Movies you have seen lately

[Jediphile]

The only part about the ending that I didn't really like is that

Two-Face dies, it would have been much more interesting to see him come back in the third film with a serious grudge.

 

 

He doesn't die. At least not that I can tell. He fell, sure, but so did Batman, and he lived just fine. I figured Two-Face was just knocked out by the fall. I seem to recall Nolan noting that Burton made a mistake by killing the Joker in his film, so it would seem very odd to kill Two-Face. Besides, Eckhart has apparently already agreed to appear in a sequel to TDK, making your fears moot. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/news#ni0265713

 

[tripleRRR]

That says he would do it. Not that he has already been offered anything. I do hope you are correct but at this point it's too early to tell.

[Jediphile]

That says he would do it. Not that he has already been offered anything. I do hope you are correct but at this point it's too early to tell.

 

Yes, but I took that to not only imply but confirm that he did not die in the movie. If he had, talks of whether he would do a subsequent movie or not would be moot, wouldn't they?

[qt3.14159]

That says he would do it. Not that he has already been offered anything. I do hope you are correct but at this point it's too early to tell.

 

Yes, but I took that to not only imply but confirm that he did not die in the movie. If he had, talks of whether he would do a subsequent movie or not would be moot, wouldn't they?

 

I don't know, I remember going in to see The Phantom Menace and hearing that Liam Neeson had signed on to do Episode 2... of course, after that was over, I thought he'd be a force ghost... was surprised when he wasn't.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Jaws - damn good movie, glad I held on to my copy of it.

[Pope]

The only part about the ending that I didn't really like is that

Two-Face dies, it would have been much more interesting to see him come back in the third film with a serious grudge.

 

 

He doesn't die. At least not that I can tell. He fell, sure, but so did Batman, and he lived just fine. I figured Two-Face was just knocked out by the fall. I seem to recall Nolan noting that Burton made a mistake by killing the Joker in his film, so it would seem very odd to kill Two-Face. Besides, Eckhart has apparently already agreed to appear in a sequel to TDK, making your fears moot. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/news#ni0265713

 

 

Two Face is dead.

 

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...mp;postcount=81

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=100

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=114

 

The entire plot (especially the ending) really wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

 

Edited July 25, 2008 by Pope

[Jediphile]

The only part about the ending that I didn't really like is that

Two-Face dies, it would have been much more interesting to see him come back in the third film with a serious grudge.

 

 

He doesn't die. At least not that I can tell. He fell, sure, but so did Batman, and he lived just fine. I figured Two-Face was just knocked out by the fall. I seem to recall Nolan noting that Burton made a mistake by killing the Joker in his film, so it would seem very odd to kill Two-Face. Besides, Eckhart has apparently already agreed to appear in a sequel to TDK, making your fears moot. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001173/news#ni0265713

 

 

Two Face is dead.

 

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...mp;postcount=81

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=100

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.p...p;postcount=114

 

The entire plot (especially the ending) really wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

 

 

That's all speculation and reasoned argument by fans. I'm not questioning the logic,

just pointing it that it does not tell us if Two-Face is dead or not. Gordon could have him taken quietly to hospital, have a psycholist declare him mentally unbalanced and then lock him up for therapy sessions and skin graft surgery to restore his face. That DID happen at one point in the comic book with Dent rehabilitated and his face almost back to normal until an explosion disfigured him again permanently. Now, as I said, the argumentation you point to is reasoned and valid, which I suppose is why Nolan decided to leave Dent's fate uncertain at the end of the film. But I do maintain that his death is in question even if it makes sense - if a director wants a character to die, then it'll happen somehow, in Dent's case easily resolved by him falling onto some sharp pointed object piercing his heart or similar. That did not happen, and since Batman survived the fall, the same is possible for Dent.

 

[wesley2]

Well, I think that also, the ending scene really figures into the plot a lot.

In my mind, Harvery Dent has to die because by him being killed an in the manner he is killed, ie by Batman proves the Joker's point. I think that was one of the main themes in the movie is that the Joker asserted that Batman was trying to live by rules in a world without them. That way, eventually he would break his rules because he would have to in order to be the ultimate force of good. With Dent being killed by Batman, it proves the Joker isn't crazy (well, not that crazy) and set up and interesting development for the next movie now that Bruce has broken his rule and actually killed his friend and ally Harvey.

[qt3.14159]

I think I finally figured out what was so unfulfilling for me about TDK.

 

 

There weren't any likeable characters. Ok, Luscious & Alfred are awesome, but they got very little screen time. I'm not sure why exactly I didn't feel compelled to connect to Bruce Wayne / Batman except that he too, was a guest star in his own movie. An asshat by day, a distractingly voiced vigilante by night...

 

You sort of want to like Dent, but I didn't. I guess the whole "live long enough to become the villian" line made me know that he wasn't what he appeared so I never connected and then just when maybe you think you might like him, he goes off his rocker.

 

Granted this is expected. But why, if he's so hell bent on revenge, didn't he kill the Joker when he had the chance? Why leave the Joker to blow up a hospital and then go traipsing around town, killing dirty cops? That makes no sense whatsoever... (or did I miss something?)

 

Rachel wasn't particularly likeable either. I didn't really buy that she was connected to either of the men she was torn between. But maybe that's just part of the character - in love with asshat (who's not really an asshat) Bruce, and trying to distance herself from him and falling into a comfortable, but not spectacular relationship with Harvey.

 

 

 

 

Alrighty... sorry for the musings... I guess I'm just trying to figure out why I didn't just adore a movie that so many others seem to love. I really wanted to love this movie, and I did enjoy a lot of it. It's just not love. Now Speed Racer, that's love. :D

[Pope]

I think I finally figured out what was so unfulfilling for me about TDK.

 

 

There weren't any likeable characters.

 

OMG how can you not like Joker ??? :o Any line coming from him was pure gold.

 

 

"Watch me make this pencil disappear."

 

Edited July 25, 2008 by Pope

[qt3.14159]

I think I finally figured out what was so unfulfilling for me about TDK.

 

 

There weren't any likeable characters.

 

OMG how can you not like Joker ??? :o Any line coming from him was pure gold.

 

 

lol, likeable and enjoyable are not the same thing.

[Jediphile]

I think I finally figured out what was so unfulfilling for me about TDK.

 

 

There weren't any likeable characters. Ok, Luscious & Alfred are awesome, but they got very little screen time. I'm not sure why exactly I didn't feel compelled to connect to Bruce Wayne / Batman except that he too, was a guest star in his own movie. An asshat by day, a distractingly voiced vigilante by night...

 

You sort of want to like Dent, but I didn't. I guess the whole "live long enough to become the villian" line made me know that he wasn't what he appeared so I never connected and then just when maybe you think you might like him, he goes off his rocker.

 

Granted this is expected. But why, if he's so hell bent on revenge, didn't he kill the Joker when he had the chance? Why leave the Joker to blow up a hospital and then go traipsing around town, killing dirty cops? That makes no sense whatsoever... (or did I miss something?)

 

Rachel wasn't particularly likeable either. I didn't really buy that she was connected to either of the men she was torn between. But maybe that's just part of the character - in love with asshat (who's not really an asshat) Bruce, and trying to distance herself from him and falling into a comfortable, but not spectacular relationship with Harvey.

 

 

 

 

Alrighty... sorry for the musings... I guess I'm just trying to figure out why I didn't just adore a movie that so many others seem to love. I really wanted to love this movie, and I did enjoy a lot of it. It's just not love. Now Speed Racer, that's love. :D

 

Perhaps because many of the reasons you cite are the very reasons many of us, or at least me, like this movie.

 

 

Because many of the characters are very much not likeable, and this is more Harvey Dent's film than it is Batman's. The Dark Knight is a tragedy, because it might as well have been named "the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, White Knight of Gotham" or similar. Batman is the mover and shaker, but he is in the shadows and not the central character, because he cannot be that - that's why Bruce is trying to pass the torch to Harvey, a white and trusted knight that people can believe in instead of the dark, moody avenger called Batman, who can really only punish the villains. Batman cannot inspire the population to something positive, and Bruce knows and accepts that.

 

I disagree totally about Harvey Dent, though. Like Bruce 'I believe in Harvey Dent'. Particularly in the scene where he explains to Rachel and Bruce exactly why the population of Gotham have created Batman by their inaction. Dent is an idealist and is willing to make great sacrifices for his ideals. The tragedy lies in how The Joker succeeds in corrupting this good and ethical person. because he symbolizes something Batman can never be. And Batman isn't particularly likeable either - you're not a hero when you push a mob boss off a building knowing he won't die but "merely" break his legs. Holy torture, Batman - pure and simple. It's what Batman has to do to get the job done, but no, he's not likeable for it.

 

As for why Dent doesn't kill the Joker, it lies within the Joker's philosophy, as the Joker explains to him.

 

"Do I really look like a man with a plan, Harvey? I don't have a plan. The mob has plans. The cops have plans. You know what I am, Harvey? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do if I caught one. I just do things. I'm a wrench in the gears. I hate plans. Yours, theirs, everyone's. Maroni has plans. Gordon has plans. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I am not a schemer. I show schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are. So when I say that what happened to you and your girlfriend wasn't personal, you know I'm telling the truth. It's a schemer who put you where you are. You were a schemer. You had plans. Look where it got you. I just did what I do best - I took your plan and turned it on itself. Look what I have done to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets. You see, nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even if the plan is horrifying. If I told people that a gangbanger was going to get shot, or a busload of soldiers was going to get blown up, nobody would panic. Because it's all part of the plan. But tell people that one tiny little mayor is going to die and everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little anarchy. You upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I am an agent of chaos. And you know the thing about chaos, Harvey? It's fair."

 

As the Joker says this, he puts his own gun to his own head and lets Harvey hold it. Harvey need only pull the trigger now. He then flips the coin, which dictates the Joker lives, and so Harvey doesn't shoot.

 

[Tale]

I think I finally figured out what was so unfulfilling for me about TDK.

 

 

There weren't any likeable characters.

 

OMG how can you not like Joker ??? :o Any line coming from him was pure gold.

 

 

lol, likeable and enjoyable are not the same thing.

Yeah, he wasn't near cute enough. They should have included Brad Pitt somewhere.

[qt3.14159]

Perhaps because many of the reasons you cite are the very reasons many of us, or at least me, like this movie.

 

Agreed. It just didn't work for me.

 

 

I see what you're saying about Harvey following the Joker's reasoning and leaving it to chance... but I didn't buy it. Again, it just didn't work for me.

 

 

Anyhoo, I'll shush now... and we can get back to other movies...

 

I plan on seeing Wall-E this weekend... can't wait!

 

 

****edit****

Yeah, he wasn't near cute enough. They should have included Brad Pitt somewhere.

 

Christian Bale is enough of a hottie for one movie.

Edited July 25, 2008 by qt3.14159

[Kor Qel Droma]

I think it's pretty much time for a Dark Knight thread .

[Jediphile]

I think it's pretty much time for a Dark Knight thread .

 

We can talk about other films. I just watched Paycheck with Ben Affleck, Uma Thurman and Harvey Den... uhm, Aaron Eckhart today, for example

 

Not a particularly good movie. Decent action in a so-so plot, which would seem okay, except it's based on a story by Philip K. ****, in which I'd have expected more. It's directed by John Woo, though so...

[I want teh kotor 3]

Yeah, I don;t get why

Dent didn't kill Joker either. The whole coin thing just seemed like an excuse for Nolan choosing wo to kill off.

[Rosbjerg]

Yeah, I don;t get why

Dent didn't kill Joker either. The whole coin thing just seemed like an excuse for Nolan choosing wo to kill off.

 

 

It has to do with his character. Harvey Dent is both merciful, pure, vengeful and corrupted. As his face. He let's the coin decide which side of him is the dominant one. His insanity is split personality (of sorts) and instead of going completly insane he funnels his madness into chance.

The only problem was that since it landed on the "pure" side of the coin, he should've done "the right thing", which wasn't letting the joker go - he can't kill him, but he should have turned him over to the authorities.

 

[Kelverin]

O Homem do Ano (2003) - I love this movie. Everything worked - great direction, superb acting, witty dialog from a wonderful screenplay that delivers the unexpected, sex, violence, What more could you possibly want? Highly recommended

9/10

 

X2 (2003) - Sequel to the X-Men, much better than the original. The attack on the Whitehorse and Wolvie guarding the mansion are highlights. The cast is good and all perform well. The characters and storyline is different from the books, but I like it anyway. I am sure the next installment will rate a 10/10............

8/10

Edited July 26, 2008 by Kelverin

[Pope]

The Dark Knight is a tragedy, because it might as well have been named "the rise and fall of Harvey Dent, White Knight of Gotham" or similar.

 

Which, to me, means even more he's dead.

 

[Jediphile]

Yeah, I don;t get why

Dent didn't kill Joker either. The whole coin thing just seemed like an excuse for Nolan choosing wo to kill off.

 

 

It has to do with his character. Harvey Dent is both merciful, pure, vengeful and corrupted. As his face. He let's the coin decide which side of him is the dominant one. His insanity is split personality (of sorts) and instead of going completly insane he funnels his madness into chance.

The only problem was that since it landed on the "pure" side of the coin, he should've done "the right thing", which wasn't letting the joker go - he can't kill him, but he should have turned him over to the authorities.

 

 

 

In the "Long Halloween" comic, yes, but not in the movie. Remember that in the movie, the coin is the same on both sides.

 

Dent isn't exactly the same as he is in the comic books and the cartoons, where his dominant benevolent side is slowly being pushed back by his emerging violent side even before his face is disfigured. In the movie he is entirely benevolent, and the Joker drives him to the point of insanity through his antics.

 

It pushes Dent over the edge, because the Joker getting away with it proves to him that the world is chaotic and random, and that any attempt to control it is unnatural and self-deceptive and thus will cause harm. "You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong; the world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world....is chance," as Dent says to Gordon towards the end of the movie.

 

It's also fits with Batman's point to Superman at the end of Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns", where Batman points out that the world is fair only if you force it to, because that's what his parents proved when they died in an alley for no reason at all.

 

Essentially, this is the reason why Batman and the Joker are similar, because they both see the world the same way - it's chaotic and random, and there is no "great plan" or "ultimate justice". Their difference lies in that the Joker accepts this as natural and tries to convince others that this is natural and true, whereas Batman struggles to enforce a control because he feels the people deserves it. "Sometimes truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded," as Batman tells Gordon at the end of the movie. That's scarcely an indication that Batman seeks to serve the truth and do the right thing no matter what the consequences. The reason for that goes back to Batman's origin, because if he can force that control to exist, force the world to make sense and be fair, then no young boy will ever again have to see his parents brutally gunned down for no reason like he did.

 

[I want teh kotor 3]

Yeah, I don;t get why

Dent didn't kill Joker either. The whole coin thing just seemed like an excuse for Nolan choosing wo to kill off.

 

 

It has to do with his character. Harvey Dent is both merciful, pure, vengeful and corrupted. As his face. He let's the coin decide which side of him is the dominant one. His insanity is split personality (of sorts) and instead of going completly insane he funnels his madness into chance.

The only problem was that since it landed on the "pure" side of the coin, he should've done "the right thing", which wasn't letting the joker go - he can't kill him, but he should have turned him over to the authorities.

 

 

 

In the "Long Halloween" comic, yes, but not in the movie. Remember that in the movie, the coin is the same on both sides.

 

Dent isn't exactly the same as he is in the comic books and the cartoons, where his dominant benevolent side is slowly being pushed back by his emerging violent side even before his face is disfigured. In the movie he is entirely benevolent, and the Joker drives him to the point of insanity through his antics.

 

It pushes Dent over the edge, because the Joker getting away with it proves to him that the world is chaotic and random, and that any attempt to control it is unnatural and self-deceptive and thus will cause harm. "You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong; the world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world....is chance," as Dent says to Gordon towards the end of the movie.

 

It's also fits with Batman's point to Superman at the end of Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns", where Batman points out that the world is fair only if you force it to, because that's what his parents proved when they died in an alley for no reason at all.

 

Essentially, this is the reason why Batman and the Joker are similar, because they both see the world the same way - it's chaotic and random, and there is no "great plan" or "ultimate justice". Their difference lies in that the Joker accepts this as natural and tries to convince others that this is natural and true, whereas Batman struggles to enforce a control because he feels the people deserves it. "Sometimes truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded," as Batman tells Gordon at the end of the movie. That's scarcely an indication that Batman seeks to serve the truth and do the right thing no matter what the consequences. The reason for that goes back to Batman's origin, because if he can force that control to exist, force the world to make sense and be fair, then no young boy will ever again have to see his parents brutally gunned down for no reason like he did.

 

 

 

Would an insane person (as Dent clearly was at the end of the movie) really use probablity, etc. to determine who he killed?

 

[tripleRRR]

Well Harvey did try torturing that one fake police officer in the movie. Granted with the coin having heads on both sides I doubt he would have actually killed him. Still the psychological effect was probably agonizing enough.

[Bokishi]

WHY SO SERIOUS

[Moatilliatta]

Wanna know how I got these scars?