KOTOR3? Bioware Please

Funks · February 17, 2005

Nice shot, Obsidian,

A good story, but poorly executed. It had unexplained plots and unfinished buisness. as many of you have already commented, it went downhill from the 'Counsil' Sequence.

Looking back at KOTOR1, we see excelent story in play and kick ass endings. wrapping up everything nicely. All hail Bioware. Come back to us, we miss you.

Does anyone else think Obsidion deserve another go? Or back to Bioware?

Remember Baldur's Gate.

Volourn · February 17, 2005

I'm all for Obsidian getting a crack at KOTOR3. There is some good stuff in KOTOR2. I'd epxect them to improve the game even more. i wouldn't mind BIo making it; but in spite of my (manY) complaints; KOTOR2 is a worthwhile game. :ermm:

TentamusDarkblade · February 17, 2005

Volourn is right on this. Bioware would be good, but i think Obsidian did a good job carrying the torch.

I do find this a frightening trend that i'm agreeing with Volourn so much lately.

Meshugger · February 17, 2005

I'm all for Obsidian getting a crack at KOTOR3. There is some good stuff in KOTOR2. I'd epxect them to improve the game even more. i wouldn't mind BIo making it; but in spite of my (manY) complaints; KOTOR2 is a worthwhile game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

Tanuvein · February 17, 2005

I'm all for Obsidian getting a crack at KOTOR3. There is some good stuff in KOTOR2. I'd epxect them to improve the game even more. i wouldn't mind BIo making it; but in spite of my (manY) complaints; KOTOR2 is a worthwhile game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking back at KotOR I (I'm replaying it again now) I see some painfully bad dialogue with your allies, really crap ideas about good and evil, an uninteresting baddy, a predictable and less features than KotOR II (this one is, of course, excusable). And even more plot holes than KotOR II, which actually manages to answer most things if you are thorough.

Don't get me wrong, KotOR II wasn't full of surprises (it was more about deep story telling than trying to make a big surprise anyway) and KotOR I was still a great game, but Obsidian just handled it so much better.

I find it odd people consider the ending of this worse than the first, where you play through a huge dungeon for about two hours with no story elements, and a much less interesting final confrontation

Stargate: 2000 · February 17, 2005

I'm all for Obsidian getting a crack at KOTOR3. There is some good stuff in KOTOR2. I'd epxect them to improve the game even more. i wouldn't mind BIo making it; but in spite of my (manY) complaints; KOTOR2 is a worthwhile game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

more or less sums up my thoughts on the subject.

Aristademis · February 17, 2005

If KOTOR III is made, I would rather see Bioware make it. Obsididan may have been handed the torch, but they dropped it. Let alone all the bugs in the game, the story alone was nonsensical and incomplete. I knew from the moment that I saw the atrocious-looking menu that that Kotor II would be a bit off. I ignored all the cries about the horrible ending and gameplay, until I played it myself. All I can say is that I would not reccommend this game to anyone. I played Kotor I half a dozen times.Obsidian may shout "replayability" all they want, but I can't seem to replay it. The ending alone turned me off from buying an Obsidian title again.

mightysword · February 17, 2005

The ending of KOTORII is not exactly bad, it's just begging for KOTORIII (and in my dictionary, it's bad). I mean you can always wrap up an espisode to give the players a sastisfy ending while can still leave a few open for sequence, totally left the thing open is....bad.

I prefer KOTORI story, and I don't know where the post before me said, KOTORI has "much" less story flaw then KOTORII, and it has much less bugs!

Still, it's not bad, better then the average RPG on the market, and sure worth my 50$, I will play it the third time when it has a patch

And I'm a big fan of Bioware, but to be honest, I think Bioware done with license material, they now do thing their own way, which is good. It appear Obsediance will soon need to learn how to create stuff on it own.

Aurora · February 17, 2005

I just wish they could *both* make it. Is that so wrong? sigh.

Random Twit · February 17, 2005

Er, kickass endings? In KotOR I? That's pretty subjective. Wrapping things up is good and all, but by no means does that automatically equal "kickass". I felt both the LS and DS endings were kinda... bland. And yes, plenty about KotOR just plain dissapointed me. Oddly enough, even having said such, I still enjoyed the endings, and the game as a whole.

And really, the only reason so many go on about KotOR and what classic it is, is due to the nostalgia factor (and fanboy/girlism. Admit it). Seriously, look at the movies. Episode 1 & 2 weren't spectacular by any means (heck, RotJ left something to be desired, and that's the old trilogy, something considered practically sacred by more rabid fans), yet people will still trip over themselves running to theatres to catch the next flick in the series (no matter how horrible it may be) simply because they remember loving the previous ones.

When I heard about Ep. 1, I remember being hyped at the prospect of actually being in a theatre, watching an honest-to-goodness Star Wars movie. After hearing from others about what the whole thing was like for them, I wanted to experience the same. Sure, I caught them on TV every once and a while, but it just didn't have the same feel. But actually being there for it... It's like getting to see the Lord of the Rings trilogy on the big screen after decades of reading the novels.

Regarding sequals in general: no matter how well fleshed-out the characters are, how magnificent the journey, or moving the ending(s), there will always, always be grumbling about how the first movie/book/game/blah blah blah was so much better, even if it wasn't! Even if countless things were improved upon.. It's kinda like... well, something akin to this:

"Hey guys. Remember that crummy ol', rusted 9mm that was issued to you when you joined <insert organization>? Well, we've decided to gift you with a brand spankin' new Rocket Launcher! Take out hordes of hostiles all at once when before you could only ice one at a time!" "Oh, no no... I like the 9mm better." "But... the rocket launcher... it's all shiny and new, and you don't have to get as close! Tell you what, why don't you keep both, and we'll throw in this machine gun for closer shots. Crowd control AND no chance of blowing yourself up!" "No, I only want the 9mm." "But-" "NO! The first is ALWAYS THE BEST!"

You know, I could have summed up everything I just said with a single quote... Can't remember where I saw it, but here it is:

Question: How many fanboys does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Answer: 10. 1 to screw it in and 9 to argue about how the old one was so much better.

KotOR II may not be perfect, but it is, in my opinon(is this really needed? I mean, obviously it's mine...) meatier than the original. Which means I like it better. Which means I think Obsidian did a commendable job. Which also means I think they did better than Bioware. Which, of course, means I'd love it if III were developed by them. You know, Obsidian. Yeah.

You may conmmence lynching.

Someone's going to jump in with "OMFG, II didn't even HAVE endings!", I just know it... I am fully aware of the lackluster endings... My opinion will not change. Nyah!

Aristademis · February 17, 2005

"I prefer KOTORI story, and I don't know where the post before me said, KOTORI has "much" less story flaw then KOTORII, and it has much less bugs!"

Fisrt of all, you may want to read what I posted.

Second, I'm assuming you're trying to say, "I don't know why the poster before me said Kotor I had a better story and less bugs then KotorII?" If that's the case, then I must refer you to my first point. I never said that. I said that Kotor II's story was nonsensical and incomplete. It is. Show me an ending to the game in Kotor II. I can show you two in Kotor I. Also, Kotor I has a few bugs, but not as many and not as devistating.

That said, I agree with you. I prefer Kotor I's story, but only because it is a complete story. Kotor II could have been just as good or better, but it fell apart and was too disjointed. Cheers!

Msxyz · February 17, 2005

The problem is not Obsidian but Lucas Arts. 12 months for a project of such scope is ridicule. I'm already surprised that they did manage to make a good 30hrs long game. Kudos to Obsidian for the effort.

Chances are that we'll be seeing a new Kotor in a year. If it will be developed by Obsidian or not, I don't know.

But if it will be based again on a forced 12 month development cycle, then I'm not going to buy it unless it's the second coming of Jesus. And no, I'll not listen to the opinion of the many gaming sites those bandwidth is payed by the same people that pass them the games to review.

It's against our interest as players. The only people that benefit from this situation are the publishers, not us neither the developers, much less the whole gaming industry whichis in the hands of greedy corporate leeches.

mightysword · February 17, 2005

the post above is not direct at your post Atirs, but at Tanuvein's.

This game has great potential, When I left Telos academy, I was sure that this is better then KotorI so far, but yes you're right, it appears that the further it goes, the worse the story broken up.

Also there is no suprise in this game I must say, Kreia's betrayal can be seen, or guested, it's not like the Revan reveal in KotorI. Atris is even more obvious. This game may have great plot if it doesn't give away too many hints! :ph34r:

The follower's developement is not balance and some rushed. And the ending is totally off. The Jedi council is a joke, I know it may be the point to show the Council's arrogant, but for god sake it's still the Jedi council, whatever the game is trying to show, it does it the wrong way. "

And I guess no comment is needed for the ending, I wonder why they don't put the line "please wait for KotorIII" at the end of the credit screen. . We know there will be a sequence to Kotor at the ending (both darkside and lightside leave a hint to it) and yet the game still be able to retain as a whole itself, not the case of KotorII

Whitemithrandir · February 17, 2005

If KOTOR II light side ending had that stupid bullcrap ceremonial hero crowning crap, I'd be the first to set torch to the Obsidian HQ.

Yet, if Bioware made the game, that's exactly what we'll get: a crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending.

Aristademis · February 17, 2005

the post above is not direct at your post Atirs, but at Tanuvein's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My apologies, take care.

Darth Sun_Tzu · February 17, 2005

Like i has said in another thread. I would like to see a colaboration between Bioware and Obsidian. Bioware could make the game engine, Obsidian could come up with the story/characters and together they could develop the rest. This would allow the game to be produced quicker, while at the same time be give the attention it deserves.

Tanuvein · February 17, 2005

There's only one thing in KotOR II that is really not explained at least partially at some point. There are no real plot holes, like in KotOR I. There aren't really any flaws in the story of KotOR II, the main gripe is that it doesn't resolve other thiings we'd like to know as well.

mightysword · February 17, 2005

If KOTOR II light side ending had that stupid bullcrap ceremonial hero crowning crap, I'd be the first to set torch to the Obsidian HQ.

Yet, if Bioware made the game, that's exactly what we'll get: a crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We never ask for a ceremony or that soft, and it's not the only way to wrap up a story. So your point is?

And may I ask how many Bioware games you played? Most deffinitely not BG series and NWN series (which is their 2 biggest serries). Because if you did play those 2 series than that "crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending" line won't find its place.

So next time, try to be not sarcastic, and don't be so sure "that's exactly what we'll get" if you don't have proof.

"There are no real plot holes, like in KotOR I."

Care to explain? I played through the game 5 times and I can not see it. If you mean Carth's story about Telos is a plot hole, then I respectfully disagree.

Tanuvein · February 17, 2005

If KOTOR II light side ending had that stupid bullcrap ceremonial hero crowning crap, I'd be the first to set torch to the Obsidian HQ.

Yet, if Bioware made the game, that's exactly what we'll get: a crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We never ask for a ceremony or that soft, and it's not the only way to wrap up a story. So your point is?

And may I ask how many Bioware games you played? Most deffinitely not BG series and NWN series (which is their 2 biggest serries). Because if you did play those 2 series than that "crappy, predictable, happy-go-lucky WOO HOO YOU WIN ending" line won't find its place.

So next time, try to be not sarcastic, and don't be so sure "that's exactly what we'll get" if you don't have proof.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NWN ending was quite crappy regardless, minus the last expansion.

Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal had fantastic endings, though.

mightysword · February 17, 2005

NWN ending was quite crappy regardless, minus the last expansion.

Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal had fantastic endings, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but neither they're a wooohoooo you win ending. The fact is in BG even the ending is fanstactic, it's surely doesn't about "you just win". but more like you just save your self.

"There are no real plot holes, like in KotOR I."

Care to explain? I played through the game 5 times and I can not see it. If you mean Carth's story about Telos is a plot hole, then I respectfully disagree.

Tanuvein · February 17, 2005

Let's see, two ones that quickly caught my attention so far are: Davik wants the rakghoul serum to sell to people for al ot of money. Which is interesting, since rakghouls are only in the undercity, where people with a lot of money NEVER go.

You aren't able to get off of Taris because the ship's autocannons would get you. Except you could just fly on the other side of hte planet and take off, since the Ebon Hawk is faster.

The Jedi Masters believed I am not evil, despite the fact regular people can detect my lies while they can't, on top of which, my face is cracked and grey and my eyes are glowing evily.

~~Those are just two minor ones I've noticed since the beginning. I recall a lot more the last time I played it, but I can't go into detail with any validity until I replay it since its been a while. If you want, I'll post them as they come.

My main gripe really isn't the minor plot holes, since hte main story itself is fairly tight because of its relative simplicity. The main thing is the dialogue is worse than I remember.

mightysword · February 17, 2005

Well, Davik is not a plot hole. It doesn't make sense indeed, but this kind of thing in KOTORII is also abundant, irrelavant.

You only see in the cutsceence a single Sith ship (Malak's ship), but the fact is there is a whole fleet, the admiral told Malak that he will need several "hours" to posistion the "fleet". So I bet Taris is surrounded by what should be hundred Sith warships, without the code that mean one can not take of on any side of the planet.

The jedi admit that they're in desperate, and that make sense. Remember the original purpose is to use Revan and find the source of the Sith fleet production. Revan is never meant to defeat Malak. Maybe the Council still tolerate Revan because they only need him to fight the starforce, and that's an action out of desperate.

Osiris · February 17, 2005

some people actually like KOTOR2 over KOTOR1. I can't say I'm one of them.

But I think Obsidian did many things better than Bioware (but it's expected to have new features in a sequal). Breaking down and creating items is pretty cool. Getting XP for using security instead of bashing. Have bashing damage the items inside. Getting XP for recovering mines.

In theory I like the influence system. But it's so difficult sometimes.

The story is better than KOTOR1 had they finished it.

I'm still undecided which game I like better. I admit I'm a little disappointed in this game. But I really have no desire to play KOTOR1 over this game. But we'll see, I've only had it for a week. We'll see how it stands the test of time.

NeverwinterKnight · February 17, 2005

Nice shot, Obsidian,

A good story, but poorly executed. It had unexplained plots and unfinished buisness. as many of you have already commented, it went downhill from the 'Counsil' Sequence.

Looking back at KOTOR1, we see excelent story in play and kick ass endings. wrapping up everything nicely. All hail Bioware. Come back to us, we miss you.

Does anyone else think Obsidion deserve another go? Or back to Bioware?

Remember Baldur's Gate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

is it me, or are there a lot of bioware fanboys coming out from the shadows lately?

every new forumer (less than 50 posts) that seems to bash the game always brings up bioware as being able to "rectify" the series.

i hate these bioware vs. obsidian threads because you dont know for sure whether bioware would have done a better job given the same development time, nor do we know for sure if obsidian would have done a better job if they were given more development time. its all speculation.

Brannart · February 17, 2005

Bioware is not going to do it as they have moved on to their own IPs. So KOTOR III is going to be made by Obsidian or somebody else but not Bioware. Sorry.

KOTOR3? Bioware Please

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