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Cut Ending Stuff

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Perhaps,but I'm still angry at L.A for rushing what could've been a great RPG.

 

Time might not have been the reason. I think some of that stuff would have pushed the game into M territory and also it's not very star wars like either.

 

It's too dark and downbeat...

 

If Obsidian was told by LA to pull those parts late on then that would explain why the game was as it was. To re record another ending would have required rehiring the VO talent.

 

If Obsidian hadnt discussed the ending with LA before going ahead then they are somewhat to blame.

 

Of course this is purely conjecture.

 

That is EXACTLY what I had said earlier in this thread. I even said the bit about not just plain knowing what really went down.

 

But I have a very strong suspicion that LA probably wasn't comfortable with this content in the game because it just wasn't Star Wars-like. Some of that stuff would've definitely pushed the game into M territory.

 

Time may have been an absolute factor, but I really think because this was a Star Wars game, LA had the final say what does and does not go into the game. And I really do believe they just felt this material, though utterly great, was not Star Wars.

 

That's probably why the BioWare scenes in K1 that involved Carth dying with Revan and such were cut out. And BioWare had three years to develop their game.

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Perhaps,but I'm still angry at L.A for rushing what could've been a great RPG.

 

Time might not have been the reason. I think some of that stuff would have pushed the game into M territory and also it's not very star wars like either.

 

It's too dark and downbeat...

 

If Obsidian was told by LA to pull those parts late on then that would explain why the game was as it was. To re record another ending would have required rehiring the VO talent.

 

If Obsidian hadnt discussed the ending with LA before going ahead then they are somewhat to blame.

 

Of course this is purely conjecture.

 

That is EXACTLY what I had said earlier in this thread. I even said the bit about not just plain knowing what really went down.

 

But I have a very strong suspicion that LA probably wasn't comfortable with this content in the game because it just wasn't Star Wars-like. Some of that stuff would've definitely pushed the game into M territory.

 

Time may have been an absolute factor, but I really think because this was a Star Wars game, LA had the final say what does and does not go into the game. And I really do believe they just felt this material, though utterly great, was not Star Wars.

 

That's probably why the BioWare scenes in K1 that involved Carth dying with Revan and such were cut out. And BioWare had three years to develop their game.

 

But you can still kill Jolee, Juhani and corrupting Zalbaar to kill Mission, what difference is that from K2's "missing ending"?


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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That's probably why the BioWare scenes in K1 that involved Carth dying with Revan and such were cut out.  And BioWare had three years to develop their game.

 

But then the story of TSL wouldn't work out. Wasn't TSL in pre-production while KOTOR 1 was being made?

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But I have a very strong suspicion that LA probably wasn't comfortable with this content in the game because it just wasn't Star Wars-like.  Some of that stuff would've definitely pushed the game into M territory.

 

Time may have been an absolute factor, but I really think because this was a Star Wars game, LA had the final say what does and does not go into the game.  And I really do believe they just felt this material, though utterly great, was not Star Wars.

 

That's probably why the BioWare scenes in K1 that involved Carth dying with Revan and such were cut out.  And BioWare had three years to develop their game.

 

There's a TON of "definitely M" content in the both games that was left in just fine. Torture, pimping, slavery, and mass murder versus... some more torture, some more killing? It's probably more *depressing* than most of the stuff in-game because you're watching your party members suffer, but it's not more mature.

 

Bioware did run out of time for the Carth-DSFRevan-ending - there would've been additional end movies to be made, I believe.


I am following my fish.

 

A temporary home for stranded ML'ers

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I'm glad all of you have taken the time to show what all was cut. The ending of KOTOR2 is VERY disappointing (even though I found the actual gameplay of the Ravager / Malachore 5 to be fine. I don't see why everyone is so upset about the fact that the academy "just throws tons of bad guys at you". So did the Star Forge in KOTOR1?), and made absolutely no sense.

 

1) Why still show Mira vs Hanharr? If you're cutting out ALL the stuff, then cut that out as well, and let me think everyone is just somehow stuck on the Ebon Hawk or something. The only reason I could think of for leaving it in there is to explain what Kreia did to Hanharr on Nar Shaddaa, but since there are tons of other things they never explain, leaving the Mira part in just seems senseless. (especially since it's just the same thing as the arena fight in Nar Shaddaa.)

 

2) The remote running around activating the shadow generator seems a bit useless as well, although it does sort of explain what happened to Malachore V to begin with. You can kinda put the pieces together through dialogue, but it's nice to see Bao-Dur explaining what happened to begin with. However, having that remote run around two levels where there are no more monsters is just completely lame and senseless.

 

3) It never gets explained what happens to your bond with Kreia. I've read the part where it states that one member falling to the dark side breaks the bond, but I find that a lacking explanation. Obviously because it's not IN the actual game to begin with, but even more so because Kreia doesn't FALL to the dark side anywhere, she IS firmly entrenches in the dark side throughout the game, just check all her dialogue. From the moment she begins talking to Atton she's abusing him and taunting him, and it doesn't take long for her to start blackmailing him. Everything I know about Star Wars and the Force makes it very clear that that = Dark Side.

So if the bond is there with Kreia already being in the Dark Side, why does it vanish?

 

4) For that matter, what's Kreia's whole point for doing everything to begin with? Her explanation that she hates the manipulations of the Force, and that the Exile is beautiful to her because he is a wound / void in the Force was quite clever, but it fails to address certain issues :

 

A) From all I can puzzle together, Nihilus is the exact same thing, a Wound in the Force. Why does she let Nihilus be killed when realistically he is a far greater threat to the Force than the Exile? (because Nihilus could have conceivably killed everyone and everything, thereby extinguishing the Force itself) Merely because the Exile once gave up his Force connection, and Nihilus would never do so? What difference does that make to her?

B) If she hates the Force so much, why does she go back to using it, after it's been stripped away from her?

C) How does her dying at the hands of the Exile at the end rhyme with her stated desire of seeing the Force die? While I understand that it's the Sith way that an apprentice must defeat their Master, Kreia clearly stipulates MANY times throughout the game that she is not a Sith, or at least that that is not what she believes.

I fail to see how her death at the hands of the Exile advances her goal in any way, and is of benefit to herself in any way.

 

5) If Revan has gone beyond the Outer Rim, and only certain individuals, the ones who understand war like Revan and the Exile do, can follow Revan, why is it alluded that T3-M4 knows where Revan is?

 

All in all, it's very disappointing.

 

The thing that bugs me most, however, is the fact that an Obsidian designer is on the NWN2 board talking about KOTOR2, but they are quiet on their OWN KOTOR2 board, when there is a huge clamor for information and a patch.

 

It's sad that such a good RPG gets LA's fist rammed up its... Well, you know what.

 

Creston

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2) The remote running around activating the shadow generator seems a bit useless as well, although it does sort of explain what happened to Malachore V to begin with. You can kinda put the pieces together through dialogue, but it's nice to see Bao-Dur explaining what happened to begin with. However, having that remote run around two levels where there are no more monsters is just completely lame and senseless.

 

C) How does her dying at the hands of the Exile at the end rhyme with her stated desire of seeing the Force die? While I understand that it's the Sith way that an apprentice must defeat their Master, Kreia clearly stipulates MANY times throughout the game that she is not a Sith, or at least that that is not what she believes.

I fail to see how her death at the hands of the Exile advances her goal in any way, and is of benefit to herself in any way.

 

 

In theory your supposed to be able to destroy the planet the remote is there to make it possible. Although it may be one of the cut endings as well I'm not sure what the criteria for planet killing is. In the dialogue you can threaten to blow up the planet but it dosnt seem to "stick" when the fight is triggered. I always imagined that Bao Dur would have noticed GOTO's tinkering and programmed in a counter. You can almost see the remote grinning smuggly as M5 goes kaboom..

 

Kreia wanted to win because her teachings were right. The exile proved her teachings were wrong by following her to MV she believed the exile had turned away because he was afraid to face M5 but he came back to stop her so she failed even though she trained "an apprentice" strong enough to kill her she failed to make him see things her way through her teachings even if she did manipulate him into allowing her to get revenge on everyone that wronged her (although not everthing).

 

Because T3 took him there. But he deleted that part of his memory so no one could follow. Or at least said he did. T3 also locked the navi comp so he couldnt be left behind.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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4) For that matter, what's Kreia's whole point for doing everything to begin with? Her explanation that she hates the manipulations of the Force, and that the Exile is beautiful to her because he is a wound / void in the Force was quite clever, but it fails to address certain issues :

 

A) From all I can puzzle together, Nihilus is the exact same thing, a Wound in the Force. Why does she let Nihilus be killed when realistically he is a far greater threat to the Force than the Exile? (because Nihilus could have conceivably killed everyone and everything, thereby extinguishing the Force itself) Merely because the Exile once gave up his Force connection, and Nihilus would never do so? What difference does that make to her?

B) If she hates the Force so much, why does she go back to using it, after it's been stripped away from her?

C) How does her dying at the hands of the Exile at the end rhyme with her stated desire of seeing the Force die? While I understand that it's the Sith way that an apprentice must defeat their Master, Kreia clearly stipulates MANY times throughout the game that she is not a Sith, or at least that that is not what she believes.

I fail to see how her death at the hands of the Exile advances her goal in any way, and is of benefit to herself in any way.

 

5) If Revan has gone beyond the Outer Rim, and only certain individuals, the ones who understand war like Revan and the Exile do, can follow Revan, why is it alluded that T3-M4 knows where Revan is?

 

All in all, it's very disappointing.

 

A) She loves you for beign able to live without hte Force. Nihilus still depends on it, even though he was cut off. And he betrayed her.

 

B) That's why she hates the Force so much. She wants to be free of it, she wants to show that she can live with her own strength, but its like a drug and it controls her. And that's why she hates it and herself.

 

C) This isn't exactly explained ingame, as far as I noticed. But I assume its because, since she was training you the entire game, she wanted to let you destroy the last thing controlling you: Herself. Also, perhaps it was to prove he was not afraid. When she confided that she thought it was fear that made you live to Sion, she sounded very dissapointed. Perhaps it was a test. (well, it was deffinitely a test, but perhaps that was what she was testing)

 

5) The droid's a machine, and he was on the Ebon Hawk when Revan went. Someone needed to be onboard when it came back, after all, and HK 47 was defunct. Plus, this explains how you knew where to go at the end. T3 suddenly comes up after Malachor, plays a video or shows a star map of where Revan went.

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Kreia chooses you because you were able to completely let go of the force and still live, and because of this the force cannot dictate your destiny like it does to every other living thing in the galaxy.

 

Anyway, on another note. I was screwing around with Artis and it seems she has a party icon, as if at one point she was actually a valid party member. Seeing as there is no evidence of it within the sound files, im guessing it was either something very early in development, or a solo mission (which would be very interesting to play, depending on the situation... *points at the posters of Artis vs Nihilus*). The HK-51 models are also still within the game (PC), but they have almost no animations at all. The only difference I could see from HK-50 is that they have blue eyes instead of red-ish orange. Much of the layout information like the 3D level meshes, pathing information, and item information still exists within the game's files, the only thing thats missing is are the rim files. If anyone knows how to generate them from the other information it might be possible to get a simple walk through version of the HK factory completed.

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Hmm, why all the outrage. I can understand that the ending was rather jolted...but some of the endings everyone is clamoring for...sound rather...well...dark.

 

I can understand why Lucasarts/lucasfilm might not want them in their game. In fact I suspect Lucasarts nixed it more than obsidian, but obsidian can't say a word about it due to contractual reasonings.

 

The game is already deep, and to tell the truth, instead of enabling those endings everyone is clamoring about, I'm more interested in the game itself. I'd much rather see them polish up the game after Dantooine in a patch, with some added storyline in that, than a cutscene or two of death and mayhem at the end. I'd like a fuller richer portion, rather than brevity and jerkiness. I'd rather have them patch with a filler for the story in the game itself...and let the endings lie as they are if they make sense and match up with the story behind the scenes.

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Hmm, why all the outrage.  I can understand that the ending was rather jolted...but some of the endings everyone is clamoring for...sound rather...well...dark.

 

... and would you rather have Atton and Kreia holding hands, running through a field of flowers while Sion plays with his new Puppy? Not all the endings were 'dark', and I think all of them are better than the current ending. As someone else said who I can't recall right now, "Its like we're watching Return of the Jedi, and Vader just threw Palpatine down the shaft in the Death Star, and then suddenly the movie ends."

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Hmm, why all the outrage.  I can understand that the ending was rather jolted...but some of the endings everyone is clamoring for...sound rather...well...dark.

 

... and would you rather have Atton and Kreia holding hands, running through a field of flowers while Sion plays with his new Puppy?

Ahem...I do beleive you mean Kath Hound Cub. :wub:


manthing2.jpg

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I think I have a decent idea why they went ahead with Mira being on Malachor.

 

When she first wakes up on Malachor, it's in the valley directly below where the Ebon Hawk had crashed. I always had figured that the exile decided to deal with Kreia alone, and not risk hurting anyone through his influence. Mira just caught on and stowed away. Bao-Dur loads the remote in a ship and sends it after him.

 

The story makes some sense with the exile having decided to go it alone, especially when Kreia reaffirms that he won't be able to travel with companions in the future. Still, I think the game got a little too cryptic at the end. After the Telos redux it crossed the line between thought-provoking and a game of fill in the blanks. The characters deserved more than a two-line prediction of their futures.

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This whole situation is outrageous. If it will not be resolved properly (via content patch or somethnig like that), im end with buying LA games >_<

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Kreia chooses you because you were able to completely let go of the force and still live, and because of this the force cannot dictate your destiny like it does to every other living thing in the galaxy.

 

That


This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.

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*sigh* after finishing kotor2 and reading this thread... at least somehow i was able to find peace with kotor2. thanks for sharing all the information guys and gals, really appreciated it.

 

Especially Korriban and MalachorV were the big disappointment for me. And some of the provided stuff in here proves me, that some other reasons as creative limits led to this "result".

 

As for the one comment about the cut endings being to dark and not fitting in the star wars universe I really like to point towards the EU which features some "darker" stuff all the way and to which this piece of entertainement clearly belongs to.

 

So personally I got a question as well, I once had this cutscene involving GO-TO and the remote, basically GO-TO was destroying it within the Ebone Hawk at the Hyperspace Generator Site. I don't remember anymore when exactly it occured but i believe it happened after you left the first planet after nar-shadaar. What kinda surprised me, was that the destruction of the remote had no explanation and really made no sense, since it was still there afterwards and nobody seemed to care at all. Maybe some additional voiceovers were still there explaining what happened? ^^

 

Ah well.

 

Dig-on ppl :(

 

Cheers

Solo

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So personally I got a question as well, I once had this cutscene involving GO-TO and the remote, basically GO-TO was destroying it within the Ebone Hawk at the Hyperspace Generator Site. I don't remember anymore when exactly it occured but i believe it happened after you left the first planet after nar-shadaar. What kinda surprised me, was that the destruction of the remote had no explanation and really made no sense, since it was still there afterwards and nobody seemed to care at all. Maybe some additional voiceovers were still there explaining what happened?

Yeah I got this after doing Nar Shadda (which was the last planet I had done before the Dantooine Council was available to me) where G0-T0 shocked Remote, and I presumed he had killed him. I went to talk to Bao-dur (but he still said nothing and the only option was to stop talking) and Remote was still flying about. I talked to G0-T0, but he said nothing about the whole incident, and none of it was explained at all... it left me very confused.

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So personally I got a question as well, I once had this cutscene involving GO-TO and the remote, basically GO-TO was destroying it within the Ebone Hawk at the Hyperspace Generator Site. I don't remember anymore when exactly it occured but i believe it happened after you left the first planet after nar-shadaar. What kinda surprised me, was that the destruction of the remote had no explanation and really made no sense, since it was still there afterwards and nobody seemed to care at all. Maybe some additional voiceovers were still there explaining what happened? ^^

 

Ah well.

 

Dig-on ppl :(

 

Cheers

Solo

 

It's a graphic glitch the remote actually slides into the floor if you look closely. What happened is that GOTO ionised the remote and had a dig around inside it. Then he either found its armageddon program and changed it , or did that later.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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i found some stuff where atton tries to kill bao-dur

 

Bao-Dur? That sounds odd.


"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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So personally I got a question as well, I once had this cutscene involving GO-TO and the remote, basically GO-TO was destroying it within the Ebone Hawk at the Hyperspace Generator Site. I don't remember anymore when exactly it occured but i believe it happened after you left the first planet after nar-shadaar. What kinda surprised me, was that the destruction of the remote had no explanation and really made no sense, since it was still there afterwards and nobody seemed to care at all. Maybe some additional voiceovers were still there explaining what happened? ^^

 

Ah well.

 

Dig-on ppl :thumbsup:

 

Cheers

Solo

 

It's a graphic glitch the remote actually slides into the floor if you look closely. What happened is that GOTO ionised the remote and had a dig around inside it. Then he either found its armageddon program and changed it , or did that later.

 

I don't think it is a glitch. When they decided to truncate the endgame, they were able to have Kreia do her exposition to settle most things. However, they couldn't go back and change everything without major programming. The whole Goto incident would have had to been excised. That they had to leave Goto and Remote in the inexplicable ending is one of the more glaring examples of some catastrphic event that occurred just prior to shipping.

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A dark end can be very artistic if delivered nicely. I'd be complaining about how my NPCs died and that there should be a happy ending, but at least I'd have been MOVED by the ending. But since I started complaining about how this ending doesn't fill in the gaps, if they are ever going to patch the game, I'd like to see more ending options, happy or bitter endings, up to the player to decide, or depending on how he played the game, etc etc. Some people owe us a decent patch. I don't even care about the bugs, I managed to finish the game properly without missing much even with the bugs. But for once I want an ending that I have chosen, like NWN:HoTU, BG2: ToB, or just a very nice, rich ending, like FF8. The ending , as it is, plainly sucks. Someone, please get those leftover cut scenes and make a mod :thumbsup:

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