NWN2 only 20 hours long?

[StillLife]

And let's not forget forget industry pressures to drive up development costs.

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Very true.

[alanschu]

Does not matter. There is no way for them to track it. Maybe less than 10% bought premuim mods but the sites that hosted user made modules\haks had no affilitaion with Bioware and therefore there is no way to know what percentage of gamers made use of custom made content. The CEP alone had more than a million downloads.  It is an untrackable metric and whoever said it was whistling in the wind. Yes, they were guessing, as I am and I'd say I'm probably closer to being right.

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Why is it untrackable?

 

Bugs don't bother me.

 

Depends on the bug I think.

 

Would you be bothered with flickering GFX... guess not

Would you be bothered if you were placed in prison, only to find in order to escape you needed X and you had sold X... then I guess you will be bothered, no?

 

Also wouldn't you be bothered by exploits if playing online against others???

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That's not actually a bug. Exploits typically aren't bugs either.

 

Sure, but after HoW, I can't see the point to a developer ever giving external estimates on game length.  If you estimate low, you disappoint people before the game is even out.  If you estimate high, you disappoint people after the game comes out.  In both cases, it's complete guesswork.  Obviously, given HoW and IWD2, the BIS krew (including me) proved they were incapable of accurately gauging game length.  I don't think Obsidian is really any better in that regard.

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Then don't guess or give estimates. Simple, eh?

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Then that would piss people like you off. If they didn't say anything, and you bought it, you'd bitch because it's too short.

 

 

Disappointing paying customers hurts us more.  I'd rather someone hear bad things about our game and not buy it than buy it and get angry because they feel they were misled.

 

That is definitely an attitude I can very much respect and appreciate.

 

 

Wait a minute!

[LoneWolf16]

Then don't guess or give estimates.  Simple, eh?

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Then that would piss people like you off. If they didn't say anything, and you bought it, you'd bitch because it's too short.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Truth.

[Tigranes]

It's standard industry practice now to give estimates, so a lack of that information might put people off. As well as publishers/etc. Besides, reviewers will soon get to tagging them on anyway.

[alanschu]

HOTU is mp. I know this as a fact as I've played it mp.

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Hordes of the Underdark was not developed with MP in mind. Bioware explained this, and cited their reasons as the large amount of research they had done determining the fanbase of the NWN community (where they concluded the vast majority of them were SP only players). Furthermore, they also felt that making the campaigns for SoU and the OC work with MP compromised the quality of the single player campaign.

 

It may have been patched to support it eventually, but it definitely did not when first released.

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...ght=multiplayer

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...layer+underdark

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...layer+underdark

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...layer+underdark

 

 

I took part in it so I already it. There was no proof that it was a finaincail failure to the only people who matter - BIO and MS. More than once they have stated quite clearly that they are more than happy with JE's performance.

 

No they didn't.

Edited April 24, 2006 by alanschu

[alanschu]

You've got to admit that attitude about consoles is very prevalent on these boards even from people who have little to no experience with consoles.

 

I have some experience with games that have been hindranced and sometimes severly handicapped because of the Xbox, which in itself is enough to make me sneer at those devices...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

- consoles steal games from the PC with exclusives

- consoles make you buy a 400$ toy just to play games on

- console-to-PC ports

- console games are more expensive for no reason

- its impossible to make software for a console without paying big $$$ to MS or Sony

 

 

..and the list goes on and on ad infinitum

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

PCs make you pay $400+ for a single component. Knock consoles if you want, but your just being obtuse if you think the cost is a detriment.

[Cantousent]

Okay, Joseph, you might play a lot of games, but I think we've established that the message board is providing the most entertainment to you right now.

[alanschu]

And I told you not to be ashamed of the odd double post "

[Blank]

20 hours is ok for a game that has fancy mod tools as one of its main features, except for someone like me who realized that NWN mods were generally pretty terrible.  Wading through professional fantasy cheese is bad enough, playing through little Billy the fifteen year-old's epic fantasy vision of continuous, mass goblin slaying is even worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here ya go. These are from le competition done on the Bioboards a little bit ago. They must be good enough to beat out the numerous other mods... or for your sake i hope so.

[Cantousent]

And I told you not to be ashamed of the odd double post "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolutely shameless!

[Fenghuang]

If it's good who cares how long it is?

[Volourn]

"No they didn't."

 

Yes, they have. Repeatedly. Over, and over again. Verbatim. In interviews, on the message board, and on, and on, and on.

[alanschu]

"No they didn't."

 

Yes, they have. Repeatedly. Over, and over again. Verbatim. In interviews, on the message board, and on, and on, and on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

"More than happy?"

 

Maybe in the same universe where Hordes of the Underdark was released with MP support.

[Fenghuang]

IF IT'S GOOD WHO CARES HOW LONG IT IS!!!

[Volourn]

"Maybe in the same universe where Hordes of the Underdark was released with MP support."

 

Bottom line is I played HOTU in MP. It must have been magic spell that accomplished that.

[alanschu]

Despite Bioware themselves stating, explicitly, that the game did not support multiplayer when it was released.

 

I guess you didn't pick it up when it was released. I suppose that's also why there's a nineteen page thread dedicated to finding work arounds so that you can play it appropriately in multiplayer. According to that thread it sounds like there may have been a patch released some time between October 2004 and February 2005, because the Feb 2005 posts seem to indicate that people were no longer having problems playing it in multiplayer. The link that the moderator kept linking to where Bioware explicitly stated that the expansion campaign was intentionally not supporting multiplayer now links back to the main forum page.

 

 

EDIT: Heck, you can even see me posting my disappointment in this thread.

Edited April 24, 2006 by alanschu

[Volourn]

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. I have played HOTU in MP.

 

 

P.S. They may not have designed it with MP in mind; but that doesn't mean it's not playable in MP. Afterall, NWN was not deisgned with PWs in mind; but there's no disputing the existence and popularity of PWs.

 

Checkmate.

 

You lose.

[alanschu]

Bioware admitted that the MP in HotU was broken. That's a fact.

 

It's why people had to use the Stone of Recall to skip past the introduction (because all but the main character were actually ACTIVE characters in the sequence. I killed the Drow Priestess 2 minutes into the game). This is a fact.

 

It's why, when trying to lower yourself into the Undermountain after someone else did, Durnan told you that access was limited to <player X> where Player X was the player that just went down. I couldn't actually follow him down. This is a fact.

 

Since you obviously don't visit the NWN forums (or at least didn't when HotU was released), you don't know what you're talking about. The MP was hideously broken, and Bioware was going nuts talking about how they never said that the campaign supported MP, and if you look at the box, they were right.

 

Besides, I was never questioning whether or not you played it.

 

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. I have played HOTU in MP.

 

So this statement is pointless, since I wasn't addressing that.

 

 

P.S. They may not have designed it with MP in mind; but that doesn't mean it's not playable in MP.

 

If you consider abusing Stone of Recall, and modifying scripts as "playable" then yeah, sure.

[Guard Dog]

PCs make you pay $400+ for a single component.  Knock consoles if you want, but your just being obtuse if you think the cost is a detriment.

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I don't own a console and will never buy one because they are a one-trick-pony, but you do have a point there. The GeForce 7800 I bought to play Oblivion cost about as much as that new Xbox, and will probably become obsolete quicker. I delude myself by saying a new video card is for more thyan just gaming. Heck I've convinced myself that MSWord and Excel run better with it. Please don't shatter my delusion.

[mkreku]

DQ8 is horrible. I played a couple of hours, and I was bored out of my mind. One of the worst Japanese RPGs ever, and it spits on the face of the great Dragon Warrior series.

Gee, I wonder why one of us gets paid to do reviews and one doesn't )

 

I know that's disgustingly arrogant of me (the above), but you're the type of person that wouldn't know quality if it ran up to you and hit you in the face with a 2 by 4. I mean, you think that Neverwinter Nights in single player is a good game..

[Tigranes]

And that's a fine hook from mkreku on the mystical volo!

 

Seems to me that Volo probably played it after the patch/fix was released and never noticed. Although I'd expect him of all people to have an idea of the furores that erupt at Bio-land.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

DQ VIII is a bit of a slow starter. But once you get into the meat of the game it's incredible.

 

I'm 40 hours in at the moment and I doubt I'm even half way through.

 

Took about 10 hours just to gather the full party.

[Dark_Raven]

I think it took me 60+ hours to beat Fallout 2

 

Fallout was a breeze though, but I played it after F2 so that's to be expected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It took me about that much time with F2 and F1. Lots of places to explore and loot to find.

[Dark_Raven]

"It's kept me reading for 30 pages"

 

We do this because we love you! :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. We love the Obsidian developers.

[Junai]

A lot of people in their late 20s and early 30s simply don't have the time (or don't want to make the time) to become embroiled in 60+ hour games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You guys actually did some research/polls on this? I'm sure people in that age-group don't want to cough up 50 bucks for a game they can beat in a weekend. If you buy a game, you want to play it for a while, no? Also, I've heard this comment before, and I must say I find it particularily ridiculous when it comes from people who frequent these boards for years waiting for a game, only to hear them say: hey, gimme a 20 hrs game, you see I don't have a lot of time to play these days.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Junai