50 Reasons Why NWN1 is better than NWN2

[metadigital]

NWN 1 was boring as hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad the judges of 86 awards said differently.

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/about/awards.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cognitive Distortion fallacy

[alanschu]

The other option is to increase the number of frames that can be rendered per unit of time, which this engine seems incapable of what with current performance issues.

 

First of all, I feel I must point out that when you say "Some claim it was to support the ultra-fast movements," you should realise that when you are referring to "some" you are referring to Obsidian directly.

 

Second, given you could theoretically kill an infinite number of badguys with great cleave, even then this solution wouldn't work, outside of speeding things up and making something look a little silly, because of how fast they'd be moving.

 

I'd make the Matrix view a toggle option for the fun of it.

 

It's always nice to sit back and decide to add stuff while on a limited budget with finite time. But its something that is superficial enough that I won't miss it. It looked a little awkward at first, but I think that that was more because I was used to it from NWN. And the multiple bashing people with Great Cleave in NWN looked plenty awkward at first too.

Edited November 25, 2006 by alanschu

[Riftworm]

Heh, I just realized that they count "finalists" as being awards on that list.

 

 

Black and White won a lot of awards too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

These kinda matter

 

RPGamer

PC RPG of the Year

 

RPG Vault

Product of the Year

 

Gamespot

Editor's Choice

 

RPGDot

Gold Award

 

E3 Game Critics Award

Best Role Playing Game E3 2002 (Third year in a row!)

 

Gamers.com

Top 10 PC Games of 2002 - #1

 

Electric Playground

Best RPG For PC

[alanschu]

Heh, I just realized that they count "finalists" as being awards on that list.

 

 

Black and White won a lot of awards too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

These kinda matter

 

RPGamer

PC RPG of the Year

 

RPG Vault

Product of the Year

 

Gamespot

Editor's Choice

 

RPGDot

Gold Award

 

E3 Game Critics Award

Best Role Playing Game E3 2002 (Third year in a row!)

 

Gamers.com

Top 10 PC Games of 2002 - #1

 

Electric Playground

Best RPG For PC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh, I just realized that they count "finalists" as being awards on that list.

 

 

Who and what were they competing against?

Edited November 25, 2006 by alanschu

[Dark_Raven]

Awards don't mean ****. Games are not made to cater to magazines or netzines. Fans who like the games is all that matters. There are plenty of games that I like that have won no award. There are some I dislike that have won awards.

[Darque]

It all comes down to unit sales.

[alanschu]

How is NWN2 selling?

[Pop]

How is NWN2 selling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep in mind there are no expansions and no box sets, of which there are numerous NWN incarnations.

 

So a comparison might not be apt.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Pop

[metadigital]

Also, NwN had two expansions that would have contributed to their award-winnings.

 

Edit: Dang! Beaten to the punch (dare I say snap and crackle?) by a Pop!

Edited November 25, 2006 by metadigital

[Cantousent]

Rift, do these awards prove that NWN is better than NWN2? I'm just curious what we're using as our yardstick for better and worse. For example, you speak more or less authoritatively in your first post. I don't accept you as an authority, but I respect your right to hammer a parchment to the church door.

 

The thing is, you've stopped speaking as an authority in your own person and rely on various awards. ...But that seems to undermine the simple strength, such as it is , of your original argument. When you speak as yourself, you cite experiences within both games. When you cite awards, you forgo actual experience concerning each game and substitute an abstract "greatness-o-meter." That's a fallacy.

 

Nevertheless, you have every right to voice opinions on this board. I disagree with you for a variety of reasons. First of all, I disagree with your points as a fellow gamer. Second of all, you've completely thrown aside any pretense of impartiality when you make statements like: "50) Boring, Linear, Ugly, Non Immersive, Easy, and Annoying are all things I did not feel in NWN1 on release. I couldnt drag myself away from that game for weeks, then months, then finally years. NWN2 was back on my shelf in the first week after I forced myself to play it." Finally, I

[metadigital]

Yah! Cant's back, and he's made a great post. :D

[alanschu]

How is NWN2 selling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep in mind there are no expansions and no box sets, of which there are numerous NWN incarnations.

 

So a comparison might not be apt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That wasn't really what I meant. I wasn't trying to compare it to the original. It was a genuine question, how is NWN2 selling?

[Darque]

How is NWN2 selling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep in mind there are no expansions and no box sets, of which there are numerous NWN incarnations.

 

So a comparison might not be apt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not currently, but I'm sure there are records of how NWN sold on a month to month, or quarterly basis. So you can compare that way also.

 

In the end though, it's probably not possible to compare until NWN2 has as much age as NWN1.

[Wistrik]

First of all, I feel I must point out that when you say "Some claim it was to support the ultra-fast movements," you should realise that when you are referring to "some" you are referring to Obsidian directly.

I was aware of that. I do read the occasional thread from time to time.

 

I'd rather the animations were done the way NWN did them, but I offered a possible alternative, which is more than most people do. Also, I found nothing strange about NWN's animations for Great Cleave, and it was enjoyable killing every zombie around me with a greatsword and a single GC.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Wistrik

[Nartwak]

Yet you've yet to demonstrate how they're "false". How can they be subjective opinions and false simultaneously?

When they're not "simulanteous". Or when "you" base your "opinions" on things "which" are demonstably false. As for "showing" how they're false, what am "I" going to point out that hasn't been "written" by a halfdozen other "posters"?

 

No, not "Billions and Billions". Hundreds ..that aren't the phantoms you want them to be:

Ha ha ha ha ha! Those threads are all less than twenty pages long, contain off-topic comments, repeated posts from particular malcontents and complaints which contradict other complaints. In any event, it wouldn't matter if you literally had billions of people agreeing with you in perfect tandem, popularity doesn't validate arguments.

 

My opinions are combative? Where is the "attack"? Simply because you disagree doesn't make it an attack.

Am I going to have to explain what the word combative means to you?

 

Your insults that were moderator edited were though.

Congratulations, you've gotten me confused with someone else.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Nartwak

[alanschu]

I'd rather the animations were done the way NWN did them, but I offered a possible alternative, which is more than most people do.

Points for that.

 

 

Also, I found nothing strange about NWN's animations for Great Cleave, and it was enjoyable killing every zombie around me with a greatsword and a single GC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought they looked awkward because he would return to the pose animation between attacks, so he'd quickly be hopping back and forth for his extra attacks.

 

 

The thing is, with the Great Cleave, they should all die at the same time, but it's possible for the zombies around you to stlll hit you as your Great Cleave goes around killing them one at a time.

 

 

But given that I would probably be content with static, unanimated sprites, I am probably atypical.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

The thing is, with the Great Cleave, they should all die at the same time, but it's possible for the zombies around you to stlll hit you as your Great Cleave goes around killing them one at a time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have never had that happen, but than I always let the Dwarf do the cleaving...

[alanschu]

Are you referring to NWN1 or NWN2?

[Riftworm]

Rift, do these awards prove that NWN is better than NWN2?  I'm just curious what we're using as our yardstick for better and worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No I was simply pointing out that to sites that mattered and for the voice of the majority of that time , NWN1 did not suck. Look at who the response was to.

[17243_1556103691]

This is a campaign limitation, and it was stated before the game was released that the NWN2 OC was being designed for singleplayer.

 

If it was designed for single player, wouldnt it actually have been more non linear?

 

I miss NWN's vertex weighted tunics and armors, and hope that a future patch will add this functionality to NWN2. However I don't think it'll happen so long as armor is simply painted onto a model as a skin texture. NWN2 took a shortcut in this regard.

 

The character models and animations in NWN2 are simply terrible. Hopefully they can still overhaul it, but I fear that its already too late. Crap animations, the lack of vertex weighing and downright hideous (both in terms of aesthetics and graphics) player models is just something that we will have to live with.

 

I don't miss this in the outdoor areas. It never made sense that I could stand on a hill and not be able to see clearly the entire forest below me. I'm all for indoor or subterranean fog of war, but not outdoor.

 

I like the fact that there is no fog of war. The only thing bad about it is that it largely invalidates IE style scouting in stealth mode.

 

That's typical PR for you. They'll never admit that someone (or a group of people) dislike their product. It's not good for sales. However, they certainly aren't ignorant of "sour grapes." I'll be happy as long as they continue to support their product, which they are presently doing.

 

I find it disgusting that he is trying to sweep the sentiments of so many disappointed players under the carpet with his blatant, absurd lie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah but what is he going to say "The community is ready to burn us at the stake"..He's trying to keep food on his table. So of course he's in denial of th backlash against NWN2.

[Gorth]

In no paticular order.

 

Cheating a bit with the quotes to circumvent the quote limit...

 

01) Linear Gameplay. The introduction of pathfinding not only removed exploration from the game in that you can no longer wander freely, but forced people to download custom content files to play online. A double step backwards and arguably (next to the overly strict adherence to pen and paper rules) the worst thing about NWN2 today.

 

Linear.... my first thought when completing chapter in NWN1

 

 

02) UI is exceedingly counter-intuitive. The scattered and buried controls make it much harder to control your hero/party than ever thought possible. It crowds the screen that's already so zoomed in you cant see the entire map you're on. The time it takes to organize, buff , and finally attack a hostile in NWN2 is at least 30 seconds longer than in NWN1, and likely much longer for casters or scroll users. For some reason they decided to take away the clearly defined buffs indication icons and replace them with miniture green boxes. Without a magnifying glass you wont be sure what buffs you have.

 

The UI is awesome and logically put together. Finally they got rid of that god-awful killer of joy, the radial menu

 

 

03) Henchmen AI. Ok so before there really was no AI, but at least they knew what to do and not just stand there, run away, or get in the way.

 

Yes, in NWN1 they knew exactly how to make the worst possible decision at any give time. This time around, they actually have a personality and you can vent a bit by beeing mean to them if they piss you off

 

 

04) Details of the game! They all add up. But in NWN2 there aren't enough to add. Remember the seemingly endless list of armor to choose from and how they didn't all include the same round shoulder pad? Yeah gone are those days too. Remember how shields looked solid, and weapons didnt look like 1mm sheets of graphite? NWN2 likes it when your weapons look like 1 mm sheets of graphite.

 

I remember a bunch of near identical armours with a few colour changes here and there. Only difference was which arms went with which legs and so on. All exceedingly ugly.

 

 

05) Corny and overused Spell VFX. Remember how you could actually tell what the oponent was casting, or what buffs he had in NWN1? Remember how impressive you looked when fully buffed in NWN1? Nothing to look at now. In NWN2 The spell vfx are so opaque and similar now that it's hard to tell one from another. Many spells don't even visually match well with the actual spell at all. Some are just flat out corny circles thrown on there with no reference to dimension. I think I saw my grandmothers quilting pattern and my local taco bell clerk's hairnet design!

 

You should try the skill "Spellcraft"

 

 

06) Barely any Creatures! Remember the huge options list you had for NPC's and creature models? Kiss that goodbye. Obsidian seems content on giving you a demo's worth of monsters for NWN2. This may be attributed to the amateurish modeling done by the same part of the team that decided to hide their embarrasing body models with 12 tons of bad looking armor and the same round shoulder pad when naked.

 

Ahh, I see. You are the professional giving the poor amateurs instruction on how to do their job. I'm sure they are now going to listen to you with reverence

 

 

07) Unprofessional Animations. Animations look like day one at Maya 101 ..at a Community College. When my teifling cheers it looks like he's tossing hay bails, when my sorcoress casts spells it looks like she's pouring water. The basic melee animation actually has one less animation than NWN1 2.5 years later...not more..less.

 

We got it, you are the authority on the subject. The part of your resume that details your career exploits in professional game animation must be staggering. Again, does wonders for your credibility

 

 

08) No interior hieght map adjuster! you can no longer build raised terrain in caves. ??? Hello??

 

Echo???....Echo???...echo??? Yeah, it sucks, doesn't it. Makes the game completely unplayable out of the box.

 

09) NWN1's Emotes are outta there. When you see the cheer, you might understand why. I'd be embarrassed too if I was an Obsidian animator.

 

Emotes? Who cares?

 

 

10) Inventory. Why is my scythe the same size as my scroll? And why can't I see either of them? "quick give me this or that item!" --"uhh" uhh" ok" wait" ..."no...hmm...wait think i found it...no, no nevermind that's not it"

 

To get rid of the god-awful Diablo like inventory tetris of the first game ?

 

 

11) No Face Generator? No Body types? Amateurish unorganic looking faces, bodies and hair? 6 years after the Sims and this isn't in a game that is supposed to be built around making your character unique?

 

Yes, yes, we got it the first two times. Your skills in implementing those features in the game engine are way superior since you claim them to be amateurs.

 

 

12) Limited furnishings for interiors are near hovel proportions. Remember the endless selections you had to make your interiors look every bit as unique as the feats and skills of your character? Those theme based object menus are long gone. Everyone is in a log cabin with the same rug and chests now, doesnt matter if you're a king or a peasant.

 

Yeah, Nasher sure lived in a peasant hut. As did some of the other people in Blacklake district.

 

 

13) WASD controls might just as well give error messages now. Try simply running straight using the W key and have laugh at what follows.

 

Anybody actually use those?

 

 

14) Load times. Get the popcorn and cross your finger you don't have to reboot..just from making a transition. NWN2 made good and sure you won't be playing online even if you do manage to find that servers pwc file somehow.

 

Yeah, 5-10 seconds are unbearable. Online players are an insignificant minority. It's declared target group this time around were the players who actually play the game (while still enabling people to do modding).

 

 

15) Portraits. As if NWN2 could be any less immersive they decided to take away even the simplest but profound customizations when they made sure you can't use custom portraits now. No photo realistic heads for you, nope. You're forced to look at that poorly modeled character you regretfully settled for earlier.

 

Oh ****, my face looks like me :'(

 

 

16) Multiplayer nightmare. This one may be the death of NWN2 yet. Not only are clueless noobs never going to join your server because they never knew about pwc files, but if they did find out how to join they'd face the near inability to interact with other players compared to NWN1. No clear way to invite or be invited. No player list for the server. Text screen fly's by, fonts are displayed too small or too large, dialog pauses, transition crashes, entire party's are forced to transition together when just one wants to go increasing the likelihood that more than one of you will crash. It's ugly...real ugly.

 

And the multiplayers are... insignifcant compared to the singleplayers in numbers.

 

 

17) Recycled music and voicesets. Though some of the same voicesets availble for character creation is appreciated, ALL of them are not. Remember the one song you wished stayed from NWN1 was either the taverns or the enchanted peaceful forests? Well the Tavern song is now a hokey ho-down from down south, a knee-slapping number almost country complete if it had the twang accented voice from the tutorial NPC you encounter earlier. The rest is NWN1 digitally unmastered. I actually hear air changes on some of the different voices and expect to hear a cough and a car alarm in the background. Who's obsidians sound guy?

 

The biggest problem here is that they recycled any at all. Most of the NWN1 stuff that wasn't outright bad was forgettable. Crossing fingers and hoping to never hear Aribeths grating voice again in any game/mod/whatever.

 

 

18) Dialog options in the OC are actually less diversified than KotorII. You know what's about happen next, and how to get there. Zzzzzz

 

You are cheating. Comparing to Kotor2 now, are we? That makes it 49 ridiculous claims why you think NWN2 is worse than NWN1, not 50

Unlike NWN1, you can at least use dialogue for something in NWN2.

 

 

19) 3.5 Likeness. They spent so much time trying to adhere to 3.5 rules making the game more pen and paper than playable game, they actually forgot to give RDD's wings, and Palemasters bone grafts. lol..and someone called it "immersive" in the Fine Wine thread.

 

Shudders at the thought of Deekin with wings. I can see how it is problem though, that they tuen a D&D game into a D&D game.

 

 

20) Toolset. This cryptic piece of unintuitive aurora alpha gone wrong could peplex a CIA data analyzer. Why do I need to guess what the x y z is? What about sliders? No Wizards? Good way to make sure only the truly skilled and patient get to work on modding, and leave out everyone else. Why even have item creation with so limited options?

Good luck even seeing the item you want to make in the preview window, it's all blacked out anyways.

 

For a self proclaimed superior game developer and animator, it shouldn't really be a problem. Ask Oerwinde if you need some hints.

 

 

21) Target aquisition is still in beta test right? When I want to click on a hostile I miss and run past him 75% of the time. NWN 1's Bioware team managed to remember people actually need to play this game,

 

The pause button is your friend.

 

 

22) No combat animations for any moves? NWN1 did this better and it's 5 years older. You'd think they'd have made one for cleave, dance of death even?

 

Since cleave (especially greater cleave) is a sequence of events happening out of turn, enlighten us, oh guru of game desigen, how would you illustrate those 20 out of turn attacks without just being a blur?

 

 

23) The Feats list on character creation is stacked for the same type of feat eg: Weapon focus. There's no sub menus? No organization Was this meant to fool us into thinking there were more feats? Bioware managed to streamline that before public release.

 

Or it could be a deliberate attempt at distancing itself from the menu system of

NWN1. Radial menus still brings back bad memories.

 

 

24) Remember how in NWN1 you could simply open a door and walk through, or bash it and do the same? Obsidian wants you to feel challenged so they made doors trap you so you get killed by NPC's or get frustrated and quit the game. I find myself fighting more doors than actual creatures or thugs.

 

I remember a bloodcrazed dwarven monk yelling "Death and Damnation" and bashing my poor crates to cinders...

 

If you doors were bad, you should try fighting Gazebos. I know a cleric named Eric that would love to have you in his party.

 

 

25) Having the ability modify what you want to select/see in the toolset, so that you don't accidently select trees when you mean to grab NPCs, and you don't have a screen cluttered with waypoints when you don't want to be looking at them.

 

No comment. Still to try actually creating a finished module. Modding doesn't interest me.

 

 

26) Remember how in NWN1 multiplayer you could zoom out and see the map as needed when big wars between factions/guilds or psimply party's broke out? In NWN2 Obsidian felt it better that you can;t plan ahead and that you can only select a hostile when they get real close and that's if your cursor even works and doesnt click past them.

 

Ah yes, multiplayer... I've heard rumours about those things happening.

 

 

27) Remember how you had to get near an area to reveal it in NWN1? Remember the excitement that generated when you couldn't tell where you might be going? There is no Fog of War in NWN2.

 

I hated it as much as I did in BG2. Damn nearsighted elves can't see more than 30 meters without turning blind.

 

 

28) You can't die in NWN2. You're forced to endure more of the same hour long inevitable foregone conclusion dialouge and "AI Party mumbers do it for me or run away" combat. No but seriously you can't die.

 

I see, you love the load times, so it doesn't bother you to experiment a bit every now and then with different tactics and then reload?

 

 

29) Why are all rooftops the same peat moss and straw? That never happened in NWN1. When you went somewhere in NWN1 you knew it was somewhere different than the place you just left. Now, The rooftops have the NWN2 shoulder pad syndrome, theyre all the same.

 

Peat moss and straw is a very common building material on the Sword Coast ?

Not uncommon for mediaval buildings to share a certain similarity in building style and materials.

 

 

30) Remember how you could put everything you needed into your quickslots? For NWN2 Obsidian fancied hiding your combat modes in the far reaches of the bottom right of your monitor so much that they made good and sure you have to go there to find tiny combat mode buttons to switch, not intuitively in the middle where they belong in quickslots.

 

Yeah, it really sucks playing on those 42" plasma screens. Modes disappearing completely off your field of vision.

 

 

31) Remeber hwo you could just walk up to a peasant and bhead him if you so chose in NWN1? Maybe you wanted some evil points or possible loot. Well Obsidian in all of their Disney Splendor decided to protect the random villager and spare them from your fury now as you can no longer randomly attack non combatants.

 

The ultimate in immersiveness. Peasant executions. Personally I'm a campaigner for more Ritual Virgin Sacrifice ™ in crpgs, but nobody listen to that either.

 

 

32) To further compound the above issue, you cant make a non hostile hostile. How does this fair for PVP? Well take a look at how like 2 people are playing online total and figure it out. NWN had the foresight to knwo that basic fundamental option needed to be there.

 

Yes, a fundamental need to behead innocent peasants in coop, how dare they? Blame it on the all being leftist reactionary Californians. If that fail, play the "Terrorist" card. Make sure those peasants suffer.

 

 

33) NWN1 though limited graphically still managed to make armor and weapons look believable. Armor and weaponry looks unresearched in NWN2 . None of it looks either Forgotten realms authentic or conventional Medieval.

 

Believable, maybe. That would make them ugly but believable.

 

 

34) Remember how in NWN1 you could see all of your character stats right there at once? Now you can't even see your actual AB and BAB in the same locaition let alone item bonuses.

 

Since most of my memories of NWN1 are bad, I would rather compare it to the IE games, they were nice.

 

 

35) Um..Hair anyone? Obsidian should be saying: "Can we get a pro in here?"

Ah yes, you are the pro. Why don't you show some examples of how you would program the engine to support better hair without choking it? Don't tell me, you are also an authority on hairstyles besides game engine programming and animation? The girls are going to be all over you :cool:

 

 

36) Casters suck now. Remember how being a caster was a viable option in PVP or even OC? Yeah well your level 20 gets like 10 spells total for some reason. Good luck with that.

 

Caster was not a viable option in NWN OC because of the god-awful radial menu system. Not even with a lot of quickslots used.

 

 

37) Underwear? Why are my PC's underwear enough to arm a milita? Is this because the modelers were trying to hide the poor body modeling they "baked" down and rushed out?

 

Now we are getting somewhere. There is no option for g-strings and chainmail bikinis... this is probably more a reason for resentment than many of the other pointless points (I might add that it would have been nice with a dial to adjust breast and male genital size too).

 

 

38) PVP? Once a staple of NWN1 This new game has been stripped and reduced down so badly that PVP isn't anything more than two unbeleivebly poorly modeled meshes with shoulderpads making 1985 animations to attack one another and the ensuing death doesn't even look real provided you can even kill each other.

 

This such an outright lie, that I can't even be bothered to post screenshots of 1985 games.

 

 

39) Minimap is far inferior to the basic Map of NWN1. At least in that you knew where you were going. try to follow the minimap going from a to b...no seriously try it. Make that square already.

 

Good riddance to squares, tiles, 45 degree ramps, etc. If they did a minimap like in IWD2 however...

 

 

40) Quests dont remove quest items on completion. I'm left being confused as if I even finished the quest even after I know I did eg: recovery of an item. NWN1 managed that on release.

 

Haven't run across that one.

I have a few quest items in my inventory that I can't sell, so I just dump them in my favourite barrel.

 

 

41) Remember CEP's great models for NWN1? Custom modeling is made so inaccesible because Obsidian thought their horrid models looked good enough to restrict from public access. So there is no option to tweak their meshes or get an idea of what we can all rebuild to work in game.

 

And if somebody releases a CEP for NWN2 in a few years time, who knows? It might have some interesting stuff in there too.

 

 

42) No sense of weight or flex tension to any of the characters! Bioware looks like a George Lucas Movie team compared to the Obsidian portfolio day work on animation model naturalism. NWN2 boasts flmsy beta characters that look like line drawings weilding plastic swords skating across the ground like some bad action figure frame animation.

 

So, we are now down to 38 reasons as this is just repetion. You like hearing your own voice much?

 

 

43) Camera's. I've heard these were patched, but man o man, if you don;t have that patch I feel sorry for you. This was a non issue for NWN1.

 

As in? The cameras are great, both pre- and post patch.

 

 

44) Remember how NWN1 "felt" epic? The overall look and feel and mood of NWN2 was left unrealized when somewhere between the art director and the project lead they lost focus when trying to reinvent the wheel. This quote by Echolocating seems fitting: -- "I

[roshan]

I know he didnt have a real choice except to say that, but its still disgusting and absurd.

[Kelverin]

How is NWN2 selling?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No real numbers but here is a link

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter...tml?sid=6162272

 

What's interesting to me is either it is selling out or stores did not order enough copies. The last two weeks while shopping/browsing at both Fry's electronics/Wal-mart I have seen exactly one copy of the game for sale.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Kelverin

[Riftworm]

quote=Gorth,Nov 24 2006, 05:50 PM

 

To Gorth --

 

 

Linear.... my first thought when completing chapter in NWN1

 

But you could still explore... Now your path is formulaic and pre-defined.

 

 

The UI is awesome and logically put together. Finally they got rid of that god-awful killer of joy, the radial menu

 

Not for ease of use, effeciency ect. And you're way out numbered on this one. See bioware forums.

 

 

Yes, in NWN1 they knew exactly how to make the worst possible decision at any give time. This time around, they actually have a personality and you can vent a bit by beeing mean to them if they piss you off

 

AI is almost as big a complaint as UI.

 

 

I remember a bunch of near identical armours with a few colour changes here and there. Only difference was which arms went with which legs and so on. All exceedingly ugly.

 

That's nice but now there's even less options and everyone has round shoulder pads.

 

 

You should try the skill "Spellcraft"

 

What does making saves versus a spell have to do with me bineg unable to visually identfy them and them being generally ugly vfx?

 

 

 

 

Ahh, I see. You are the professional giving the poor amateurs instruction on how to do their job. I'm sure they are now going to listen to you with reverence

 

Actually when it comes to models and texturing, yes ..I can. My portfolio at CG Society http://gkaine.cgsociety.org/gallery/

 

 

 

We got it, you are the authority on the subject. The part of your resume that details your career exploits in professional game animation must be staggering. Again, does wonders for your credibility

 

it's my opinion that the animations are much worse than in NWN1 ..yes. Have you any experience with animationg or modeling to question my judgement? It's subjective in any case, I prefer the smoother more natural appearing animations of NWN1 yes.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it sucks, doesn't it. Makes the game completely unplayable out of the box.

 

Didn;t say that but it does suck quite a bit from my perspective to take out such a 'glaring feature' as roshan put it.

 

 

Emotes? Who cares?

 

I do.

 

 

 

 

To get rid of the god-awful Diablo like inventory tetris of the first game ?

 

In my opinion it is worse to have your items all the same size and all so small you can't quickly identfiy them yes. In multiplayer online speed is important. I suppose since you languish and sloth about offline and can afford to play without the challenges of online play you may not need a change and can remain apathetic.

 

 

 

Yes, yes, we got it the first two times. Your skills in implementing those features in the game engine are way superior since you claim them to be amateurs.

 

No, I simply pointed out this is why NWN1 was better. Bioware managed to do it.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Nasher sure lived in a peasant hut. As did some of the other people in Blacklake district.

 

Far less furnishings. Less theme sets, trust me I mod and I know. You don't so dont know.

 

 

Anybody actually use those?

 

Everyone complainging about it at Bioware. Where have you been?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, 5-10 seconds are unbearable. Online players are an insignificant minority. It's declared target group this time around were the players who actually play the game (while still enabling people to do modding).

 

I doubt Obsidian thinks of multiplayers as insignificant, despite that you cant play online yourself.

 

 

 

Oh ****, my face looks like me :'(

 

Is this a valid argument where you're from?

 

 

 

 

And the multiplayers are... insignifcant compared to the singleplayers in numbers.

 

So according to you Obsidian should ignore the multiplayers altogether and not fix those things?

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem here is that they recycled any at all. Most of the NWN1 stuff that wasn't outright bad was forgettable. Crossing fingers and hoping to never hear Aribeths grating voice again in any game/mod/whatever.

 

Outright bad? Forgettable? The Scores that drew rave reviews in the awards Bioware won?

 

 

You are cheating. Comparing to Kotor2 now, are we? That makes it 49 ridiculous claims why you think NWN2 is worse than NWN1, not 50

Unlike NWN1, you can at least use dialogue for something in NWN2.

 

Yeah shame on me for making fun of the dialog...

 

 

 

 

Shudders at the thought of Deekin with wings. I can see how it is problem though, that they tuen a D&D game into a D&D game.

 

Since when was Deekin an RDD? I'm talking about the PC characters, your hero..yknow..hellooo?

 

 

 

 

For a self proclaimed superior game developer and animator, it shouldn't really be a problem. Ask Oerwinde if you need some hints.

 

My point is it's a step backwards to intentionally ommit ease of use. and indirectly occlude so many from being able to mod.

 

 

The pause button is your friend.

 

Not online it's not

 

 

Since cleave (especially greater cleave) is a sequence of events happening out of turn, enlighten us, oh guru of game desigen, how would you illustrate those 20 out of turn attacks without just being a blur?

 

With a ghosted transparanet image to simulate movement.

 

Or it could be a deliberate attempt at distancing itself from the menu system of

NWN1. Radial menus still brings back bad memories.

 

What do radial menus have to do with unorganized feats selections at the character creation screen?

 

 

 

I remember a bloodcrazed dwarven monk yelling "Death and Damnation" and bashing my poor crates to cinders...

 

If you doors were bad, you should try fighting Gazebos. I know a cleric named Eric that would love to have you in his party.

 

That's funny and all but I still get stuck in doors.

 

 

No comment. Still to try actually creating a finished module. Modding doesn't interest me.

 

That's nice,it does me. And probably half of the community.

 

 

Ah yes, multiplayer... I've heard rumours about those things happening.

 

You mean "the death of"?.

 

 

I hated it as much as I did in BG2. Damn nearsighted elves can't see more than 30 meters without turning blind.

 

No Fog of war..in an RPG..

 

 

I see, you love the load times, so it doesn't bother you to experiment a bit every now and then with different tactics and then reload?

 

Rigth i enjoy endless load times from subpar games when my computer is maybe the best thing on the market today.

 

Peat moss and straw is a very common building material on the Sword Coast ?

Not uncommon for mediaval buildings to share a certain similarity in building style and materials.

 

You sounds like a sleezy car salesman trying his best to sell me a lemon. The truth is, no..it's not ok for every single roof to be the same, or every single building for that matter.

 

Yeah, it really sucks playing on those 42" plasma screens. Modes disappearing completely off your field of vision.

 

No, just 20' and it's worse than it was before.

 

 

 

The ultimate in immersiveness. Peasant executions. Personally I'm a campaigner for more Ritual Virgin Sacrifice in crpgs, but nobody listen to that either.

 

At the very least it's realistic. If you're going to take away exploring off of paths, don;t ALSO take away my freedom to kill at will.

 

 

Yes, a fundamental need to behead innocent peasants in coop, how dare they? Blame it on the all being leftist reactionary Californians. If that fail, play the "Terrorist" card. Make sure those peasants suffer.

 

The principle. If I want to do that in an RPG, I should be able to do it. If I'm evil, if I just feel like it there should be no reason not to.

 

Believable, maybe. That would make them ugly but believable.

 

NWN1 weapons were accurate in many cases and both attractive and beleivable. Now swords are just 1 mm slabs of granite. Theyre neither attractive or beleiveble.

 

 

 

Since most of my memories of NWN1 are bad, I would rather compare it to the IE games, they were nice.

 

The RPG of the Year Award say if you didn't like NWN1 in the minority there.

 

 

 

35) Um..Hair anyone? Obsidian should be saying: "Can we get a pro in here?"

Ah yes, you are the pro. Why don't you show some examples of how you would program the engine to support better hair without choking it? Don't tell me, you are also an authority on hairstyles besides game engine programming and animation? The girls are going to be all over you :cool:

 

 

Caster was not a viable option in NWN OC because of the god-awful radial menu system. Not even with a lot of quickslots used.

 

Not from my experience.. the quickslots did fine. No one used the radial menu in combat, only to set things up when one had time. Casters suck now since the brutally strict adherence to 3.5 they don't have enough spells to dfend themselves or win any substantial battles. In NWN1 you could literally fight alone if you knew how to build, now? pfft Casters blwo so abd now they need a party even with the best build.

 

 

Now we are getting somewhere. There is no option for g-strings and chainmail bikinis... this is probably more a reason for resentment than many of the other pointless points (I might add that it would have been nice with a dial to adjust breast and male genital size too).

 

No, it justtadds to the sense of realism. And convinces me the modelers knwo what theyre doing, which hasn;t happened yet.

 

 

 

This such an outright lie, that I can't even be bothered to post screenshots of 1985 games.

 

How would you know? You admittedly don't PVP, mod, or much of anything else from what I've heard.

 

 

Good riddance to squares, tiles, 45 degree ramps, etc. If they did a minimap like in IWD2 however...

 

Circular minimaps with no path revealing is as pointless as throwing a circular blob up there..oh wait, they did that ..nm.

 

 

 

Haven't run across that one.

I have a few quest items in my inventory that I can't sell, so I just dump them in my favourite barrel.

 

Quest Items in barrels and you have no complaints...If all NWN fans were as easy to please as you Obsidian could put put Gauntlet 1 and name it NWN2 and youd be ahppy.

 

 

And if somebody releases a CEP for NWN2 in a few years time, who knows? It might have some interesting stuff in there too.

 

But no custom models...one of the main things the CEP team worked on..

 

 

So, we are now down to 38 reasons as this is just repetion. You like hearing your own voice much?

 

That's the best argument you could come up with? Is your well running dry? Actually you;ve yet to argue anything, it's been all apathy on your part up to here.

 

 

As in? The cameras are great, both pre- and post patch.

 

lol...Obsidian we finally found one. Someone that liked your pre-patch cameras.

 

 

 

 

I remember how NWN1 felt incredibly dull and uninspired. I managed through teeth grinding and an inbred stubborness to persevere until mid chapter 4 after which boredom won out and the game got uninstalled, never to return (and good riddance).

 

You're right about the NWN1 OC to some degree, but online play and custom content is what fuels these games for the long haul. Don't forget that.

 

 

 

I've never had anything as low as 20fps on either game.

 

How nice for you, I get 15 fps on a system that blows yours away.

 

 

 

 

Essential combat bugs? I've found one noticable bug so far (during scripted party changes, you added party member leaves his/her brain back in the inn and gets stuck in puppet mode).

 

Read the 1.03 patch list you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

 

Maybe, but the sorry excuse for a game leading up to that "glorious" ending (whatever it might have been) does require a lot of redemption from the ending.

 

It was rushed..

 

 

Because D&D games are (losely) based on D&D rules?

Since this is a duplicate, we are now at what, 47?

 

Even Bioware knew overbearing Adherence to the rules didn;t translate to the game. They got that right. Obsidian got that wrong.

 

 

A sequel will due to it's nature of being a sequel rqarely ever have the "Wow" factor.

 

That's untrue, and frankly sounds a inexperienced and misinformed. I was "wowed" by BG2, Oblivion, World of Warcraft and a host of other games that other's were also "wowed" by.

 

 

Boring, Linear, Ugly, Non Immersive, Easy, and Annoying are all things I did feel in NWN1. The game just dragged on and on until it was painful. Looking forward to my second game of NWN2

 

That's nice for you. I hope to someday as well. As it stands now this game looks and feels "alpha" stage to me.

 

 

>

[Volourn]

Anyone who thinks NWN2 is less linear than NWN1 is drunk. NWN1 is not the most non liena rgame ever but it sure CRUSHES NWN2 in that regard. I didn't feel in restricted. The only thing restrictive about NWN1 OC were the modules; but within a module/chapter; the game was very non linear. NWN2 OC is basically area toa rea to complete the main quest. Only the Keep breaks them up.

 

As for sales comparisons, I think it's pretty silly to compare them. First off, it's pretty much unlikely NWN2 will outsell NWN1, and in the end it doesn't neccesarily have to do with which one is better.

 

People seem, also forget that while NWN1 when a bunch of awards or selling a lot ovf copies may not prove anything about its qualioty or how much fans like it; but its longtivity not just in how lonmg people palyed it but for how it sold.

 

IIRC, NWN stayed in the top 10 games for a few months (only a select few games like WC and Sims usually do that), and on top of that NWN also happened tor egained top seller status when their expansions came out - not just the expansions themselves, but compliations, and NWN1 seperately. I think that's where we'll be able to compare them.

 

Plus, professional reviewers weren't the only ones who really liked NWN - so did the players hence its high ratings. NWN2's ratings so far by player shave been lower. Yeah, yeah. I know. Those who prefer NWN1 must be stupid.

 

R00fles!

 

You know, NWN2 OC kinda reminds of BL. A game I should be proud to say 'one of my fave games ever'; but in the end it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Bl was the absolute crap combat and NWN2 OC it's the totally linear and one dimensional and quite frnakly boring main story. And, the one thing iw as prepared to love - the joinable npcs - which as a group are as great as any game including BG2, PST, and JE - is hamstringed by the annoying forced upon NPCs. The same problme JE had; but thankfully while JE had some npcs I disliked; none of them were of the type I absoplutely wanted to break my computer over just to get rid of them.

 

NWN2 is a good game that I enjoyed. Just like the NWN1 OC. Neithe rone of them are of the elite.

 

P.S. There is no way anyone saw Desther and figured out the entire plot of the game. Ch1's plot yes; the whole plot no. Heck, I'm sure those who claim this probably wopuld also claim they KNEW that Fenthick wasn't really inchoots but was just a poor patsy even though they didn't.

 

D0uble R00fles!