Iseo Tiakan Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 I'm never quite sure whether to feel envious or sorry for the people who were actually suprised by that rather feeble plottwist. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How condescending.
dufflover Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 All those little hints (which most people wouldn't realise they were during first play) about Revan and when it all came together was much better than the whole Kreia story - I agree, just a crazy old witch. Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread) Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)
Darth Blivion Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 Kotor2 made an effort at complexity kotor didn't even try. Kotor2 gets my vote My vote is in the minority. Oh! Crap- Disgruntled Kotor2 fan.
Padmi Skydrunkard Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 I enjoy a well done game. KOTOR! (w00t) I'm not saying I don't like KOTOR2, just not as much, with all major dissapointments involved.
dufflover Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 Kotor2 made an effort at complexitykotor didn't even try. Yeh, they made an effort and screwed up. What makes you say KotOR didn't try - I think K2 just tried too hard. Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread) Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)
Darkchylde777 Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 Kotor wins this one because as fun as Kotor 2 was to play, it just lacks the "shocking revelation" parts.
Darth Blivion Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 Kotor 2 had the better story, the gameplay improvements and a demi-god of a protagonist in The Exile. Enough said.
ncr Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The story would have been better if Kreia's motives were given more depth. Perhaps she lost someone she loved... a daughter, a friend, a lover? In doing research... or out of blind grief, she comes to believe that The Force is to blame for his or her death. That would have made more sense to me. As it is, I understand why she dislikes the idea it has a will of its own ... but to hate it to the degree she wants to destroy it? You're going to have to give her a better motive than that for me to buy it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's simple. If the force has it's own will then it's manipulated her from the start. She had no real choices and all her suffering is down to the force and you cant deny that indeed she has suffered. To understand why look at the last line of the Sith code. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I said she came to believe the force has it's own. The last line of the Sith code can be interpreted many ways.
Jericka Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 KOTOR 1: Love this game, awesome storyline, mediocre to very good combat system, overall an excellent game. KOTOR 2: Really awesome combat system, but the crappiest piece of crap plot. The characters were so uninteresting, and 99% of them were arrogant and ****y (the very few and rare times they actually spoke). The Exile is also dull and, though you're being hunted by every living Sith, the character feels very obselete and unimportant. Not to mention a mute, for some reason.
Shryke Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The Exile is also dull and, though you're being hunted by every living Sith, the character feels very obselete and unimportant. Not to mention a mute, for some reason. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the exile is a mute?! how about revan!! when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse!
Jericka Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The Exile is also dull and, though you're being hunted by every living Sith, the character feels very obselete and unimportant. Not to mention a mute, for some reason. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the exile is a mute?! how about revan!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, because if you switch between characters in KOTOR at least Revan says things like "Yes?" or "What?" and he/she grunts and yells and such during battle, which I believe added a nice affect. KOTOR2.... mute. Exile fights, Exile dies, Exile makes no sound. Exile = mute.
Darth Blivion Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The Exile is also dull and, though you're being hunted by every living Sith, the character feels very obselete and unimportant. Not to mention a mute, for some reason. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the exile is a mute?! how about revan!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, because if you switch between characters in KOTOR at least Revan says things like "Yes?" or "What?" and he/she grunts and yells and such during battle, which I believe added a nice affect. KOTOR2.... mute. Exile fights, Exile dies, Exile makes no sound. Exile = mute. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does being mute have to do with anything?! Malak ( A Run-of-the-mill bad guy) & Revan in his vaunted mask and fall to the dark side was lame and shallow compared to Kreia and The Exile. Hell, Kotor2 made Revan look more interesting than kotor did. If anything it may be assumed that Kreia overestimated him.
Kalfear Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The Exile is also dull and, though you're being hunted by every living Sith, the character feels very obselete and unimportant. Not to mention a mute, for some reason. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the exile is a mute?! how about revan!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, because if you switch between characters in KOTOR at least Revan says things like "Yes?" or "What?" and he/she grunts and yells and such during battle, which I believe added a nice affect. KOTOR2.... mute. Exile fights, Exile dies, Exile makes no sound. Exile = mute. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im sorry but thats the stupidest arguement ive ever heard. Youyr picking one game over the other because the PC says "What" and "Yes"? ROFLMAO! Please tell me you have more reasons then just that! !!!!!! To funny! Kalfear Disco and Dragons Avatar Enlarged
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The exile holds the keys to unmake the force and they are unimportant compared to that Revan is a spec. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
ncr Posted June 7, 2005 Posted June 7, 2005 The question is: Can The Force actually be destroyed or was it a wrong assumption on Kreia's behalf?
dufflover Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 The question is: Can The Force actually be destroyed or was it a wrong assumption on Kreia's behalf? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I say "wrong" simply because I don't like that Matrix-deep stuff, especially when it condemns the character forever. Gotta remember all those conversations with the other party members provide some "evidence" that the whole wound thing, and thus destruction is a wrong theory btw, K2 shouldn't get any votes simply because of better combat, animation and those sorts of things - it's a sequel, it's supposed to implement features and shortcuts fans have suggested. Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread) Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)
A'Gaeris Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 Hell, Kotor2 made Revan look more interesting than kotor did. And that's really the great crime here. The best part of KOTOR I were the sequences that described Revan and his accomplishments. The man saved the galaxy and was worshipped even by the people he destroyed. You really got some sense of awe from him. Then you became him. Except you didn't, really. After that little revelation, you're not the manipulator or strategist Revan is. You're never allowed to display that savage cunning he's rumoured to possess. You're meant to be the great man, but no matter what path you take, it's either Bastilla or Jolee who call the shots. How can you really *be* Lord Revan when you've been treated like a child the entire game, even unto the end? KOTOR II vindicated Revan, made him much more complex than we previously saw. He had a purpose to his fall which went far beyond the black and white villain crap Bioware gave us. Revan went beyond the stereotypes associated with the Light Side and the Dark Side; he controlled them to meet his goals, not the other way around. Like Kreia says, Revan is power, and KOTOR I didn't do enough to show this. Playing KOTOR II and listening to what the NPCs had to say of Revan made you look back and think, "Good God, I was a bad ass," which should have been Bioware's objective. They didn't do very well. On the side, for one who really looks at the dialogue in KOTOR II, you may notice that Obsidian takes quite a few subtle pot shots at the simplicity in the original. From HK's dialogue to the direction of the game itself, it seems like somebody thought Bioware's efforts were quite lacking. I think that's precious.
dufflover Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 Revan is power, and KOTOR I didn't do enough to show this I can't remember if it was this thread or a different one, but you can't compare K1 and K2 because they are built off different principles. K1 was a classic (fine, so it's predictable) Star Wars story about Jedi stopping the Sith (or flipped for DS) built over the theme of redemption. Why the Mandorians attacked was not important to the game, and although it did raise questions on how or when Revan was corrupted before/after the Star Forge, that too was not one of the main points. In my view, K2 (and maybe even K3) might try to make a hero of the DS Revan, trying to prepare the galaxy against the True Sith and stuff - if you want fibs like that go off and play some Tie Fighter and "help the Emperor restore piece and order throughout the galaxy". (at least the Tie Fighter opening credits were a deliberate satire) Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread) Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)
Darth Blivion Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 In my view, K2 (and maybe even K3) might try to make a hero of the DS Revan, trying to prepare the galaxy against the True Sith and stuff - if you want fibs like that go off and play some Tie Fighter and "help the Emperor restore piece and order throughout the galaxy". (at least the Tie Fighter opening credits were a deliberate satire) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> EXACTLY! The idea that Revan reaped the Galaxy apart so as to strengthen the Republic, was total BS INMO.
A'Gaeris Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 EXACTLY! The idea that Revan reaped the Galaxy apart so as to strengthen the Republic, was total BS INMO. Why? What can ensure more immediate and total power than the Dark Side? If Revan saw a threat from the Sith, then maybe he was right to try and to take the plunge and conquer the Republic. If you look at the Republic's history in the last century, it seems to have been woefully unprepared for every crisis that's hit it. It wasn't ready for the Jedi Civil War, nor the Mandalorian invasion, nor Exar Kun 40 years before that. If the Sith Empire is as bad as Kreia seems to suggest, it's not so hard to imagine that Revan sacrificed himself to guarantee the galaxy's survival. Comparing him to Palpatine isn't so great an analogy. Palpatine manipulated events to gain power. Revan fell almost over night, and was careful to preserve the Republic's infrastructure when he did attack. Everything seems to suggest he had no intention of continuing to harness the dark side energy of the Star Forge, which is what eventually led to his overthrow by Malak. Not everything has to be as black and white as is traditionally Star Wars, as even our history shows us that we can't classify major world leaders as strictly heroic or villainous.
dufflover Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 This is Star Wars, where the Sith are supposed to be the bad guys... Pure Pazaak - The Stand-alone Multiplayer Pazaak Game (link to Obsidian board thread) Pure Pazaak website (big thank you to fingolfin)
DaylightX Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 This is Star Wars, where the Sith are supposed to be the bad guys... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> lol, signed.
Darth_Riggers Posted June 8, 2005 Posted June 8, 2005 I'd say that KOTOR II had more interesting themes and ideas running through it, but was very cluttered and clumsy in the execution. KOTOR was simpler, but was more in the classic Star Wars vein, and told in a very 'neat'. It felt like a complete story, whereas KOTOR II frequently feels as it's missing a few chapters.
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