Okay, I'm ready for The Witcher

[Pop]

In pure gameplay terms, it could easily be classified as an "Action RPG", but it's certainly not a pure hack-and-slash. It's a sugary hack-and-slash lozenge with a soft and saccharine CRPG middle. The main quest is typical CRPG stuff. Investigations, collection of special items, etc. the non-plot critical parts of the game all entail saving up cash, buying books and reading them so you can go out and collect monster body parts for the abundant fetch quests that make up half the game, and also for your own Oblivion-esque alchemical purposes. As someone who heard how difficult the boss battles could be without leveling up I endeavored to complete as many quests as I could, and only 4 of the 20 or so hours I spent on the game consisted of plot elements, if that. At least 2 of those hours consisted of running from map to map. In lieu if persuasion options there's a signet ring system and a drinking contest system, which are really just a means of withholding info until a certain point in the game and a needlessly complicated bribing system, respectively (finding out what particular kinds of alcohol an NPC prefers is a tedious grind in itself).

 

There are relevant choices to be made, of course, but the distance between a choice and its consequence are often spaced far apart, by a measure of gameplay hours or even game chapters, such that choosing often feels arbitrary, and the desire to replay through the game doing differently is dampened by the incredible grind you have to go through to even get to that point. By the 15th hour of gameplay I started to become detached from the game, as the investigation into the Salamandra became more bloated and it was apparent that it wasn't going to go anywhere for another 12-20 hours. Apparently Geralt became detached as well, as the increasingly plodding search for the Salamandra took a backseat to the burning question of which female ally I wanted to take a second nudie card from, and a profoundly uninteresting race war plotline.

 

All in all, take the crushing, unending disappointment and uninteresting sideplots of Twin Peaks' second season, set it in Tolkien's universe, and get Frank Miller to write all the female characters' dialogue, and you've got The Witcher. I haven't been this disappointed with a game purchase since I got bored one night and bought Dungeon Siege II.

 

Really, I'd be a whole lot easier on it if it wasn't so very, very long. I'd like to appreciate the story, but it's too stretched.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Pop

[Xard]

Hey, don't you dare to diss sideplots of second season of Twin Peaks, hmph. They weren't as great as in first season but still most of them were good and some even great

 

... carry on

[Pop]

Oh really? Civil War Ben Horne? The Canadian gangster? Andy's baby daddy drama? James' out-of-town romance? Billy ****ing Zane?

 

Really, I enjoyed most of the Windom Earle stuff, but that's at the end of the series. There's a good 6 or 7 episodes of dead weight in the middle of the second season. You can read all about it at The AV Club.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I thought there was a big patch around the corner...

 

It was my understanding that all of the extra stuff in the Enhanced Version was going to be offered as a patch to those who have the regular game.

[Tale]

let Gromnir know what you think of witcher. a couple folks we knows says that witcher goes for some shock value during first hour o' gameplay... then settles into the same-old-same-old routine one would expect from an action-rpg. another drawback is that it is 'posedly a resource hog such that you will forget whatever complaints you had regarding nwn2.

i'm curious, just how did the Witcher become known as an 'action' RPG?

 

i'm sure folk can quibble over categorization but, in my book, action RPGs are games like Diablo or Titan Quest. Nobody who gets past its prologue could confuse those games with the Witcher.

 

then again, Gromnir and i move in different circles. i'm sure the folk he knows are a rarified bunch.

 

p.s. once i tweaked the graphics settings, Witcher ran far more smoothly on my PC than NWN2. it looked much better and had quicker load times too.

Generally, when your character's default attacks are carried out by each individual click of the mouse, then it's classified an action RPG. Diablo, Jade Empire, I presume Titan Quest, and The Witcher. If you find yourself actively clicking the mouse over and over again when fighting an enemy, the RPG is considered partially an action game as you are more active in determining the outcome of combat.

 

To contrast, Baldur's Gate and KOTOR only require you to select the enemy and select to attack. Individual default attacks are repeated without further input until the enemy dies or your character does.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Tale

[~Di]

I hate it when people actually listen to me. crud.

 

hi Di! *waves*

 

Heya! Yep, the awesome responsibility is on your handsome shoulders. If I hate it, I'm coming after you. Yes, yes I am!

[newc0253]

Generally, when your character's default attacks are carried out by each individual click of the mouse, then it's classified an action RPG.

thanks, that's a very simple and clear definition and one i can see would lead some people to classify the Witcher as an action RPG.

 

it is also unbelievably silly, focusing on a single criterion to the exclusion of all else.

 

but, since we're engaged in rigid formalism, then it's worth pointing out that it's wrong, at least as it applies to the Witcher. Default attacks in the Witcher aren't determined by each individual click, rather each click represents a different stage in an attack sequence. unusually, the timing of clicks at each stage matters, but it is much closer in feel to BG than any action RPG.

 

interestingly, IIRC the combat in Dungeon Seige was click-to-target instead of each-swing-is-a-hit. it would be consistent with its dumbness, that according to that definition, Dungeon Seige (a game with nothing but combat) is not an action RPG but the Witcher is.

 

of course, a proper definition of an action RPG would have to be concerned with the content and substance of the game, not just the dynamics of combat. by that measure, a story-driven game like Witcher is much closer to BG or Planescape than a simple kill monster-collect treasure game like Titan Quest or Diablo.

 

instead, that definition reminds me of the nutters over at RPG Codex who don't believe an RPG is an RPG unless it's turn-based.

[newc0253]

All in all, take the crushing, unending disappointment and uninteresting sideplots of Twin Peaks' second season, set it in Tolkien's universe, and get Frank Miller to write all the female characters' dialogue, and you've got The Witcher. I haven't been this disappointed with a game purchase since I got bored one night and bought Dungeon Siege II.

I've never read such a literate yet negative review of the Witcher. Kudos, sir, kudos - a singular acheivement.

 

I'm sorry, btw, that you found the sideplots so unengaging and the payoff for some of your decisions so distant. The Witcher ain't

[Pop]

Would you consider a game of chess to be entertaining if the other player's pieces were invisible?

[Nick_i_am]

Not at all, just like Battleships.

 

Wait.....

[newc0253]

Would you consider a game of chess to be entertaining if the other player's pieces were invisible?

sure. chess is a little dry for my tastes, anything to make it more interesting would be good.

[Pop]

Well, you know what they say.

[Tale]

it is also unbelievably silly, focusing on a single criterion to the exclusion of all else.

That's because it's a rule of thumb. Not an actual formal definition. An action RPG is generally one that tries through it's mechanisms to make the player more active in combat. What I previously mentioned is just the most common use of it.

 

The feel is nothing like Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate combat is generally pause, set target, forget. Adjust if things go bad or to select spells. Witcher requires active involvement with every single action.

 

the content and substance of the game, not just the dynamics of combat

The differentiation between the action subgenre and the normal genre is solely reliant upon the combat system. It's irrelevant if it's a mindless dungeon crawl or the Illiad. Action doesn't mean "mindless like an action movie." Action means the combat has a reliance on player skill.

 

It's like Platformer. The defining function of platformers is jumping from platform to platform. Anything beyond that is irrelevant. Videogame genres are generally differentiated by the gameplay mechanics.

Edited March 20, 2008 by Tale

[SteveThaiBinh]

Does the Enhanced version of the game come in the form of a large patch, or do I have to download the whole game afresh?

[newc0253]

That's because it's a rule of thumb. Not an actual formal definition.

despite all appearances to the contrary...

 

An action RPG is generally one that tries through it's mechanisms to make the player more active in combat.

no, an action RPG is a CRPG in which action is the dominating feature of the game.

 

The feel is nothing like Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate combat is generally pause, set target, forget. Adjust if things go bad or to select spells.

I said the feel of the game overall, not the feel of the combat. Witcher and BG have very different combat mechanisms, but the overall feel of the games (i.e. story-driven) are far more alike than, say, Witcher and Dungeon Seige or Witcher and Oblivion.

 

Witcher requires active involvement with every single action.

No, it doesn't. An action RPG like Titan Quest is one-click=one-swing-of-your-weapon. Even Oblivion (which isn't an action RPG imo) is one-click=one-swing-of-your-weapon.

 

Combat in the Witcher is one click to start a series of attacks, sit back and watch, wait for the light to start the next sequence of attacks, then click again.

 

The differentiation between the action subgenre and the normal genre is solely reliant upon the combat system. It's irrelevant if it's a mindless dungeon crawl or the Illiad. Action doesn't mean "mindless like an action movie." Action means the combat has a reliance on player skill.

why? and according to whom? some internet nerd subcommittee? or is the OED now accepting submissions on classifying CRPGs?

 

to most reasonable people, an 'action RPG' sensibly describes CRPGs like Diablo and Titan Quest, CRPGs with utterly minimal story and maximal combat and treasure, whose only RPG elements are stats and levelling up.

 

it's perfectly reasonable to come up with terms to differentiate between combat mechanics that are more tactical and those that are more twitch-based. But it becomes silly to apply those terms to the genre of game.

 

 

It's like Platformer. The defining function of platformers is jumping from platform to platform. Anything beyond that is irrelevant.

Except if you happen to think definining the Witcher in terms of its combat mechanism is the height of frakking stupidity.

 

In which case, it's kinda relevant.

Edited March 21, 2008 by newc0253

[Pidesco]

You will be able to download a patch if you already own The Witcher.

[~Di]

Back to the topc, I've installed, patched and gotten through the prologue...I must say I've beem blown away so far. Can't wait to contknue on and find out what is next!!!

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

hehe... Good init, it should settle down though, after the prologue it becomes a mite bit more about exploration...

 

P.S. I loved the general design elves in the witcher...

Edited March 21, 2008 by @\NightandtheShape/@

[mkreku]

I would post a picture of what I love about The Witcher, but since I'm under constant moderation, I don't think that picture would ever show up..

 

Just like the very first post (next after ~Di's, actually) I posted in this thread: gone.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Does the Enhanced version of the game come in the form of a large patch, or do I have to download the whole game afresh?

 

I think it's going to be a large patch for those who already own the game, and a completely new installation for those who do not.

[SteveThaiBinh]

There's a new patch 1.3 for The Witcher, and a sort of mini-expansion called Price of Neutrality. It looks good, though I think I'll wait until the full enhanced version is released before replaying. Oh, and the toolset's been released as well - so says the official site.

[Meshugger]

There's a new patch 1.3 for The Witcher, and a sort of mini-expansion called Price of Neutrality. It looks good, though I think I'll wait until the full enhanced version is released before replaying. Oh, and the toolset's been released as well - so says the official site.

 

A just a couple weeks until the enhanced edition. I can wait.

[babydol]

Just got this game as a birthday present. You guys like it? I'm a little concerned that I can't be a female PC. I don't think I've played an RPG before without the option (except Two Worlds, which was CRAP).

[Moatilliatta]

Well ~Di seemed to like it even though she had the same problem, give it a try. Personally I think it's strange reason to give up a game that you might like.

 

Edit: Oh and happy birthday I guess.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[babydol]

Yeah, I just don't like it when there's really no "character creation". Also, this game is rated M (mature) for Blood and Gore, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, and Violence. I'm all for M-rated games, I just go into this one knowing that the nudity and strong sexual content (that is a new one for me, in a video game) will be geared towards a male character. Not as much fun for me, as it could have been if it was with a female PC in mind, is all.