Is this the future of CRPG's?

[Sarkus]

This is from the March issue of PC Gamer and it's article on Elder Scrolls IV:

 

"The genre's (referring to CRPG's) biggest challenge might be the simple fact that graphics technology has reached a point where first-person immersion can't easily be ignored. The worlds made possible by Source-and-beyond engines almost demand a first-person experience. As a result, the "classic" style of third-person, map-oriented, menu driven RPG's may soon be obsolete."

 

I agree with the idea that first-person immersion has it's value in a CRPG and I also understand the commercial attraction of first-person CRPG's being able to attract a cross-over audience of FPS fans. That said, one problem I see is creating the party element in a first-person RPG. Is that even possible?

 

Reactions?

[Volourn]

Full of poo poo.

[Darth Drabek]

A party in a first person RPG might feel too much like one of those squad-based shooters I'm always hearing about. I liked the first-person look option in the KOTOR games.

 

Oh, and I tried playing Morrowind last month because it was a "game of the year" and all. The KOTOR games convinced me I might like some RPG's. Well, it looked beautiful, but I thought the combat system was horrible. I don't plan on picking it up again.

[Simon Appleton]

I agree with the quote about first person graphics now being almost unavoidable - Vampire Bloodlines proved that to me. The immersion from talking to NPCs whose faces could scow, flirt, sneer, joke etc was amazing.

 

But I am not sure it is the end of the party. Having party members you can interact with as you can with the Vampire Bloodlines NPCs you meet in quests would seem to offer enormous role-playing potential. It was not first person, but KOTOR1 maybe came closest to realising this - the interaction with Bastilla got so involving I started fearing my wife walking into the room!

 

It's true you could not micromanage them in combat a squad tactics BG type way. But that concept is rather gamey anyway (noone can really micromanage others in combat). They'd have to fight for themselves unless you "possessed" them, but surely NWN, KOTOR, even DS has shown the AI can control NPCs in combat.

[Ivan the Terrible]

Probably not. RPGers have never given a good goddamn about graphics.

[Aurora]

Eh, no. But this is.

[NeverwinterKnight]

i hate first person view. if all rpgs started implementing it, then id never play a rpg game again.

 

 

......or at the very least bitch and moan about it endlessly.

[Ace]

I do think there is a place for these graphics enhancements to be in isometric RPGs.

 

As in, take Temple of Elemental Evil and make it on the same scale as Planescape: Torment and the 3d characters have the body language seen in games like Bloodlines.

 

So you have detailed, painted worlds, with detailed 3d objects in them that you can interact with, including physics wise. The terrain could be given collision data and so tables, chairs, boxes, etc. can all be knocked over and interact properly.

[Azarkon]

So long as I'm limited to staring at the computer screen, instead of being "fully immersed" through a VR system of some sort, isometric systems/alternative cameras have their place.

 

The simple fact of the matter is, first-person isn't the END ALL BE ALL when you're staring at a 2D representation of a 3D environment. You can make it as real as you want to, but if I'm reduced to movement via keypads and mouses, first-person viewpoints just ain't all that unless you switch to a shoot'em up style ala FPS's. Even with eye-candy, you can never quite capture the beauty of executing a eye-candy, "I know kung fu" attack with a first-person system, whereas it's easily possible with a follow camera or a morphable isometric POV.

 

Immersion comes in many flavors, and while I totally agree that first person POV could offer more immersion in many situations (I'm definitely not in the "isometric 4 eva" crowd), to claim that they're the only choice is hogwash.

[Darque]

I think this all comes in phases.

 

This just happens to be the begining of a first person one for RPGs.. it's not like it's the first time.

 

Bard's Tale.

 

Might and Magic.

 

Etc.

[Oerwinde]

I tend to like 3rd person RPGs more. 1st person combat sucks arse 60-80% of the time, while 3rd person combat only sucks arse 30-50% of the time.

 

I also like being able to see my character.

[Kalfear]

i hate first person view.  if all rpgs started implementing it, then id never play a rpg game again.

 

 

......or at the very least bitch and moan about it endlessly. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gotta say Im with Neverwinter here.

 

I hate first person.

 

If I dont have third person option I simply dont play the game, period.

 

Also, storyline and content will always be the 1st and 2nd most important aspects for RPGs of any nature. Technology wont change that.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's quite likely. What you love or hate dosnt come into it, its what the market dictates.

 

Same thing happened with RTP if you recall.

[Diamond]

Hmmm, I suppose, only when we invent things like direct communication of the system with human brain (yeah, yeah, Martix and such), then 3rd person view games will almost extinct.

 

I guess I will be 70 by that time, and my grandchildren will play it and I will bitch and moan on how-good-the-old-PC-games-used-to-be-not-like-that-crap-today. :D

[Antagonist]

Perhaps it is my lack of imagination, but I fail to see how good squad based RPGs can work in 3D. It's like chess playing in first person mode, it can be done but it makes overview of your tactical options a lot more difficult, even in the future game designers will abondon the concept of player controlled party members. Try playing Guild Wars with a human party in first person and you will quickly realize that FP is only ONE viable option for SPECIFIC games.

[Volourn]

"It's quite likely. What you love or hate dosnt come into it, its what the market dictates."

 

You better inform BIo that all games will be first person and get them to switch DA to 1st person as I think they seem to be ignoring what the market 'dictates'.

 

 

R00fles!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's already in production which dosnt make it the future. Really heres a $ go get a clue.

[Volourn]

Um.. When planning future gamnes; you have to be able to preidct what will be "in" in the future. Obviously, BIo feels that in 2007 non 1st person games will still be "in".

 

You need the reality clue.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Um.. When planning future gamnes; you have to be able to preidct what will be "in" in the future. Obviously, BIo feels that in 2007 non 1st person games will still be "in".

 

You need the reality clue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's too late to do anything about DA now , short of cancel it. If the market has moved at that point it will be reflected in the sales.

[Volourn]

Um. No duh.

[roflolocopter]

Squad based RPGs will only work in 3rd person. Personaly i found BG far more imersive than Vampire anyway. If its a Deus Ex style then first person is by far the best option.

[Laozi]

Um.. When planning future gamnes; you have to be able to preidct what will be "in" in the future. Obviously, BIo feels that in 2007 non 1st person games will still be "in".

 

You need the reality clue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's too late to do anything about DA now , short of cancel it. If the market has moved at that point it will be reflected in the sales.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You two need to go ahead and schedule a slapfight

[Morgoth]

Bioware don't need to run after a trend or "what may be "in" in 2007" nonsense. If Bioware makes a game, people are gonna buy it anyway. And looking at Bio's last creations (NWN, Kotor), I'd say they are the one who care about progress in the CRPG genre, while other companies try to copy their games, or just make sequels to it.

[Phosphor]

I don't think the "future" of game perspectives is going to be a one-or-the-other perspective, but engines capable of giving the player a view ranging from first-person to third-person to pulled-back isometric or direct top-down views depending on the camera location preference of the player.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bioware don't need to run after a trend or "what may be "in" in 2007" nonsense. If Bioware makes a game, people are gonna buy it anyway. And looking at Bio's last creations (NWN, Kotor), I'd say they are the one who care about progress in the CRPG genre, while other companies try to copy their games, or just make sequels to it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats half true. Upto this point Bioware has had some serious liscenced muscle backing them. Jade Empire is going to be the first time that the only thing holding them up is their own name and nothing else.

 

Dragon Age is almost going to be a competitor to NwN depending how things work out.

 

Jades certainly not generating the same buzz as KOTOR or KOTOR II did at the moment (over here at least) and it's only another month in theory till it's released.