NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[Gfted1]

Is there an Inn at Highcliff or am I just friggin blind?

[Dark_Raven]

No Inns. You get to sleep on the ground. There's only one building you can enter and that is a little mini quest that you get to do.

 

Another beef I have is you should be able to go into buildings like you could in BG1. WTF is up with that? Sounds like lazy design.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Dark_Raven

[Gorth]

@Both Dark Raven & Pidesco: Thanks

[Volourn]

"Another beef I have is you should be able to go into buildings like you could in BG1."

 

Forget BG1. How about the game it's a sequel to? I've never seen a game so afraid of inside buildings like NWN2 seems to me. It's like they do everything they can not to add an inside area. I think Sand's little store (only one I cna think of off hand) is one of the very few stores that are inside a building not counting the dwarven one since that's a mountain stronghold.

 

 

Actually, as I;m typing, the player stronghyold seems to do inside building stores well enough oustide of the weapon and armoursmiths.

[Jorian Drake]

"Another beef I have is you should be able to go into buildings like you could in BG1."

 

Forget BG1. How about the game it's a sequel to? I've never seen a game so afraid of inside buildings like NWN2 seems to me. It's like they do everything they can not to add an inside area. I think Sand's little store (only one I cna think of off hand) is one of the very few stores that are inside a building not counting the dwarven one since that's a mountain stronghold.

 

 

Actually, as I;m typing, the player stronghyold seems to do inside building stores well enough oustide of the weapon and armoursmiths.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Talk about 'cut outs'

 

 

Content could only be even more cut out, if you walk on a road and suddenly you see a sign about 'STOP! Unfinished Module Road Ends HERE'

[Dark_Raven]

"Another beef I have is you should be able to go into buildings like you could in BG1."

 

Forget BG1. How about the game it's a sequel to? I've never seen a game so afraid of inside buildings like NWN2 seems to me. It's like they do everything they can not to add an inside area. I think Sand's little store (only one I cna think of off hand) is one of the very few stores that are inside a building not counting the dwarven one since that's a mountain stronghold.

 

 

Actually, as I;m typing, the player stronghyold seems to do inside building stores well enough oustide of the weapon and armoursmiths.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laziness. How hard is it to add an extra area that has some extra loot or people inside? If a door is locked, break it down. You go inside to rob the place and the guards are summoned on you. Not too difficult.

[Oerwinde]

Heres a weird thing about the highcliff inn:

When you're there the first time, they say theres an inn and a tavern, these are pretty easy to find, both have signs out front. Neither you are able to enter. When you go back during act 3 with the lizardling siege, the door to the inn is active. But if you try to open it, it says it requires a specific key.

 

Anyone know where the key is or if thats just a bug?

 

[Pop]

There are a lot of active but inactive doors in NWN2. All the doors in Ember are usable, but they're all locked, and you never enter them. One wonders why they were included at all when most of the other areas don't even bother.

 

Are sub-areas that much of a problem, or was that simply a part of the game that couldn't be implemented due to cuts or time constraints or whatever? Because if it's the former at the very least it's problematic from a custom content standpoint.

[Dark_Raven]

Yay for cut content!

 

See what happens when people rush game developers, simple things like this get the ax.

[Volourn]

NWN2 wasn't rushed. It had as much dev time as BG2. Every game has cut content. It doens't mean the game was rushed.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Volourn

[Oerwinde]

Building interiors is something that could easily be modded into the game. They just weren't important enough for the devs to bother. I think NWN2 seems remarkably complete considering the state of RPGs lately.

[Darque]

NWN2 wasn't rushed. It had as much dev time as BG2. Every game has cut content. It doens't mean the game was rushed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed.

[Spider]

There are a lot of active but inactive doors in NWN2. All the doors in Ember are usable, but they're all locked, and you never enter them. One wonders why they were included at all when most of the other areas don't even bother.

 

Are sub-areas that much of a problem, or was that simply a part of the game that couldn't be implemented due to cuts or time constraints or whatever? Because if it's the former at the very least it's problematic from a custom content standpoint.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't the ambushers in Ember come out through those doors? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.

 

Edit: Didn't BG2 have 3-4 years of devtime and NWN2 only 2? Even if not, I'm guessing there is a difference in time used when a new graphics engine needs to be writtn rather than using (and updating) an existing engine. Should account for 6 months at least

Edited November 22, 2006 by Spider

[Dark_Raven]

Still no reason to have such an empty place to explore. I'm an explorer, I so dislike dead end towns. Would be nice if you could go on board the ships.

[Darque]

I'm an explorer too, and I felt like I was drowning by the end of the game... well, end of chapter one anyway.

 

More optional content, and even chapter distribution would have been nice.

 

That's what I love about Fallout 2 and Baldur's Gate... so many optionals.

[Dark_Raven]

BG was the greatest when it came to exploring various areas and places and mini quests. What happen to a great formula like that? Even BG2 didn't live up to that, not in many areas to explore at least.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Dark_Raven

[Darque]

Agreed.

 

BG did it right.

 

I'm hoping Mass Effect will have some of the same format, since the game looks to be huge. It can't possibly be ALL about the main story.

[Deraldin]

I've just started my third game now. Going with an armoured, butt-kicking battle cleric of Tempus. Those damn skeletons and thier slashing resistance won't foil me this time! *laughs maniacally*

[Tigranes]

I understand that quite a few criticised BG because each wilderness area, you'd often walk around (slowly, too) for 10 minutes to come across one encounter. Those encounters were golden though, and in true pnp style; and especially with graphics nowadays, which are just starting to be as good as the best of 2D (so far it has been inferior, IMO), we could really do with something like that.

 

Oblivion and Gothic probably do it very similarly though. In fact, they DO use the BG model, just with a different representation. You're still walking along anywhere and everywhere on the world map and finding random things. I think mods in NWN2 can definitely do a BG-style world creation because of the World Map; I know I'll be oding that if I ever finish a mod.

[Pop]

Agreed.

 

BG did it right.

 

I'm hoping Mass Effect will have some of the same format, since the game looks to be huge. It can't possibly be ALL about the main story. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God, I can't remember a single area from any Bioware game post-KOTOR that didn't play some part in a quest. Most of BG1 was completely aimless, BG2 not so much, but it still felt big. I'd bet money on Mass Effect being in the vein of KOTOR, just with bigger relevant areas. It does look more free-form, but such footage is easily contextualized.

 

Much as I'd hate to admit it, quality non-linear RPGs are pretty much dead. I'd cite Oblivion, but it was extreme non-linearity: the parts of the game that had a point didn't really have a point either.

 

I don't know how a big BG wilderness would go down in a game like NWN2 (assuming the engine could render it) the lack of an isometric perspective would no doubt make it seem longer than it would be.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Pop

[Pidesco]

BG had sometimes a huge, empty area where all you could do was walk around aimlessly, with one NPC sitting around waiting for you to arrive. That kind of exploration was mostly pointless. The world of BG1 felt generally empty.

[Darque]

I've just started my third game now. Going with an armoured, butt-kicking battle cleric of Tempus. Those damn skeletons and thier slashing resistance won't foil me this time! *laughs maniacally*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Show no mercy

[Dark_Raven]

BG had sometimes a huge, empty area where all you could do was walk around aimlessly, with one NPC sitting around waiting for you to arrive. That kind of exploration was mostly pointless. The world of BG1 felt generally empty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was fullfilling and realistic. Try exploring those wooded areas at night. Bandits and other nasties spawn in. BG fullfilled my PnP needs, NWN2 came pretty close. I'm not knocking the game, I like it, it's the best RPG I have played in a while. Little things like more quests, buildings to explore, wilderness areas to explore go a long way with me.

[Tigranes]

the lack of an isometric perspective would no doubt make it seem longer than it would be.

 

But Pop, I play NWN2 in pseudo-isometric. Doesn't feel that different than IE view TBH.

 

BG had sometimes a huge, empty area where all you could do was walk around aimlessly, with one NPC sitting around waiting for you to arrive. That kind of exploration was mostly pointless. The world of BG1 felt generally empty.

 

I think it was because the kind of things the player could interact was pretty limited in BG1. It wasn't as innovative with the game engine as some later games are. Usually it was either "NPC walks up to you" or "You see monster" or "You find rare item". There aren't magical portals ou can uncover, or elaborate magical traps, or whatever. The scripting wasn't as advanced; Ithink NWN2 mods could do a lot more in the BG style and make it feel less empty.

 

Even so, BG was wonderful and still has a charm of its own, I still play it.

[Volourn]

"I'm hoping Mass Effect will have some of the same format, since the game looks to be huge. It can't possibly be ALL about the main story."

 

IIRC, Bio stated that the main story is 25-35 hours long and optional stuff can be another 20-40 hours. Not sure about the exact numbers; but the number of optional area seems to be really high. I doubt it'll be MW or even BG free reign; but it shouldn't be as confining as KOTOR or NWN2.