LOSE THE F^_^ING CUT SCENES

[Killzig]

B) Yeah, sitting on a platform five feet away from a battle where all of my possible allies will be killed pisses me off. I've got a lightsabre and I know how to use it. (I just go clicky clicky clicky!) B)

[Shadowstrider]

Er... sure... whatever you say...

 

*Slowly backs out of thread, sporks ready.*

[Judge Hades]

What are you talking about?

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

I agree with the blind man. There shouldn't be cut scenes like that. It's not fun watching your character just stand there when I would like to see him kick ass.

[Judge Hades]

And this pertains to Obsidian how?

[The Situationist]

And this pertains to Obsidian how?

Obsidian are, allegedly, making KotOR 2. I think Killzig's post was a dig at KotOR.

[Judge Hades]

There has been no official news release of this and rumors are to be ignored. I don't see how this pertains to Obsidian.

[Darque]

Cut scenes are a good thing.

 

Especially in an RPG.. that's what KoTOR was, and RPG not a FPS

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

How am I supposed roleplay a character who I have no control over?

[kumquatq3]

:::::SPOILERS:::::::::

 

 

I like cutscenes, for the most part. They help further the story in ways that the player would miss otherwise. Remember the cut scene where you find out you were Revan? The player might have just skipped on past and attacked malak without ever knowing. They serve a purpose.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

How am I supposed roleplay a character who I have no control over?

So much the truth. I always disliked that. Cutscenes should mostly explore situations we have no control over, not show our character automatically say he'll join the good guys without our consent.

[Kevin Lynch]

For the most part, I don't mind cutscenes. However, I do not like ones that show something other than what your character is experiencing (the BG games and NWN had plenty of these, to take examples from games that many of you here have played). I (the player) don't want to see what my nemesis is doing when I (my character in game) has no ability to know that those actions are taking place. In a roleplaying game, it takes you too much outside the story, outside the moment.

 

I do enjoy, though, cutscenes that involve your current character in a manner that doesn't really require new input from the player, yet can further the story and remain interesting. Dream sequences in KotOR and the main character's encounter with the Valsharess (with Meph) in HotU are two examples of scenes in which this method worked.

[Sammael]

I would like to have a word with whoever came up with the cutscene-followed-by-scripted battles thing in IWD2.

 

Worst. Idea. EVAR.

[Aeon]

i like cut scenes. you can't just expand a story with conversations,

 

***SPOILER***

 

for example in KOTOR the battle with malak on the leviathin, or Bastila's intervention were important and had to be done, or at least pre-empted by a cut scene. it wouldn't have worked otherwise.

 

bear in mind the the main aim of an RPG is to progress a story. not to fight

[Kasoroth]

i like cut scenes. you can't just expand a story with conversations,

 

***SPOILER***

 

for example in KOTOR the battle with malak on the leviathin, or Bastila's intervention were important and had to be done, or at least pre-empted by a cut scene. it wouldn't have worked otherwise.

 

bear in mind the the main aim of an RPG is to progress a story. not to fight

I think the battle with Malak on the Leviathan is a great example of what NOT to do in an RPG. First of all, the game cheats so that you can't kill Malak, and then uses cut scenes to force a particular outcome so the player has no control over the situation. Here's what I think they should have done in that situation:

 

1) Make Malak a lot tougher there. He was a complete pushover if not for the cutscene "victory".

 

2) Have Bastila help you fight Malak by the rules, while you are still in control of your character, and shout for you to run while she fights. Maybe even have her close and seal a door if she manages to get herself and Malak into a different room from you. If you want to stick around and try to fight Malak there, and you stick too close for Bastila to lock you out with a door, you should have that option, but it should be a damn near impossible fight that you're not actually expected to be able to win. If you do manage to win, you can kill Malak there, and save yourself the trouble of needing to board the Star Forge later. You just go disable the field that crashes ships, the Republic fleet comes, and Bastila uses her battle meditation to help the fleet destroy the Star Forge.

 

That would have been much better in my opinion, because it allows you to play your character the way you want, to the limit of your abilities. Scripted events that allow NPCs to "cheat" to ensure a particular outcome of a battle should be avoided whenever possible. The game should instead be designed to properly react to any outcome.

 

-Kasoroth

[Enoch]

Normally, I'd agree that combat-interrupting cutscenes with predetermined endings are a rather lame designer cop-out. But, in the context of a Star Wars game, they do make a certain amount of sense.

 

The designers of KotOR modeled the game very deliberately on the original trilogy. Nearly every non-spaceship fight in those movies is interspersed with dialogue, and almost none of them end with a clear victory by the hero (Luke v. Jabba's crowd in RotJ is the only exception that comes to mind). Even the ultimate denouncement of the story, if translated into a CRPG, would essentially be a dialogue choice.

 

The developers were faced with a choice of whether to conform to CRPG traditions and make a clear protagonist victory be the proper conclusion to every fight, or to follow the precedent of the films and force you into some predetermined endings. They chose the latter, and I think the game is better for it. There are probably better ways they could have handled it (Kasoroth's suggestions sound promising), but it works reasonably well as-is.

[Atreides]

2) Have Bastila help you fight Malak by the rules, while you are still in control of your character, and shout for you to run while she fights. Maybe even have her close and seal a door if she manages to get herself and Malak into a different room from you. If you want to stick around and try to fight Malak there, and you stick too close for Bastila to lock you out with a door, you should have that option, but it should be a damn near impossible fight that you're not actually expected to be able to win. If you do manage to win, you can kill Malak there, and save yourself the trouble of needing to board the Star Forge later. You just go disable the field that crashes ships, the Republic fleet comes, and Bastila uses her battle meditation to help the fleet destroy the Star Forge.

 

That would have been much better in my opinion, because it allows you to play your character the way you want, to the limit of your abilities. Scripted events that allow NPCs to "cheat" to ensure a particular outcome of a battle should be avoided whenever possible. The game should instead be designed to properly react to any outcome.

 

-Kasoroth

Some very good points, especially how players get annoyed when enemies don't play by the rules to continue the story. However, I agree about letting Malak die there. If you killed Malak the story from then on would be pretty flat. You've already defeated the ultimate bad guy so there won't be much drive left for the game (who's to spur/guide the forces of evil on?). Of course, there'll be the story of Bastila being turned, your potential for becomming the Dark Lord etc wasted.

 

As for the near-impossible battle, it makes sense. However there'll always be players who may keep trying, reloading etc until they do win, simply because they're hardcore or they think that it's meant to be part of the story (good one getting the player to make story-choices while in combat). It certainly is an interesting one though.

[Amentep]

Can't say I'm wild about cut scenes. I prefer the information to be passed along in game, not by battling my way from point a to b and triggering something.

[kumquatq3]

2) Have Bastila help you fight Malak by the rules, while you are still in control of your character, and shout for you to run while she fights. Maybe even have her close and seal a door if she manages to get herself and Malak into a different room from you. If you want to stick around and try to fight Malak there, and you stick too close for Bastila to lock you out with a door, you should have that option, but it should be a damn near impossible fight that you're not actually expected to be able to win. If you do manage to win, you can kill Malak there, and save yourself the trouble of needing to board the Star Forge later. You just go disable the field that crashes ships, the Republic fleet comes, and Bastila uses her battle meditation to help the fleet destroy the Star Forge.

 

Sounds kinda tedious to me. I think being able to kill Malak would badly hurt tha game. It would ruin the story if you did that. I think the cut scenes during that little bit were well done and moved the story along nicely. A good story matters alot to me. I do think malak being so easy was stupid. They should have skipped right to bastilla attacking him while you ran off. I don't think the actual fight with malak furthered the game much.

[Darque]

I have to agree with Kumquatq3

[HiddenAssassin]

i haven't actually played KotOR but this looks like people don't want an rpg they want a FPS. Cutscenes are part of the story with out a story it would just be a button mash fest. Of course cut scenes have to be done tastefully otherwise it's like watching a movie. Balance is a good thing in the force or in a game

 

way off topic how could darth vader have brought balance to the force when he killed the last evil guy. Doesn't this mean he has made it unbalanced cause luke lives.

[tripleRRR]

I would like to express my views here,

 

I agree with the original poster about the whole "cutscene showing what my enemies are up to idea," outside of a few instances I prefer the uncertainty of not knowing and trying to find out rather than knowing and working to stop them. I find it more realistic and it adds to the experience in my opinion.

 

About being able to kill Malak on the ship, a definite no here, it would have ruined the storyline, which was all in all surprisingly good. But he was way too easy, and I feel the whole doors thing could have been done better, but it wasn't that bad.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Killzig]

so you guys think its ok for this console-ish element of letting the enemy "cheat" his way out of death is ok because it would make the story flat otherwise? here's a wacky idea, how about writing a better story and adding more gameplay options!

[Saint_Proverbius]

I would like to have a word with whoever came up with the cutscene-followed-by-scripted battles thing in IWD2.

When in doubt, blame Maldonado. I know I do.

 

But seriously, cutscenes are pretty lame - especially when they involve the character doing something. I'd much rather retain control over my character as opposed to being forced to sit back and watch something that may or may not fit my ideas and goals.

 

KotOR did this a lot, actually. If you were going for the dark side, and were trying to mug someone, many times it would result in a cutscene where your party members would tell the person to run away leaving you with no money and a dark point. On top of that, there's nothing you can do to scold or maim the party members for their actions. We're talking wussy evil here.

[Iolo]

I would like to have a word with whoever came up with the cutscene-followed-by-scripted battles thing in IWD2.

When in doubt, blame Maldonado. I know I do.

 

But seriously, cutscenes are pretty lame - especially when they involve the character doing something. I'd much rather retain control over my character as opposed to being forced to sit back and watch something that may or may not fit my ideas and goals.

 

KotOR did this a lot, actually. If you were going for the dark side, and were trying to mug someone, many times it would result in a cutscene where your party members would tell the person to run away leaving you with no money and a dark point. On top of that, there's nothing you can do to scold or maim the party members for their actions. We're talking wussy evil here.

One of the main problems with KOTOR is that you couldn't initiate combat at any time you chose and you should be able to do that for more evil options or perhaps just a more chaotic good path than lawful good.