NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[Tigranes]

And perhaps one or more of those "different writers" were, well, not so good.

[Pop]

6) Another big problem is how the city watch/thieves guild quests basically turn into mirror images of one another, just with different massacres. This was disappointing.

I haven't played the thieves path yet but different viewpoints on the same (inevitable?) events seems like fun to me. The events are going to happen, it just depends which side uses you.

Funny, either I really missed out the first time I played, or the thieves' guild branch is much more fleshed out than the city watch branch. The guild rep hanging around the throne room of the keep and the assassination attempts and whatnot. There didn't seem to be an equivalent in the city watch. Maybe that's nothing to some people, but it made the thieves guild plot more interesting to me.

[Tigranes]

The thieves portion is much more fleshed out in Act 3, but in Act 1 they are pretty much the same, just blatant mirror images. I would personally argue that the thieves portion was much more fun anyway, but yes.

 

Very nice to see multi-select making its way in and some people recognising just how great the trial was. Really. I think it's because most people wouldn't play the OC more than twice (I've played it twice now, and I'm still waiting to see if I'll get the urge for a third time). But on my second try I repeated the trial a few times selecting different options just to see, and even that made the trial become very different. Coupled wiht the multitude of ways in which your actions BEFORE the trial influence it, it truly was very well made. My only wish is that you could see the evidences presented as well, but looksl ike that was cut.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Khelghar's lines were well written and voiced. The other joinable NPCs dialogs where well written. Hats off to Chris.

[Spider]

Thieves vs Watch:

 

Both have the same number of quests. With the thieves you get the kill Moire quest in Act III and with the watch you get the negotiation quest in Act II. I personally liked the negotiation quest better, but that's mostly due to the Moire quest being bugged when I played it.

 

IIRC, the guy that hangs around in the throne room can be recruited for that position regardless of what path you took. The difference is that if you went with the thieves he is mandatory, otherwise optional. Also, supposedly he can get a gambling den, but never has for me. With my thief, I wanted him to have that and held out for a long time, so I'm guessing that option is only available for Watch characters.

 

All in all, it pretty much balances out. Also, I had a MUCH tougher time fighting guards than I did fighting thieves in those respective quests. Backstabs just weren't as annoying as opponents that never went down to me.

[Yst]

Dialogue writing is a hit and miss affair. Some characters certainly hit, as I've suggested. But the PC's dialogue, on the other hand, is a train-wreck.

 

IIRC, the companion (joinable NPC) dialogues were written exclusively by Chris Avellone while most of the other lines (PC dialogue, item descriptions, some cutscenes) were done by different writers.

 

This certainly makes good sense. I had a hard time believing the same creative mind(s) behind characters like Sand and Shandra was behind the sometimes downright abysmal PC dialogue text.

 

NWN2's PC dialogue was all the more disappointing for me because KotOR II's PC dialogue was frequently, I thought, absolutely brilliant. The way multiple dialogue options presented to the player would build on each other to portray different and intermingling aspects of the character rather than merely exist as opposite and unrelated alternatives, and the way they managed to develop the PC's inner conflicts was often very clever, and enriched the storytelling. By comparison, NWN2's PC dialogue is a big huge festering blister on the ass of an otherwise fairly pristine product.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Yst

[taks]

Playing through the good path, it's filled with rogues who seemingly get sneak attack damage even when you know they are there (no comment should be required about what I think of this)

i believe this is actually a D&D thing, not an NWN2 thing. sneak attack works automatically if there is more than one person facing you, i.e. tag teams will result in endless sneak attacks. if there is only one, i don't know how they work it (rather, do you get a free sneak attack if you are invisible?)

 

taks

[Pop]

Sneak attacks are incurred when the opponent is caught flat-footed or is unable to defend himself. Held or paralyzed opponents get sneak attacks, as do opponents who are unaware of the thief's presence, as do opponents who aren't exclusively focusing on defending themselves from thieves' attacks. It's a 3rd edition thing. In 2nd backstab was only applied when the opponent could not see the thief.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Pop

[Aegeri]

Thieves vs Watch:

 

Both have the same number of quests. With the thieves you get the kill Moire quest in Act III and with the watch you get the negotiation quest in Act II. I personally liked the negotiation quest better, but that's mostly due to the Moire quest being bugged when I played it.

 

 

Negotiation quest? Which is this again, my memory fails me. Do you mean the stand off outside of what-is-his-beaks house?

 

Or do you mean the quest where you have to pretend to be watchmen buying some illegal stuff? Because that too, is directly copied (just from the other way) by the thieves guild as well. Just put yourself in the city watches place instead of the thieves and vice versa.

 

The Kill Moire quest in Act III is unique however, I shall grant you this, but only because you put her in the dead book in the informant quest as the city watch, otherwise there is truly no difference. Incidentally, I could not finish the Moire quest either.

 

Edit: In fact, I believe that to be the only true difference in quests between the two. They are pretty much lame mirror images of one another.

 

IIRC, the guy that hangs around in the throne room can be recruited for that position regardless of what path you took. The difference is that if you went with the thieves he is mandatory, otherwise optional. Also, supposedly he can get a gambling den, but never has for me. With my thief, I wanted him to have that and held out for a long time, so I'm guessing that option is only available for Watch characters.

Never had the gambling den either. You do get the odd demand from the shadow thieves though, such as a demand for 10,000 GP and other things.

 

All in all, it pretty much balances out. Also, I had a MUCH tougher time fighting guards than I did fighting thieves in those respective quests. Backstabs just weren't as annoying as opponents that never went down to me.

 

It balances out because it's pretty much identical. It does affect the subsequent trial however, because the thieves guild sends some guy who really gets on torios nerves and makes the entire trial into a big farce. It can be worth it solely for that.

 

Also, I find both equally annoying, but it depends on if you are a wizard or fragile PC. The forced dialogues that stick you right in front of the likes of Moire or the city watch captains leading mobs of watchmen are beyond frustrating. There isn't even a way (doing the thieves guild path) of just sneaking by the sods, because that dialogue will trigger and sure enough, you end up stuck in full view. Effectively, the warehouse/informants house are just chopathon dungeons in buildings. At least the Orc caves made sense from the chopathon point of view.

 

If you're a fighter you can just butcher your way through without really thinking in my experience.

 

Funny, either I really missed out the first time I played, or the thieves' guild branch is much more fleshed out than the city watch branch. The guild rep hanging around the throne room of the keep and the assassination attempts and whatnot. There didn't seem to be an equivalent in the city watch. Maybe that's nothing to some people, but it made the thieves guild plot more interesting to me.

 

The dude is still there regardless, you just have the option of booting him out. There are indications you can make a power play for the head of the thieves guild, but it is disappointingly never implemented. You get the assassination attempt by refusing to pay the 10,000 GP (IIRC), but for some reason he'll still want to talk to you about killing Moire (and this quest appears to be bugged out). Otherwise it is identical. It adds a few complications to your keep, including more disorder among greycloaks and a few other problems here and there, but otherwise has a minimal in game effect.

 

The main difference between the watch vs. guild is the trial in act II, where you will get some vastly different NPCs turning up to aid you. If you are a rogue and specialise in bluff/diplomacy and similar, you can turn the trial into an effective massacre. Poor Torio hasn't a chance.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Aegeri

[Spider]

Thieves vs Watch:

 

Both have the same number of quests. With the thieves you get the kill Moire quest in Act III and with the watch you get the negotiation quest in Act II. I personally liked the negotiation quest better, but that's mostly due to the Moire quest being bugged when I played it.

Or do you mean the quest where you have to pretend to be watchmen buying some illegal stuff? Because that too, is directly copied (just from the other way) by the thieves guild as well. Just put yourself in the city watches place instead of the thieves and vice versa.

 

That's the one I meant. I never got it working for the thieves so I figured it was unique for the watch. I guess I was wrong. Then I suppose it can be argued that the thieves path is more fleshed out. With only a few lines of dialogue I didn't really think there was enough difference to make a fuss about one being better implemented than the other. With one additional quest I suppose it could be, although I personally don't care.

 

I liked working for the watch better, mostly because it was so frustrating never getting to unlock the Shadow Thief of Amn PrC. At least with the Watch path I never had to worry about that.

 

The main difference between the watch vs. guild is the trial in act II, where you will get some vastly different NPCs turning up to aid you. If you are a rogue and specialise in bluff/diplomacy and similar, you can turn the trial into an effective massacre. Poor Torio hasn't a chance.

 

Vastly different? Other than the drunkard what differs? It's the only one I noticed.

[metadigital]

Nice bunch of spoilers there guys, I had to read the topic between my fingers ... :confused:

[Atreides]

Hey guys I'm looking for a different character playing experience. I've been playing arcane types so far. Any interesting/wacky fun combos? My cousin suggested monk/berserker before.

[Bokishi]

Yeah cut the spoilers I haven't even finished a quarter of this game yet.

[Aegeri]

Nice bunch of spoilers there guys, I had to read the topic between my fingers ... :confused:

There is nothing plot important there (and that isn't commonly known I would say, with the odd exception).

 

The watch and thieves guild part of the game is arguably the worst part of the entire game. I cannot emphasise how awfully designed those two quest lines are, firstly from the view of them being entirely mirror images of one another (which doesn't make sense) and secondly because they are boring, unimaginative hackathons. It feels entirely like padding between the well done starting portion of the game (The village festival, the attack on the town, the fort with associated tomb dungeon, highcliff etc are nicely done) to the beginning of act II (which again, is also well done).

Edited February 12, 2007 by Aegeri

[Atreides]

I started a warlock/rogue drow. Will let you guys know how it turns out. Warlock skills geared to a sneak melee fighter. I'm planning to get the invisibility and darkness feats to be a ninja that stabs ppl in the face.

[Dark_Raven]

 

No spoiler 4 u.

 

I finally downloaded the 1.04 patch. Now to continue my first game, my second, or start all over again?

Edited February 12, 2007 by Dark_Raven

[Xard]

It's not beta anymore?

Edited February 12, 2007 by Xard

[kirottu]

It's not beta anymore?

 

Nope.

[Sand]

No spoiler 4 u.

 

I finally downloaded the 1.04 patch. Now to continue my first game, my second, or start all over again?

 

I suggest start over. Export the character and start annew with it. :D

[Xard]

It's not beta anymore?

 

Nope.

 

Meh :confused:

[Enoch]

I started a warlock/rogue drow. Will let you guys know how it turns out. Warlock skills geared to a sneak melee fighter. I'm planning to get the invisibility and darkness feats to be a ninja that stabs ppl in the face.

I don't think that OE has fixed the "sneak attack not working with touch attacks" problem yet. You might want to get a fan-made fix for that (I'm sure there's one out there somewhere) to get your eldrich backstabbing goodness.

 

As for the game, I finally got into act III with my rogue1/wizardX this weekend. The characters are really getting interesting at this point.

Ammon is fascinating-- I'm hoping that I can build enough influence to open up some of his background story without being all evil. Also, I thought that Elanee's confrontation with the Circle was well done. And Grobnar's reaction to Shandra's death was absolutely heartbreaking-- that may be the thing I remember best about this game in 10 years' time.

 

Edited February 12, 2007 by Enoch

[Dark_Raven]

No spoiler 4 u.

 

I finally downloaded the 1.04 patch. Now to continue my first game, my second, or start all over again?

 

I suggest start over. Export the character and start annew with it. :D

I may do that. You can export a high level character and still keep those levels?

[Diamond]

Ammon is fascinating-- I'm hoping that I can build enough influence to open up some of his background story without being all evil.

You can. Hint:

Shandra.

[Sand]

No spoiler 4 u.

 

I finally downloaded the 1.04 patch. Now to continue my first game, my second, or start all over again?

 

I suggest start over. Export the character and start annew with it. :D

I may do that. You can export a high level character and still keep those levels?

 

Yeah. Took a 20th level monk to the tutorial brawl. Lets just say it was quick.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Sand

[Dark_Raven]

I can kill those low level baddies with ease then.