Random Twit

Gah. That must be a bug, then, because it certainly seems like it you should only get it after he joins. For the longest time I was wondering why D.Simpson even had the option in his FAQ if the opposite were true: Sooo, you can get it before he joins, but not after... bleah. Guess I glossed over the option. Regardless, thanks for the info.

Wah? You can't turn him into a Jedi without enough influence (or loss. Yes, you can make someone a Jedi if you lose enough, they just won't share your alignment)... Unless you mean the "What's your problem with the Jedi?" one? I've never been able to get that bloody thing to trigger. Ever. ><

Revan is supposed be bright--you'd have to be pretty dim to not just let them all go at eachother and do the work for you. She'd take the opportunity, I think, and more so if she were leaning towards the DS. If she were more light, well... that tends to create a considerable loss in mental agility, doesn't it? Those good guys usually do dumb things... then again, this is Revan, so maybe she'd break the trend. Anyway: That doofus Nihilus would be the first one down due to sheer stupidity; Sion's will would be broken because he'd realize his life was one big waste of space (I like him actually, but really...) and he'd commit suicide; Palpatine would die at Vaders hands (how could it never occur to him that perhaps, just maybe, despite falling so far, that maternal instinct might kick in and Vader would send him plummeting to his doom?); Vader, as we all know, would die. Or not. 'Cause, you know, Luke wouldn't be present. I don't see a problem though; Vader may be the "big daddy", but all things considered, he's just not on the same level as Revan--power over the Force or otherwise. Finally... I don't think the Exile can even control his power; he's a cypher, yes, so it tends to just "happen", but Revan's will is virtually unshakeable from what we know (the wound tends to exert itself over the weaker willed, eh? Revan was never even comsumed by the dark side, she merely used it to achieve her goals), and she simply wouldn't allow such a thing to take place--she's too sly for that. And hell, if Revan could be beaten, I don't think she'd run off to go fight some ancient evil; it'd be over before it began. It's already kinda been infered though that if Revan can't do it, noone can. Thus Revan=Ze Winnar. But this is a silly discussion because the only official characters are Palp, Ty, Maul and Vader, so the others would magically poof out of existence due to the magic of canon. Vader would kill the ones remaining. Though, since they're all imaginary anyway....*rambles*

Riiiight here. Yet another excellent guide by D. Simpson, as always. EDIT: Once again I'm too slow.

Oh, TSL definately handled romance better, but my only problem is there wasn't enough, and that's why I was a bit dissapointed. I should have typed that up properly, my fault. Anyway, the first game had too little, and I was hoping for more the second time around. What can I say? I really am a dialouge wh*re--I love the stuff, and I was practically giddly with glee to see that there was so much more of it in TSL, romance and otherwise. And about what I meant with the physical thing: that's basically what the main romance track was full of, from what I saw. Not entirely, but mostly(well, you know, talking about attraction in the physical sense), which is why I enjoyed the bit with facing Bastila at the star forge far more. No mention of attraction or such, just love for one another. I don't really mind bits of attraction thrown into a story if it's amusing. Sounds odd, I know. I'm kinda of picky. I feel there was something emotional between Bastila and Revan, too (male and female), but not in a romantic sense. It goes much, much deeper than simply describing it as a force bond or whatever. I'll stop now though because I lost my train of though and no longer know what I'm talking about. D'oh. [EDITED]

Bleah. Playing the Bastila/Revan romance through to the end kinda left a bad taste in my mouth. Wooo, smooch smooch=romance! No, I'm sorry, I just prefer emotional rather than physical relationships(usually. the other stuff has it's place...). I would have prefered a heart felt talk between the two rather than a "Passion, blah blah blah, let's kiss!" thing. For the most part, all the dialogues between you and Bastila focused more on the physical aspect far too much. I actually felt the confrontation at the starforge involving a male Revan and Bastila was better than the actual "romance" portion. As for Carth+Revan... there could have been more to that as well. TSL was also a bit of a dissapointment in this regard, especially for a female Exile (I haven't finished my male game yet, so I'm going by what I've heard, here). At least males have the bit with Visas and you "seeing" eachother through the force, which is pretty meaningful right there. Also, don't Handmaiden and Visas interact more? Back to females: Disciple was more for the emotional aspect and I can appreciate that, but there was so very little of it, not enough interaction really. And Atton... he seemed confused, caught between physical and emotional (further strengthened by one of many things that were cut; Atton's death scene. If that's not proof that he loves the Exile, I don't know what is.), but that isn't really played out either. I'm glad for the few scenes between Atton and Disciple, though--those were amusing. I still haven't seen Atton busting Disciple for sending transmissions to the republic, however... yargh. Of course, I may be horribly confused regarding KotOR, and should play through it again to jog my memory. Eh.

*Scratches head* Yeah, you know, waaaay back when, females weren't regarded as people. Such a thing would have been unheard of, and the female trying to take on such a role likely would have been killed or some such. It has nothing to do with mental ability. Your argument is null and void. Nyah! Being self-centered? That's baaaaad. But I get what you're saying. You mean emotionally stable, right? If so, not every woman is an emotional train wreak. They can be just as stable, if not more so, because women tend to be more intouch with thier emotions than men, and can come to terms with them better. That's usually the case, but men are just as capaple of such understanding, as well as the whole weeping deal. That said, it still all comes down to the individual. Gender has nothing to do with it, really. EDIT: Damn you Aegis! You beat me to it. And, um, Tanuvein.

Touch

.... Typical male egotism. I love it. I fail to see how a woman can't be a charismatic, authoritative figure and a more than effective military strategist. "Oh, well... cause, y'know, being female and all..." isn't a good enough argument.

That's... bizarre, I've never had that problem. Everytime I've turned a character into a Jedi they gained XP just fine, though I have had a few characters behind in levels once or twice, but it never had anything to do with Jedifying them. Players encountering bugs vs. players not encountering bugs seems pretty split down the middle--many play through the game encountering numerous game enders, yet countless others don't. Eh, just lucky, I guess. The worst I've had is two Attons and two Kreias on the same screen, that sort of thing. Stuff you'd laugh at but wouldn't really stress over. I can't help with the Handmaiden problems, unfourtunately... haven't played as a male Exile yet. But, I CAN tell you about the HK thing: the love dialouge actually appears after you view the hologram of Bastila/Carth that T3 has. It isn't a cutscene (neither is the HK bit, obviously) so the Handmaiden bit shouldn't be an issue. EDIT: Oh, wow, that post was made in January... Horace probably gave up.

Saint: Just use the spoiler tags. Like this {spoiler}{/spoiler}, only use [] instead. And I've got a better question: what's so bloody great about Bastila?! Seriously. Is it the "babe" factor? She's important to the whole Revan thing (the bond and all), but honestly... Anyway, it doesn't make much sense for such a famous padawan to be running around shouting "Lookie lookie, I'm a JEDI!" in a galaxy where Jedi are currently being hunted down, eh? Secrecy and subterfuge are what it's all about, now. At least, until Revan gets things rolling.

Er, kickass endings? In KotOR I? That's pretty subjective. Wrapping things up is good and all, but by no means does that automatically equal "kickass". I felt both the LS and DS endings were kinda... bland. And yes, plenty about KotOR just plain dissapointed me. Oddly enough, even having said such, I still enjoyed the endings, and the game as a whole. And really, the only reason so many go on about KotOR and what classic it is, is due to the nostalgia factor (and fanboy/girlism. Admit it). Seriously, look at the movies. Episode 1 & 2 weren't spectacular by any means (heck, RotJ left something to be desired, and that's the old trilogy, something considered practically sacred by more rabid fans), yet people will still trip over themselves running to theatres to catch the next flick in the series (no matter how horrible it may be) simply because they remember loving the previous ones. When I heard about Ep. 1, I remember being hyped at the prospect of actually being in a theatre, watching an honest-to-goodness Star Wars movie. After hearing from others about what the whole thing was like for them, I wanted to experience the same. Sure, I caught them on TV every once and a while, but it just didn't have the same feel. But actually being there for it... It's like getting to see the Lord of the Rings trilogy on the big screen after decades of reading the novels. Regarding sequals in general: no matter how well fleshed-out the characters are, how magnificent the journey, or moving the ending(s), there will always, always be grumbling about how the first movie/book/game/blah blah blah was so much better, even if it wasn't! Even if countless things were improved upon.. It's kinda like... well, something akin to this: "Hey guys. Remember that crummy ol', rusted 9mm that was issued to you when you joined <insert organization>? Well, we've decided to gift you with a brand spankin' new Rocket Launcher! Take out hordes of hostiles all at once when before you could only ice one at a time!" "Oh, no no... I like the 9mm better." "But... the rocket launcher... it's all shiny and new, and you don't have to get as close! Tell you what, why don't you keep both, and we'll throw in this machine gun for closer shots. Crowd control AND no chance of blowing yourself up!" "No, I only want the 9mm." "But-" "NO! The first is ALWAYS THE BEST!" You know, I could have summed up everything I just said with a single quote... Can't remember where I saw it, but here it is: Question: How many fanboys does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Answer: 10. 1 to screw it in and 9 to argue about how the old one was so much better. KotOR II may not be perfect, but it is, in my opinon(is this really needed? I mean, obviously it's mine...) meatier than the original. Which means I like it better. Which means I think Obsidian did a commendable job. Which also means I think they did better than Bioware. Which, of course, means I'd love it if III were developed by them. You know, Obsidian. Yeah. You may conmmence lynching. Someone's going to jump in with "OMFG, II didn't even HAVE endings!", I just know it... I am fully aware of the lackluster endings... My opinion will not change. Nyah!

Don't worry about it. You'll get oddles of other robes eventually, just keep looting every corpse/crate you see. Now that I think about it, though, the Baran De Novice robes look pretty close to what Obi wears. They aren't particularly good, though, so wait for the Ossus Keeper robes: Better stats, similar look.

... It's not a matter of negative influence, Osiris, you just need more. If you had more than a couple skeletons in your closet, would you launch into an hours-long spiel about your super sekkrit uber dark past to a virtual stranger? No, you'd wait until you developed a, perhaps mutual, level of respect and/or understanding for him/her/it before you devulge your life story to him/her/it. That's bascially what the influence system is; it doesn't perfectly emulate what you get in life, but it works, for the most part. You just didn't try hard enough to make it work, that's all. Jedi Reaven: You really should have asked elsewhere, but regardless... I can't recall the name of a robe that matches your description off hand, and it really wouldn't help much, anyway, seeing as how loot is randomly generated in this game. Sorry.

...Cripes. After reading through what was cut I'm horribly tempted to run out and buy the bloody PC version(I'm weak, you see. I had to get the Xbox version first), if only to listen to the sound samples/read through the dialog.tlk file myself. The scenes between Atton/Exile and Disciple/Atton... wow. Hell, all the bits Aurora mentioned could have made for an incredible finale. I'm torn, though, I really am. I don't know about the majority of people here, but I tend to get pretty attached to characters and seeing them killed off in such a way would have me cursing the writers for doing so to begin with, yet praise them for creating something that ends on a powerful note. Bleargh. Actually, Plooby... Iseo is correct. The only way to kill Bastila/die with Carth at the Starforge as a DS female is to download the mod that restores those dialogs. The "official" DS female romance ending forces you (or you tell Bastila to) kill Carth. I loaded up a save I made before fighting Malak and checked, with and without the mod, just to make sure to avoid having to put my foot in my mouth later. I'm nitpicky, I know. Chuck a couple bricks my way if you like, I won't take offense. :D

You're very, very welcome. I really do hope it helps. If it doesn't, then, wow, what a waste of space that post of mine was! Also, geez, I can't believe I didn't mention this before: It's probably another no-brainer, but a sure way of gaining with Disciple is to support/protect the republic in everything--he's a true patriot and it shows in his dialog(even the DS Jedi training bit!). And about Onderon: trying giving a star visa to the republic... guy. The one in the cantina. Yeah... I can't really remember anymore about that, heh. I think I recall it working for Bao Dur as well, though... Now, for the evil "What's you're problem with the Jedi?" dialog: I have a sneaking suspicion that you may need to have gone through other influence dialog checks to unlock it... maybe. I say this because the branch of dialog I found can involve convincing him that his worst fears are true, and the Jedi have indeed abandoned the Republic. You only have one chance to get this dialog;if you don't get it the first time, that's it.<---DS points and a loss of influence in the following dialog for it, BTW. Regardless, I stumbled upon the above after picking something I had completely glossed over during my previous LS/DS runs. As I recall(which I probably don't, really, but I sure as heck will try), to get to that point you need to ask if you've met before/tell him he looks familiar(or is it the one where you ask about his training on Dantooine? The one you get AFTER mentioning he looks familiar?><). After a bit of talking you can say "I have found one of the lost Jedi"(Vrook, Kavar, or the master with the "Z" in his name. If you actually have, of course). Even further still, if you tell him the Jedi abandoned the republic, it will lead to more dialog and an influence check. If you fail, he says he doesn't believe you, etc.. If you succeed he says... some stuff. Once again, I don't remember. Sorry. Just thought I'd mention all of this in case you were curious. I have yet to actually gain more influence back after doing this to try and get the "problem with the jedi" bit to work, so... Eh.

Unless you're trying to influence "Evil" characters, there's really no way to gain influence without accepting a couple LS points. ...Actually, there is a point on Nar Shaddar. Remember the thugs you can force persuade to hop into the pit? Tell them to do just that and you'll gain DS points AND influence, even with LS characters, since you're still helping the guy being bullied, albiet through evil means. Then there's the whole Kreia thing. If you don't mind losing (though you can gain some back in the same convo) influence with her, bring her along with whichever LS character you're trying to influence. Kill an innocent ("innocent" being entirely subjective in some parts of the game) and they'll be all "Ack, what was I doing", etc., but it will be as if Kreia mind tricked them and they'll gain. She'll yell at you of course and you lose with her, but hey, you can't have everything, right?

Heck with editing. Silly disclaimer: My memory is notoriously bad, so lets see how much I actually remember here (and get correct)... Also, please excuse how disorganized (and grammatically wrong) this post may be. I've played through the game twice so far, LS then DS, both times as a female Exile, picked up Disciple immediately after Telos in both games, and Jedified him on both paths(the DS Jedi training dialog is far more interesting). I'm currently on a third game, am considerably dark and I haven't even met Atris yet, so we'll see about the influence loss you seem to get when meeting Disciple. I can't be sure if you lose any there when DS, as I was neutral at that point, and didn't put him in my active party (or speak to him) until after getting Mira on my second planet, Nar Shadda. As for the rest of your post: you're pretty much dead-on about losing influence with Disciple if you're DS, Scott. In some situations you lose no matter what you say to him. A tip is to just hold off going DS (remaining mostly neutral/slightly DS) until you've completed most of Disciple's dialog tree, do some evil junk, THEN train him to avoid losing too much influence. If you do this, then even with the below, you should still be able to train him. If not, a single good deed should be enough to make him budge. But yeah, here's an example of influence loss: The typical "OMG, what happened to your face/you're falling to the darkside, blah blah blah" dialog you get with all the characters as you move closer to the darkside isn't so typical with Disciple. He has deified the Exile and views her as a heroine; to see her in a state that contradicts everything he believes to be true crushes his perceptions of her and makes him doubt, thus a loss of influence. You can even gain DS points at the same time despite not threatening/insulting him! Regardless, in both runs through the game, I still managed to Jedifie him, and he was even further down the alignment bar than I was, nearly maxed out. Creepy. Anyway, here are some possible and sure places to gain influence or avoid losing any, though naturally, you'll need to bite the bullet and accept LS points for the former. If you already know of these, then I'm sorry I proved so useless. BTW, I've noticed that if you're shooting for dialog from a particular character, it's best to have him/her/it in the second party slot, next to the Exile, or just have him/her/it the only person with you. This is to make sure another character's dialog doesn't overlap, as some seem to take priority over the others. Sometimes BOTH characters respond, but... not always. Oh, right... before I go any further, he's a quote from another topic: I'm inclined to believe such is the case for you, as I've also missed getting the "what's your problem with the jedi" dialog in BOTH playthroughs... (I couldn't gain more influence, couldn't get that dialog, but was able to make him a Jedi. Ergh.) and it infuriates me. I love dialog, and thus have to read/hear everything in a game or a part of my brain implodes. So... just try to remember to exit before asking him anything else. ...Of course, there's always the possibility that to get it, you have to lose (why would the option be there, though?) enough influence with him... if so, GAH! It would make sense, though... I suppose. He does say he doesn't wish to trouble you with his problems, so maybe he'd give in if he thought less of you. Then again, it could very well be a bug. The alloted influence you're allowed to gain with Disciple seems to be a lot less than, say, Atton. Atleast, that's what I've noticed. Heck, it could even be due to the "rival" thing with Atton and Disciple--if you gain too much with either or, you can't gain enough to get all the dialog paths with the other, maybe? By the time I hit Dantooine both times, I had a good bit of influence with Atton. I'm going to try doing the opposite and see what happens. But... since it already seems to be "maxed", you could be screwed, to tell you the truth(unless, as of this posting, you haven't saved the Mandalorian on the cliff on Dxun yet--see further below). Sometimes in a run through the game the alignment/influence system gets all wonky, resulting in an inability to properly gain influence(Had this problem with Visas). If you're really set on getting all his dialog, you'll just have to play through the game again, something other players seem disinclined to do, as they don't think much of Disciple. Pity. All right, I've blabbered on enough. The following is a general Disciple influence gain guide (though you did ask for Dxun/Onderon, and they're near the bottom if you wish to look. As I said, it's probably too late, unfortunately. This may be useful though if you do play through as a female again.) Being how craptacular my memory is, this will be incomplete, but I'll do my best to remember the more important dialogs. NOTE: Do not exit a dialog unless instructed to, and don't move on to another topic unless told to do so, if you feel like taking a chance then later kicking yourself for it. As much as I do enjoy the game, it's terribly buggy, and something may be missed if you just plow through it all. TIP: I lied. I have one more thing to say before getting to the "guide", and it's a general tip for all characters. A very useful one, too: Don't kill innocents! ... Unless you have Kreia in your party, that is. If you don't mind losing (or gaining at the same time, thereby nullifying the loss pretty much) influence with her, after the familiar "didn't realise what I was doing", etc. from the other character in your party, Kreia will berate you and you respond in whatever way you wish, but it will be as if Kreia preformed a mind trick on the other character and they'll GAIN, even if it contradicts their personality. Okay, it begins after this line. For real. ------------------------------------------------------------- 1. During the initial meeting with Disciple in the enclave, don't bother discussing anything and just exit the dialog and he'll offer to join. (If you do, you may lose your chance at gaining influence as you've already activated certain dialogs and can't get them again because they disappear. The game doesn't register this because he has yet to actually JOIN the party. I've had this happen with Mandalore since he doesn't actually "join" until after you flee Onderon) Say he looks capable, blah blah, and you'll gain influence. (a no-brainer, I know, but I feel the need to add this in for complete...ness) For kicks, bring Atton along and he'll complain. If he's the the first character to respond he'll go on about how the party's already full, and if he's the second, it's something along the lines of "Oh great, he's coming with us. Let's throw a party"... If memory serves correctly. 2. First ask him what it is he does, and he'll mention he's a historian/scientist with some medical knowledge. Go back to the original dialog tree and say "you mentioned you had medical knowledge" or such. Exit the dialog completely and talk to him again. This time, tell him you're in need of healing, even if you aren't. Afterwards ask him if that healed everything and he'll respond with something that is supposed to be flattering (I actually LIKE Disciple. Hah, take THAT, naysayers!). Finally, Tell him his words are appreciated to gain LS points and influence, I think. If you've "maxed" his influence, this won't work. The gain, that is. As always, before asking him anything else, exit the dialog just incase. And no, this can't be done over and over to gain influence. The option to thank him disappears after the first time. NOTE: Do NOT continue this dialog if you're DS (Which you are. Sorry). If you do, after asking if that healed everything he'll say it did, physically, but there's still the spiritual problem you're having. Everything you say here will result in a loss of influence (and DS points for sure if you respond, can't remember if you get any if you just exit), even if you don't pick any of the responces and just exit the dialog. Remember, you can still have him heal you, just be sure not to ask if he really healed everything. Oh, bloody hell. I can't remember any more of the dialog you have to initiate with Disciple. Ergh. I need to get to Disciple again and play around with his dialog tree. Anyway... 3. Don't kill the guy with the "J" in his name. Uh, the one that locked himself in one of the rooms in the enclave... you know, the guy who conned that other guy out of his vaporator? Yeah, him. It's the usual "Ack, killing bad! BAD Disciple!" dialog you get whenever spilling innocent blood. If you want to get around this, just bring Kreia along like I mentioned above. 4. Now THIS is a funny one. Remember those thugs on Nar Shaddar, the ones hassling the man near the pit? Protecting the guy is an obvious gain, but if you force persuade them to jump into the pit, you'll net yourself DS points, but still gain influence with Disciple! It's win-win! Sure, they may have deserved it, but you'd think Disciple would be a little disappointed with the way it was handled, considering the way he is. He's not like Bao Dur, who accepts whatever actions you take in such a situation as long as you're helping an innocent. I actually did this as a LSer and got a kick out of it. It just seemed so... odd. Disciple's attitude does change somewhat though if you tell him you'll only train him if he embraces the darkside... unfortunately, however, this isn't played out in further dialog later on. 5. Dxun... oh boy... uh... Okay, I'm pretty sure this is the ONLY spot you can really gain influence with compassionate (or the other sort, really, by doing the opposite. Then again, my memory stinks, so...) characters on Dxun. By helping the stranded Mandalorian on the cliff you can gain influence. Either tell Disciple that "no one deserves that" or "even a Mandalorian deserves better" or whatever the responses are. You may be playing DS, but like it or not, you'll have to eat a LS point or two. 6. Onderon... hm, try giving a star visa to the mother and her children. That will definitely get you LS points, and perhaps influence. Again, I can't remember for sure. Sorry. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following has nothing to do with gaining/losing influence, but I thought it was interesting, as small as the change is. In my DS run through the game, unlike any of the other characters, Disciple's reaction to the "I want to ask you some questions" thing changes depending on alignment. I'm not sure if it's the Exile's or his that matters, but I'm leaning towards the Exiles'. When I played as a DSer, I remained neutral/light, since I wanted to get Mira right after getting Disciple and finishing Dantooine, as I mentioned above. I only spoke to him ONCE the entire time, having clicked on him accidentally and immediately quitting the dialog as I wanted to try getting everything from him as a DSer. I left all the optional quests on Nar Shadda alone, in hopes of raking in DS points after the whole thing with that pain in the arse, G0-T0. I don't know about the rest of you, but I managed to tick off the exchange very early on in both games, and never had a problem with the Red Eclipse (?) twits showing up. Well, anyway, when you're more into the light, Disciple says his "That is hardly surprising. What do you wish to know?" line conversationaly, and that's it. When you're more neutral, he says, "Of course. What is it you'd like to know?"(close enough, anyway) almost anxiously, I thought. After you fall further, he's far more subdued, and his voice is softer, as if he's saddened and disappointed by what's happened to you. He says "Very well. What did you wish to know?", hesitating on the 'What'. ...Blargh. Not being able to remember everything gives me the sudden urge to run off and play a bit. I hope what I DID manage to remember is helpful.

You needn't worry about that because there is no such alignment condition--I was a vile bastard and still made him see my side of things. I'll gladly type out a bit of a guide for you, (it would be quite... long. I try to be thorough) but not just this moment, as I have to be somewhere. I will edit this post later, though.