Cantousent Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Pop Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Harumph, I'll expect you to rewrite this when the game ships. Too much vagueness = not much meaning. I'm sure it works for you, however. You've seen things we haven't. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Sand Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Good review and now I want the expansion even more. GIMMEE! GIMMEE! GIMMEE! GIMMEE! GIMMEE! GIMMEE! Just out of curiousity, what is your system specs? Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Meshugger Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Sounds alright. It's good to read a review without too much "awesome" and "extreeeme". Simply put, without too much hype. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Cantousent Posted August 29, 2007 Author Posted August 29, 2007 When the game ships, I won't write or rewrite another review. :Cant's tongue in cheek grin: However, I'll be in the spoilers area telling folks how to deal with some of the more difficult areas. The system specs I was running at work were... let's see, a quad intel cpu running Vista with one gig of ram (should have been two) and a... 6800? I think. May have been a 6600, but I think it was 6800. Had a huge amount of harddisk space, but the cpu/video/memory configuration was just not up to snuff. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Sand Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Its the one gig that probably killed ya, Cant. NWN2 runs pretty fast on my system which is currently a single core 3ghz, 2 gig of RAM, and a Radeon x1900. I just can't wait to run MotB with a GeForce 9800! Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 What obsidian need to do is higher some opermization freaks to go over there code, AND PERHAPS RUN SOME PERF TOOLS FOR FRACKS SAKE! Sorry, perfermance is a pet beef of mine, and it seems to be a bit of a problem in general with NWN2. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Pavlos Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Thanks for this . While vague, it gives us a better idea as to what to expect. I'd also like to ask something: how much of the game is voiced? Is it the mix between text and voice we saw in the NWN2 OC, or are we getting everything acted out? Neither really bothers me, I'm just wondering. StarWarsKnights.com -- Do not invent details which are not in the play
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 What obsidian need to do is higher some opermization freaks to go over there code, AND PERHAPS RUN SOME PERF TOOLS FOR FRACKS SAKE! Sorry, perfermance is a pet beef of mine, and it seems to be a bit of a problem in general with NWN2. I'll rewrite that in English. Obsidian could really do with hiring some specialist optermization programmers, not to discredit the current tallent, but it almost seems like they don't use perf tools. I'm the sort of person who is very narky about performance of code, when I write code. I'm sure there is alot of perf code in there, but it just seems bizzare to me... I guess its just because I wish I could get in there and try and solve the problem... Not that I will have the chance, but we can dream. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Sand Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 What obsidian need to do is higher some opermization freaks to go over there code, AND PERHAPS RUN SOME PERF TOOLS FOR FRACKS SAKE! Sorry, perfermance is a pet beef of mine, and it seems to be a bit of a problem in general with NWN2. I'll rewrite that in English. Obsidian could really do with hiring some specialist optermization programmers, not to discredit the current tallent, but it almost seems like they don't use perf tools. I'm the sort of person who is very narky about performance of code, when I write code. I'm sure there is alot of perf code in there, but it just seems bizzare to me... I guess its just because I wish I could get in there and try and solve the problem... Not that I will have the chance, but we can dream. Maybe they should hire you. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Morgoth Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 NWN2 already ran very good, Here and there some choppiness, but nothing hair raising. And with the optimized code in MOTB it should even run better now. Yay, I guess. Rain makes everything better.
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 What obsidian need to do is higher some opermization freaks to go over there code, AND PERHAPS RUN SOME PERF TOOLS FOR FRACKS SAKE! Sorry, perfermance is a pet beef of mine, and it seems to be a bit of a problem in general with NWN2. I'll rewrite that in English. Obsidian could really do with hiring some specialist optermization programmers, not to discredit the current tallent, but it almost seems like they don't use perf tools. I'm the sort of person who is very narky about performance of code, when I write code. I'm sure there is alot of perf code in there, but it just seems bizzare to me... I guess its just because I wish I could get in there and try and solve the problem... Not that I will have the chance, but we can dream. Maybe they should hire you. There are many reasons why that won't happen... To name but a few... 1. I'm English, that means just to hire me there is a paper trail a mile long, with legal BS and extra costs. Why do that when there is homegrown talent? It's very difficult to actually get a job in the US if you're not from there, but it does happen, I've spoken with industry folks, nobody makes promises. 2. I'm still doing my degree, I've not even graduated university. I would consider myself to be acedemically challenged, but extremely practical. 3. I've not got anywhere near enough the experience required for that level of job, I've done some work on a title which hasn't been released yet that's it. 4. I'm an ass. That said, I'd happily take the job if it was offered, but it won't be, not for a long time, and number 4 is a major problem. Thanks for the encouragement sand, it's very ooc for you. MORE PERF, LESS PR0N! "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 NWN2 already ran very good, Here and there some choppiness, but nothing hair raising. And with the optimized code in MOTB it should even run better now. Yay, I guess. It had terrible performance issues, even on a high end system, I really do hope it runs alot better with MOTB, but all in all it still runs like a badger. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Sand Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I really wouldn't consider you to be an ass. At least you are gaining experience in the field. That's something. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I really wouldn't consider you to be an ass. At least you are gaining experience in the field. That's something. I have a tendancy to be fairly insulting, or perhaps too honest, when I'm speaking with guys already in the industry. It's not intentional, I was speaking with one of the guys from Garage Games at gamefest, and I kinda put my foot in it! I mean i've recommended GG's stuff to n00bs intersted in learning how to make games, but the conversation I had about the Torque Game Builder basically started with me saying, it's an awful piece of kit to work with, it's unstable, and the scripting language is offensive to a programmer (except my language wasn't nearly that kind), while the dude did say that that Torque X was a hell of alot better, and he was a nice guy actually, I still felt kinda rude for saying the engine sucked... I did the same with a guy from Pop Cap and their engine, and had a healthy debate with Shawn Hargreaves about the content pipeline in the XNA framework. Who am I really to have an opinion? Those guys are verterns, they know alot more than I do! but as I always stated, I love critisim of the work I do, I just feel I lack tack when I've got a belly full of JD LOL. If I had the oppertunity to sit down with Frank Kowalkowski, and argue out the problems with performance within NWN2 with him, I'd do it tomorrow. In all honestly that time would be better spent with him communicating with his team to keep on improving the performance (assuming he is still in the LP role, not sure how Obsidian structured the team after NWN2 shipped), truth of the matter is they have been steadily improving the perf with every patch, the main reason for this is probably to do with the deadline, and the basic fact that it needed to be done so it was hacked in as fast as possible so as to meet a milestones (It's not a fact it's a guess). In and of itself that is a talent worthy of respect, I have issues with stabbing myself in such a manner to get a job done, but I do realise it is needed at time. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
GreasyDogMeat Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I'm disapointed, but in no way surprised, that the optimizations aren't quite enough. I'm very excited about the soul eating aspect of the game, it sounds very interesting. Have they streamlined the inventory at all? I for one hated the small boxes and vague item squares. Sorting, selling and passing between the party was an absolute nightmare... clunkier than the old infinity engine games. I even think some of the old SSI games had more convenient inventories. Obsidian seems to have had atleast one major flaw in their two games so far, KoTOR 2's incomplete ending and NwN 2's clunky engine and poor user interface, but one thing I've seen in both games is excellent stories, writing, and characters.
Atreides Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) I'm guessing if optimization has decreasing marginal return, there comes a point where you've fixed most of the easy ones leaving a few very hard ones. Eventually you got to spend so much time on the (few?) remaining ones that the leader may decide the programmers could be better used on other stuff (because they have a deadline) that would give bigger payoff for their time (like streamlining inventory UI?), even if they wish they could optimize everything. So maybe it's just a human resource issue... Edited August 29, 2007 by Atreides Spreading beauty with my katana.
Tale Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I'm kind of dissapointed that NWN2 runs worse than Bioshock does on this computer. I'm really hoping that they get some serious optimization done with this expansion. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Zoma Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Will there be some Soul Reaver characters as cameo or Easter Eggs in MotB?
Tale Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Will there be some Soul Reaver characters as cameo or Easter Eggs in MotB? Obsidian bought out Crystal Dynamics? "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Xard Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Great review Cant, huge thanks Since your rig was already asked about I have two questions left: 1) Any ideas how long the game was? 20 hours? 2) Main question. The crafting and item enchanting system is now more convenient and easier to use. You How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Gromnir Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 "When a game, such as PS:T, tries to rise above its third class standing, a number of people in the gaming community pillory the effort as "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Monte Carlo Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 Many thanks for your thoughts, you skate across the surface of the NDA quite elegantly in my humble. Obsidian are lucky to have a community member of your integrity. Now I've blown enough smoke up your arse... My thoughts: 1. I'm a bit sad that performance optimization is still an issue; a lot of people here aren't graphics junkies, they just want a solid gaming experience (note: am still an avid X-Com fan and love the retro graphics). I run a two-year old Dell XPS gaming rig that is starting to feel it's age... I struggle to get NWN2 going all out. 2. I like Thay / Rashemen although I'm not a big FR fan.... Thay are the Nazis and Rashemen is the Eastern Front, dig my bizarre comparison and it makes a bit more sense, it's attrition baby. 3. For me the most encouraging thing is the curse / influence / well-rounded NPC thing. I am one of those people who criticized PS:T for the reasons you describe but think that good writers can always do less with more when it comes to words. This is what I'm expecting from this game. 4. I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral Tielfing Ftr/Thf/Duellist through NWN2 at the moment. I think it's safe to say my style is the polar opposite to yours which illustrates the challenge the designers have! Cheers, MC
Cantousent Posted August 29, 2007 Author Posted August 29, 2007 Let me make a point about optimization. If you didn Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Sand Posted August 29, 2007 Posted August 29, 2007 I thought the voice work in NWN2 was top notch, just needed some reworking in some areas. Manly voiced female brigands scare me. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
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