not BG that's for darn sure.

[Wrath of Dagon]

If you want better combat, play Half-Life 2. If you want a better RPG, play just about anything.

 

Yeah, that nulifies the fact that I enjoyed the game, having played HL2, Gears of War, Deus Ex, KotoR1/2, BG1/2, Fallout1/2 and Icewind Dale1/2 before it. There's just no way I could play all those games and still enjoy Mass Effect for what it is.

I never said it's not enjoyable for what it is, an average shooter with pretty cinematics. I don't see where your post even disagrees with my statement, just with the strawman argument you made up yourself and attributed to me.

[Nick_i_am]

I fail to understand how ME's plot is any better than time traveling lizards. They start off with the whole "Ancient Race Behind It All" schtick, and then suddenly reveal that it isn't an ancient race that's responsible for everything, but rather an ancienter race...

 

Also, character development is still the same forced, mechanical crap they've done in previous games.

 

Yeah, that was my point in both cases, same old biocrap, but in the scifi setting with the high production values it matters a lot less than normal.

 

I never said it's not enjoyable for what it is, an average shooter with pretty cinematics. I don't see where your post even disagrees with my statement, just with the strawman argument you made up yourself and attributed to me.

 

see

 

Fact is, this is the ONLY bio game that I havn't had to force myself to finish, which is a massive step up on its own. If you didn't like it then judge all you want, but trying to force your 'you should have just done this' opinons are kind of irrelivent to someone who's already finished and enjoyed the game.

 

That is to say, those games were good at what they did, but I LIKED the fusion. If you didn't, and that was your only point, then that's grand.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[Pidesco]

I don't think ME is a reflection of a new direction for Bioware, though. In fact, it seems to me like the logical progression from Bio's previous games. It's basically Kotor with slightly better combat and higher production values.

 

For me, the technical improvements over previous games did nothing to lessen the impact of the bad writing and design. If anything, it just made all of Mass Effect's problems stand out more. The more it looks like an Hollywood production, the more it brings out the fact that everything else is still incompetent, even when compared to a run of the mill, Hollywood action movie.

[Nick_i_am]

Indeed, for much of the plot planets it was very evident, and I wouldn't be talking about it nearly so favorably if it weren't for a very well presented (if slightly liniar) ending.

 

I don't mean a new direction in general for bio though, but by not only making it console-centric (which has been done before) but introducing a completely new (for the genre) form of gameplay it took a risk with it's existing fanbase.

 

I can't say I wouldn't have liked the game to be more liniar though, to cut down on the fluff, and doing so wouldn't even need to detract from the RPG elements, it just needs to be streamlined. In this way i'd say that comparing it to the likes of BG is somewhat unfair since it's a very different beast which still tried (and failed) to appeal to it's oldschool fans as well as attract new ones.

 

Far from a perfect game, but more than enough to have me interested in a (refined) sequel. Moreso, it has given me some interest in the potential of Dragonage.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I never said it's not enjoyable for what it is, an average shooter with pretty cinematics. I don't see where your post even disagrees with my statement, just with the strawman argument you made up yourself and attributed to me.

 

see

 

Fact is, this is the ONLY bio game that I havn't had to force myself to finish, which is a massive step up on its own. If you didn't like it then judge all you want, but trying to force your 'you should have just done this' opinons are kind of irrelivent to someone who's already finished and enjoyed the game.

 

That is to say, those games were good at what they did, but I LIKED the fusion. If you didn't, and that was your only point, then that's grand.

My point was that ME is a decent if unspectacular shooter, and a crummy RPG, not to tell you what you should play. In fact my original post wasn't addressed specifically to you at all. As far as fusion, I agree that having character and equipment upgrades in addition to the combat makes it more fun, but that's about it.

 

Edit: Yes, I see I did quote you originally, so perhaps it could be understood as telling you what to do, but that's not really what I meant.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Wrath of Dagon

[Hurlshort]

I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it. They really felt like two very similar games. To me it would be like loving squash and hating Zucchini. What, is it the color?

[Volourn]

"an average shooter"

 

Hard for it to be that since it's not a shooter. It's an Action RPG.

 

 

"a crummy RPG"

 

better RPG than most RP0Gs including BIO and Obsidian's so called ones. cough* BG *cough* *cough* IWD *cough*

 

 

"I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it."

 

Espciially since ME is 100x better than KOTOR.

 

 

"lessen the impact of the bad writing and design"

 

Check the role-playing section for my comment on this.

 

ME = THA awesome

 

ME > KOTOR + BG + PST

Edited October 8, 2008 by Volourn

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it. They really felt like two very similar games. To me it would be like loving squash and hating Zucchini. What, is it the color?

They're nothing alike, the fact that you say this probably means you don't like KOTOR.

 

Quests - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Characters - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Dialog - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Art design - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Story - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

 

Leveling up and equipment were also inferior in ME. Is that enough for you?

[qt3.14159]

I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it. They really felt like two very similar games. To me it would be like loving squash and hating Zucchini. What, is it the color?

 

Actually, what made me "meh" about the whole thing was just how little interaction you had with your supposed romantic interest. While the romance story lines never really went *anywhere* in K1 or K2 (especially if you're female) at least there was some nice build up. With Kaidan it was... here's a story, "I like my women more adventurous", here's another story, "I'm getting a vibe... are you?" Well, we can't act on it, maybe later.... oh hell, screw later, let's do it!!!

 

I know that around these parts it's sissified to like romance in a game... but really, as sad as it may be, it's definitely my favorite parts.

 

The rest of the ME gameplay was fine... but I didn't do even one of the side quests, to be honest. So I didn't get bored going from planet to planet "exploring". At least not after the first one.

 

Oh, and another thing, ME looked like crap on my computer. I have a new Dell XPS laptop with an nvidia 128 mb card, so I should have had decent graphics, but people's head's were always shaped wrong, and had really bright spots on their faces where the lighting was wrong. I figure it was my hardware, but it *shouldn't* have been.

[Volourn]

"Quests - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Characters - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Dialog - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Art design - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Story - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap"

 

L0L but, no. Maybe reverse that, and you ar ein the right direction; but KOTOR isn't complete crap. But, ME is awesome.

[Pidesco]

I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it. They really felt like two very similar games. To me it would be like loving squash and hating Zucchini. What, is it the color?

They're nothing alike, the fact that you say this probably means you don't like KOTOR.

 

Quests - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Characters - Kotor's were great, ME's were crap

Dialog - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Art design - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

Story - Kotor's was great, ME's was crap

 

Leveling up and equipment were also inferior in ME. Is that enough for you?

 

 

I guess you are right regarding equipment and leveling up. But other than that? No.

[Gorth]

Hey, this split thread button actually worked as anticipated!

[newc0253]

"Not the best combat in the shooting genre"

 

That's because it is an Action RPG; not a shooter or in the 'shooting genre'.

you know, even a broken clock is right twice a day and this time even Volo is actually half right. why would anyone in their right mind describe Mass Effect as a shooter? I played it on the 360 and not even a console controller in my hand could delude me into thinking that.

 

Volo is, of course, not entirely right: Mass Effect is a straight up CRPG, not an Action RPG - at least as we understand games like Diablo, Dungeon Siege or Titan Quest as Action RPGs.

Edited October 8, 2008 by newc0253

[newc0253]

I don't think I'll ever understand how any fan of KotOR can play ME and dislike it. They really felt like two very similar games. To me it would be like loving squash and hating Zucchini. What, is it the color?

i find the Mass Effect hate bewildering. Maybe if your first love is the Star Wars universe, i can maybe see how a KOTOR fan would be disappointed by ME.

 

But often i was playing Mass Effect, i could have sworn i was back playing KOTOR, especially when the corridors of the Citadel look identical to any random spaceport in either KOTOR game.

 

ME is KOTOR sans lightsabers and wookies.

 

either that or KOTOR is ME without a cool space buggy.

 

really KOTOR fans, let go of your hate of ME. it is the path to the dark side. more importantly, it makes you like quite silly.

[Volourn]

"Mass Effect is a straight up CRPG, not an Action RPG"

 

It's an Action RPG; because player physical ability plays a large role in the combat. Unlike, say BG where stats alone determine whether you hit/kill the enemy; player targeting plays a big role. Hence the action part. (unlike with the real time).

 

With Diablo at least, your character stats effect the outcome to a much greater degree. Same with DS, IIRC. Haven't played TQ.

[Maria Caliban]

You're both wrong: It's a dialogue RPG. The first since Planescape. The player's epic quest to wade though endless waves of conversation is a wonderful metaphor for the PCs epic quest to drive the MAKO around mostly barren planets, which is, of course, all symbolic of the ever present Reaper menace, and I'm sure we're all aware that all these elements combine (like Voltran) to paint a picture of man

[Volourn]

"It's a dialogue RPG"

 

[Nightshape]

Not the best combat in the shooting genre (it's weaker than Gears of War, which it tries to emulate), but the handson combat (I played with no autoaim) beats the snot out of the click and wait combat of KotoR.

 

I prefered it to GoW... Just felt better in my opinion.

[Nightshape]

*snip*

 

I hate to agree with you, but ME is certified F****** AWESOME!11!!!11!1!!!!!!!1!!

[newc0253]

It's an Action RPG; because player physical ability plays a large role in the combat.

every time i hear that definition trotted out, the dumber it sounds.

 

think about it: you could have a CRPG which had almost zero combat in it, but so long as it had one fight, and that fight involved a combat mechanic that was partly based on the player clicking at the right moment, it would qualify as an Action RPG under that loopy definition.

 

by contrast, you could have a CRPG with BG's combat mechanic but zero story and just involved walking from location to location, killing monsters, collecting phat l00t and levelling up. by the same loopy definition, that wouldn't be an Action RPG, even though the game is nothing but combat plus treasure.

 

Mass Effect's combat mechanic has little bearing on the game, just as the Witcher's does. Both games quite obviously belong in the same category of story-driven CRPGs like BG or Torment, but are nonetheless regularly mislabelled as 'action' RPGs all because fanboys insist on parroting out some retarded definition they read on RPG Codex.

[SirPetrakus]

What I hated about ME wasn't the dialogue, the quests, the length, the characters, the battle mechanics, anything. What I hated was bugs. I could play everything just fine visually, no crashes, no screen freeze, but I could NEVER fix the goddamn sound, NEVER! I asked around, looked here and there, readmes, patches everything. The most helpful and constructive answer I got was "you're doing it wrong!", well thanks for answering the 25 billion dollar question, but I kinda figured that out myself.

 

I don't think it's a bad game, but it lacks impact, the "oh 5|-|!7" factor. No matter how hard I tried I could never get immersed in it. Mute mode also sucked, but I did get to play it at a friend's PC, WITH sound, and the feeling didn't change at all. Like most Bio games, ME fails to give you a rush of excitement, like I said it's not bad, it's just missing that little extra something to push it over the top. I didn't get chills playing it, I wouldn't be thrilled to get to the game's main menu, anxious to start the game, it didn't work that much for me.

 

Someone else might have enjoyed it more, and it's their God given right too, but it just didn't do for me what other games have done, always IMO.

 

What's with the action/RPG? You point, you click, therefore it's an action game! It's supposed to be an RPG, it works like an RPG, it was promoted like an action/RPG because it combines shooter elements. In that sense, yes, it is an action/RPG, aimed to both shooter fans and RPG fans. What's the big frigging deal? It's not like Fallout or Planescape, you knew that beforehand. If you didn't like it, move on to the next game!

 

QT3, I know people here look down on romances but, personally, I happen to like them and I am all for more and better romances. Sure, people don't fall in love with someone because they were pitted together in a love or death situation, but being caught up in an adventure where anyone can die, definitely makes you more emotionally vulnerable - or exposed, if you wish. It is a common reaction to try to hang on to someone else when death seems to lurk on every corner, just for the reassurance that things aren't that bad and there's life after the wars and the battles and the strings of near suicidal missions. It kinda sounds like I'm talking from experience and maybe I am, maybe I'm not, but I'm not here to give life lessons to anyone, again, it's my modest opinion.

 

P.S. Yes, I know your name is qtπ, I'm Greek, we bloody invented the π! Sometimes, I'm too docile to press shift+ alt, so sorry.